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  1. #1

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    I’ve played for 20 years with a mandolin player. He just plays mandolin, doesn’t do any vocal assistance. I sing everything and accompany myself on guitar. I’m doing probably 70% of the work. Thing is, he’s quite good taking the breaks. He’s weak on rhythm so I can’t do any breaks. If I stop playing the bottom drops out. Problem is...he regularly shows up right at start time and frequently as much as 10-20 min late. Never an apology, never a text or call saying I’m running late. I can’t take it any longer. I’m always punctual and ready to go at the start time. When we need a PA it’s me providing and setting that up. I hate lugging that stuff around. How do you deal with this behavior? Am I wrong to just feel done with this?

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  3. #2

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    I would have been done with that shit after the second time.

    Late for gigs? No gig. Period.
    Jeff Matz, Jazz Guitar:
    http://www.youtube.com/user/jeffreymatz

    "Jazz is like life...it goes on longer than you think, and as soon as you're like 'oh, I get it,' it ends."

    --The Ghost of Duke Ellington

  4. #3

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    Did you every mention that this was bugging you? I ask because maybe the guy is just clueless; E.g. that he has the fairly common misunderstanding that musical performances never should start on time and therefore in his mind being late is no big deal.

    If you have told him before, the next time he is late tell him he is out. If you haven't told him before, bring it up and tell him your expectations.

  5. #4

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    20 years in?

    Sorry, I will never allow a gig partner to make me look bad, and late does that. It's inexcusable.

    Once or twice with a call, fine. Everything with no consideration, sorry, dudes an asshole.
    Jeff Matz, Jazz Guitar:
    http://www.youtube.com/user/jeffreymatz

    "Jazz is like life...it goes on longer than you think, and as soon as you're like 'oh, I get it,' it ends."

    --The Ghost of Duke Ellington

  6. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont View Post
    20 years in?

    Sorry, I will never allow a gig partner to make me look bad, and late does that. It's inexcusable.

    Once or twice with a call, fine. Everything with no consideration, sorry, dudes an asshole.
    I noticed that he had played with the guy for 20 years, which is why I wondered if he ever said anything. If he had said something over those 20 years, and was just ignored, over and over, yea, the dudes an asshole.

    But if the OP didn't say anything, then I'm putting it on the OP; one needs to stress what they expect from a partner and not just assume (like so many girlfriends do, way too often!).

  7. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by mwcarr View Post
    I can’t take it any longer.
    The answer to this situation is obvious to me. Replace him.
    B+
    Frank (aka fep)

  8. #7

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    Yes, he's not a pro, so you don't need him. There are many fish in the sea. Find somebody who sings harmonies, plays 3 instruments, and shows up to help set up and stays to help break down. You life will improve immeasurably.

  9. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by jameslovestal View Post
    I noticed that he had played with the guy for 20 years, which is why I wondered if he ever said anything. If he had said something over those 20 years, and was just ignored, over and over, yea, the dudes an asshole.

    But if the OP didn't say anything, then I'm putting it on the OP; one needs to stress what they expect from a partner and not just assume (like so many girlfriends do, way too often!).
    Well, that's what I'm saying...let it slide for 20 years? Good luck changing anything now.
    Jeff Matz, Jazz Guitar:
    http://www.youtube.com/user/jeffreymatz

    "Jazz is like life...it goes on longer than you think, and as soon as you're like 'oh, I get it,' it ends."

    --The Ghost of Duke Ellington

  10. #9

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    What you accept, you teach.

    If you insist on working with this person, why not give him a 30 minute or hour earlier start time from the actual?

  11. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gitfiddler View Post
    What you accept, you teach.

    If you insist on working with this person, why not give him a 30 minute or hour earlier start time from the actual?
    This is what we do when we invite my wife's Italian relatives over for a gathering. This way they only show up an hour late!

