The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #26
    Respectfully disagree.

    The arranger did a lot of work for Buddy Rich and his arrangements sound great. The arrangements are unusually attentive to the guitar/piano issue and never seem to have anything unplayable for the guitar.

    The question I think it raises is why he put this rather arcane instruction in a chart, given that his charts are generally crystal clear. Perhaps he knew the guitarist who would be playing it, and knew that the guitarist would understand the instruction? Or perhaps he thought big band guitarists would figure it out without too much difficulty -- which is my guess.

    I don't recall what he had the piano doing at that moment in the chart. Next time we play it, I'll make a note.

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  3. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
    Perhaps he knew the guitarist who would be playing it, and knew that the guitarist would understand the instruction?
    Depending on how well he knew the guitar player, it could either be because the guitar player had a bad tendency to FG on every tune .. or they might have had a few beers the night before making fun of guitar players that didn't know any other style and he put it there as an inside joke

  4. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
    The cool part of this is, unsurprisingly, that when you play the charts it sounds brings the music of the past to life. All these rhythms, harmonies and articulations that you don't hear any more.
    I love these old charts, the Thad Jones ones are great. One thing that almost always gets lost in our age of 9.5x11 printers is that charts and music used to be printed on larger paper. When I was at Juilliard we had to bring in charts in the larger size (I forget the dimensions).

    One pet peeve I have about any big band chart is the harmony as written for the rhythm section: it's usually written with the various embellishments and harmonic movement the horns are playing, but too many rhythm section players take that stuff too literally. *not* playing every substitute is part of the sound. Same thing is true of hits for drummers, it's possible to over-interpret those things.

  5. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by pcsanwald
    I love these old charts, the Thad Jones ones are great. One thing that almost always gets lost in our age of 9.5x11 printers is that charts and music used to be printed on larger paper. When I was at Juilliard we had to bring in charts in the larger size (I forget the dimensions).

    One pet peeve I have about any big band chart is the harmony as written for the rhythm section: it's usually written with the various embellishments and harmonic movement the horns are playing, but too many rhythm section players take that stuff too literally. *not* playing every substitute is part of the sound. Same thing is true of hits for drummers, it's possible to over-interpret those things.
    Right. The charts often have chord names with extensions -- and the horns are playing the extensions.

    It usually sounds fine if you can play all the extensions correctly.

    Also, it may sound even better if you play, say, thirds and sevenths, and leave the extensions for the horns. It may create more space and less mud.

    The extensions also tell you what not to play -- so that you don't play a natural 9 against a b9 -- that sort of thing.

  6. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    'Not FG'?

    *furrowed brow*

    Must be a misprint
    not f***ing guitar

  7. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
    Respectfully disagree.

    The arranger did a lot of work for Buddy Rich and his arrangements sound great. The arrangements are unusually attentive to the guitar/piano issue and never seem to have anything unplayable for the guitar.

    The question I think it raises is why he put this rather arcane instruction in a chart, given that his charts are generally crystal clear. Perhaps he knew the guitarist who would be playing it, and knew that the guitarist would understand the instruction? Or perhaps he thought big band guitarists would figure it out without too much difficulty -- which is my guess.

    I don't recall what he had the piano doing at that moment in the chart. Next time we play it, I'll make a note.
    I think i shall stop trying to make this joke.

  8. #32

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    I do a lot of work with a singer and small group, and I do all the arrangements. I've found that highlighters in different colors can be very helpful indicating repeats, segnos, codas, etc., and since I am often dealing with new players and we never rehearse, the layout of the arrangements is, indeed, important. I generally write fairly simple lines, focusing on intros and endings, with rhythmic hits where warranted, and I hire the best jazz-playing readers I can find, because I like to leave room for obligato playing behind the singer. With a piano-bass-drums-guitar-sax line-up, I can get some nice harmonies going by writing diads for the guitar and putting the sax in the lead. I've also incorporated my Roland GR-55 synth for some string pads on ballads and some exotic sounds like steel drums and marimbas and flute sounds for color. Everything is done in Finale, and the charts are in ring binders, generally no more than 2 pages, with a 3 or 4-pager carefully designed for easy page-turns. With good players, this quintet can sound quite large and full.

  9. #33

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    Yes, Christian, it's much too far above his head. He just doesn't get it.

  10. #34

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    I don't think it was really very funny to start off with TBH

  11. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    I don't think it was really very funny to start off with TBH
    It's the thought that counts.

  12. #36
    Some pro arrangers write a chord symbol directly over a horizontal line and another chord symbol underneath.

    Basically, it's like the two hands of the piano. Play the lower chord in the left hand and upper chord in the right.

    For example, I've seen Em7 over Dm7.

    Every time I've seen this, the horns are playing the upper chord, the pianist usually plays both, but if I play the upper one on the guitar it usually sounds bad. Maybe that's because I'm in the register of the horns, but I'm not necessarily voicing the chord the same way.

    It seems to work out better to play the lower chord. But, I haven't seen this often enough to be sure.

    Anybody have any thoughts about this?

    Dropped D tuning and just strum all the open strings while whistling a C?

  13. #37
    Sorry I missed that it was a joke.

    AAs you know, I am a fan of your stuff on here.

  14. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
    It usually sounds fine if you can play all the extensions correctly.

    Also, it may sound even better if you play, say, thirds and sevenths, and leave the extensions for the horns. It may create more space and less mud.
    that's my point: the greatest big band rhythm sections did not play all the extensions/substitutions implied in the horn lines. yet, due to problems in the copy work, many classic nestico charts have tons of chord subs that for example, basie never would have played.

    I have no problem with it for a modern chart if that's the intended sound, but I take issue with it when it's a "classic" big band jazz chart, like a nestico or jones chart.

  15. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
    Some pro arrangers write a chord symbol directly over a horizontal line and another chord symbol underneath.

    Basically, it's like the two hands of the piano. Play the lower chord in the left hand and upper chord in the right.

    For example, I've seen Em7 over Dm7.

    Every time I've seen this, the horns are playing the upper chord, the pianist usually plays both, but if I play the upper one on the guitar it usually sounds bad. Maybe that's because I'm in the register of the horns, but I'm not necessarily voicing the chord the same way.

    It seems to work out better to play the lower chord. But, I haven't seen this often enough to be sure.

    Anybody have any thoughts about this?

    Dropped D tuning and just strum all the open strings while whistling a C?
    When chords are written that way I think the upper chord is just supplying extensions to the lower chord. Generally you want extensions to be near the top. And if horns are playing extensions it’s probably best for the guitar not to.

  16. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
    It was a handwritten part of a handwritten chart.

    I'm convinced it was an instruction not to play 4 to the bar, Freddie Green style. But rather, to comp more sparsely.
    At first glance reading I would have thought "not for guitar." But with that capitalization, you're probably right.

  17. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    Eric Clapton on ukelele
    Hi Eric!