  12. #11

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    Weak on rhythm, never helps, chronically late... for 20 years and the OP was ok with that? Sorry it just doesn't add up. There must be something more than just music in this relationship.

  13. #12

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    Aside from being late, it sounds like he just doesn't take it as seriously (professionally) as you do. Mention to him that it's not as fun as it once was, so he's got some idea, it's been a long running gig afterall, and if he persists, do find a different situation.
    A gig should not be a cause for that kind of anxiety. Just make it clear that his behaviour is the cause of it.

    David

  14. #13

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    He's giving mandolin players a bad rep.
    Pete Martin - just a mandolin guy but loves jazz guitar
    www.PetimarPress.com
    Www.Jazz-Mandolin.com
    Pete Plays Wes free download
    www.jazz-mandolin.com/PetePlaysWes.xht

  15. #14

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    It comes down to how much you like this guy outside of the music relationship. Sometimes friendship has to overlook things that aren't perfect. If friendship with him is important, then I don't have a good answer, because only you can decide if it's strong enough to overlook his behavior. If friendship isn't an issue, then find another gigging partner. That can be hard, but going solo until you do might be less stressful than what you have now. But the bottom line is that strangers on the internet cannot give you advice you can trust.

  16. #15

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    Friendship is a two-way street. I would never consider someone so selfish and irresponsible a friend. Turns out, when I gave up friendship because of bad behavior, I lost very little.

  17. #16

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    Friendship is different for different people, for many different reasons. I would never question someone else's relationship, only my own. Even if I knew their entire history, which I certainly don't in this case, I would never make any judgement about a friendship I wasn't involved in.

  18. #17

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    why dont you arrive after him. see how he handles that pressure.

  19. #18

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    Obviously, you need him for some very important reason that you won't mention, otherwise, you explained how you don't really need him for anything....I don't buy this. Maybe he's been trying to send you a message...

  20. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Durban View Post
    why dont you arrive after him. see how he handles that pressure.
    And lose the gig altogether! Smart.

  21. #20

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    New rules:
    If you’re early, you’re on time.
    If you’re on time, you’re late.
    If you’re late, you’re fired.

  22. #21

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    Need to have a father-son talk.

    Try telling him if he's late, you're going to dock his pay 50%, that if he values the gig he'd better be on time.

    If he screws up again, show him the door.

    In the meantime, look for a replacement.

  23. #22

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    With your wife you can wait for 20 years and maybe even more, but with gig partner one month is enough)

  24. #23

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    I don't think you are wrong. To me it is disrespectful when players are late. Of course there are things that come up but chronically late is different.

    I am sure you will find a player who is punctual and as good or better.

    Good luck to you!

  25. #24
    It's a personality thing. I have this friend, a very active drummer here, we play together often. We 've played gigs where we did the first set drumless cause he arrived on the second. His best was on an island gig where he missed the boat and arrived the next day after the gig ! He does arrive a bit less late with age though!

  26. #25

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    Sometimes you just have to accept tardiness. My wife has been late for just about everything, for all the 40+ years we've been married. But I've come to expect her to be late getting ready, plan accordingly, and I'm not about to end our marriage just because of it. Every relationship is different, though, and I suspect marriages have failed because one or the other spouse was chronically late. Thus I won't criticize any relationship other than my own.

  27. #26

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    I was gigging often with an undependable bassist who showed up when he felt like it. I couldn't stand it anymore, so I offered to pay him, and he hasn't been late since...

  28. #27

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    Start by booking yourself some solo gigs.

    Then try rotating in some different duo partners, including the mandolin player.

    The best duo partnership will eventually reveal itself.

  29. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by KirkP View Post
    New rules:
    If you’re early, you’re on time.
    If you’re on time, you’re late.
    If you’re late, you’re fired.
    ahhh..my auto service shop has the same attitude

    Rates:

    $75 / hour
    225/ if you watch
    650/ if you help
    play well ...
    wolf

  30. #29

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    I worked with a composer guitarist for a couple of years..we would rehearse a couple of hours 4 days a week..if we used his studio..I would usually have to wait for him to show up .. sometime as much as half an hour..we would laugh about it but it became more and more of an issue...I liked his material alot and we even won some open mike contests..

    I realized he was not going to get in gear..I told him I was not going to play with him anymore...he acted like a little kid.."why..what did I do.." routine..I heard he quite playing a month or so later and worked for his dad...

    most serious working musicians (people in all professions) value time..as it reflects other aspects of a persons ability to be responsible ..

    I dated a professional dancer and was always on time for our meetings dinners etc...I wondered if she was aware of that fact..I was late ONCE...ahhh .. so thats what the "riot act" looks like
    play well ...
    wolf

  31. #30

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    Life is too short for this kind of disrespect.

    Go solo

  32. #31

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    mwcarr -

    According to your other posts you've just turned 67 and you described your friend as a 'very competent mandolinist'.

    So have you raised this subject with him? If you asked him, what does he say?

    How old is he? Was he always like this?

    I'd be inclined to replace him too if you were both much younger and the issue had been discussed forthrightly. I suspect at your age you're inclined to be more tolerant and it might be difficult to get another competent and reliable player.

    I think you need to talk to him and find out what's going on.

  33. #32

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    Also, if you don't mind my asking, what are these gigs? Are they at licensed venues like bars, clubs or restaurants? Don't the owner/managers have something to say if you're late?

    Or are we talking local places like old folks homes where nobody really minds if your timing is a bit loose?

    I think we need to know a bit more here.

  34. #33

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    weak on rhythm is the true crime here.......axe him

  35. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by ragman1 View Post
    mwcarr -

    According to your other posts you've just turned 67 and you described your friend as a 'very competent mandolinist'.

    So have you raised this subject with him? If you asked him, what does he say?

    How old is he? Was he always like this?

    I'd be inclined to replace him too if you were both much younger and the issue had been discussed forthrightly. I suspect at your age you're inclined to be more tolerant and it might be difficult to get another competent and reliable player.

    I think you need to talk to him and find out what's going on.
    Yeah , at that age
    "it might be difficult to get another
    competent and reliable player"

    Jesus I've heard it all now

  36. #35

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    You may have heard it all but maybe you didn't read what I said. These are two guys approaching 70 years old. They've known each other for a long time. They're friends. You don't act like you would to a bad employee 'You're fired! Clear your desk and get out!'.

    Like I said, we don't know what music they're playing, or to whom, or where. We don't know if this behaviour is recent or mwcarr has seriously put up with it for 20 years. We don't know very much.

    We also don't know why Mr Carr comes on the internet complaining and doesn't just sort it out in real life. Maybe he's in a quandary because he doesn't want to be unkind to his friend. Maybe if he fired him he'd have nothing much left in life. Maybe we know nothing.

    Get it?

  37. #36

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    Also, of course, maybe I'm quite wrong. But I have a feeling...

  38. #37

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    On the other hand, mwcarr may be a tyrant. He says he does '70% of the work'. Maybe he should take 70% of the money (I jest)!

    He gets the gigs, sets them up, plays and sings it all himself. The other guy can't keep time (but he's also 'very competent') and just does breaks. If mwcarr wants to take a break he can't because 'the bottom drops out of it'. Well, mandolins are a bit like that...

    So now, after 20 years, the organised, go-to, proactive, do-it-all-yourself, guy suddenly gets all dithery and says 'Oh, golly gosh, what am I to do?'.

    So you can see why I'm sceptical of this scenario. There's a l-o-t we don't know. From my view anyway.


    sorry, I'm just suspicious by nature :-)

  39. #38

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    ok sorry for the outburst
    (im just old and cranky)??

  40. #39

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    Oh, you're not alone :-)

    Duo partner chronically late-th-jpg