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  1. #1

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    Not specifically, but for example:

    - pianists that are used to playing by themselves and so tend to distance their hands on the keyboard and cover too much space (or too little)

    - bassists who play too "rooty", or are not active or confident enough, or don't know when to "walk"

    - sax, other guitarist, etc. that don't get tritone subs or other things

    - drummers that don't get the importance of their role, don't know they are supposed to know the song form

    ... general things that are well inside their immediate potential, but they don't quite do it yet (the kind of things that visibility would remedy).

    How do you approach these kind of things? Any examples of success?
    "Bent my ear to hear the tune and closed my eyes to see."

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  3. #2
    Usually I don't! People generally don't do something either because they can't, or because they don't want to. Both of these ain't gonna change because someone else is saying something, it is just going to create tensions and a defensive attitude. It is much easier to discuss creative choices than artistic shortcomings. If on a sideman gig just do the best you can, if on a leader one pick the players carefully. For a group of people to play successfully together, you have to create a good vibe, and try to find the strengths of the particular ensemble.

    Not many players can handle an honest criticism of their playing, and usually it is the better ones that can

  4. #3

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    Play with people better than you, so they can tell you what you're doing wrong. I really don't like to play with folks that know even less than me....

  5. #4

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    Yeah I don’t tend to give people feedback unless they specifically ask.

    Reason is - if people seek out feedback they are likely to value it.

    The golden rule for me is to give feedback on how someone plays the way I would like to receive it - specific, not overwhelming, not judgemental and with a way of working on it.

    So not ‘you need to work on your time’ but ‘you could work a little more on the placement of your upbeats, here are some exercises...’

    The thing is different players will hear different things in someone else’s playing and it’s often related to what they themselves work on and are concerned about. There’s no truly objective advice.

    In terms of being given feedback.... beyond lessons and so on, I get things suggested to me at rehearsals for instance, and suggest things.... that feedback is always specific and helpful.

    Feedback on the band stand should usually be something you can action right away, more like band direction - ‘would you mind playing 4 in a bar?’ ‘Turn the guitar up’ Etc

  6. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77 View Post
    Feedback on the band stand should usually be something you can action right away, more like band direction - ‘would you mind playing 4 in a bar?’ ‘Turn the guitar up’ Etc
    Miles to Monk:- "Stroll."

  7. #6

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    People who can’t deal with stuff like that should consider staying in their basement like me
    White belt
    My Youtube

  8. #7

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    Tell them to transcribe. Then suggest they go shopping for better equipment.
    That's what I hear works for a lot of people anyway.

    David

    PS Seriously though? Time, friendly nurturing and knowing people who have a similar aesthetic as you. The cats are cool... but don't expect a miracle if you're bringing one into an equestrian competition.
    Last edited by TH; 04-23-2018 at 10:32 AM.

  9. #8

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    Inreminded me an old anecdote about Shostakovich.

    He was known as extremly polite and shy person who followed strictly formal social conventions except very close friends, but at the same time - as many people of that kind - he was a bit nervous person (though not in agressive form) -actulaly one can see it in the fillming of rehearsals or interview.

    It was a rehearsal of his quartet - and the performers were very famous, who played his music many times.

    one of them approached Shostakovich:

    - Excuse me, Dmitry Dmitrievich (highly respectful form of address in Russian), may I ask you one question?
    - Of course, of course any question...
    - It concerns that place in this movement, I have an idea. Could yo be so kind to listen to it?
    - It's great, I always like when the performers offer their ideas
    - Ok, it says 'forte' here.. but to me it seems it would be better to make it 'piano'
    - It's very interesting... very interesting
    - Piano... like this (playing).. what do you think, Dmitry Dmitrievich?

    - (very politely with no irony) Thank you very much, I think it's a wonderful idea, very very interesting, beautiful idea...
    but (raising his voice almost to shout) I wrote 'forte' - so play forte!
    Last edited by Jonah; 04-24-2018 at 06:07 AM.

  10. #9

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    In professional communities usually do not say things openly... mostly because they want to have good realtionships with everybody and be invited to play to earn money. But they discuss a lot behind the back though...

    I know some situations wehre musicains begin to speak:

    - when they suddenly are in the eviroment where they feel like masters (I recently played with a cellist - first I saw him in group with another well-know leader, and latter he was a leader of amateurish group - it a terrible contrast! and it was actully absolutely fruitless becasue all was about ambition only)

    - when they are independent and have their own groups to play where they feel comfortable and do not need to make friends with everybody

    - amateurs (like me) who have enough BS on daytime job and they do not want more BS in their musical activities...

  11. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonah View Post
    Inreminded me an old anecdote about Shostakovich.

    - (very politely with no irony) Thank you very much, I think it's a wonderful idea, very very interesting, beautiful idea...
    but (raising his voice almost to shout) I wrote 'forte' - so play forte!
    To which he might have responded "And all these years I've been studying to play Piano!" (Dynamics jokes... sorry. Couldn't help it)

    David

  12. #11

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    Thank tou for sharing that story, Jonah! He is my favorite composer. I always appreciate your knowledgable posts
    White belt
    My Youtube

  13. #12

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    For me, it really depends on the person and the situation. For one thing, I don't really feel that I'm accomplished enough to be giving anyone advice. For another thing, giving someone advice in a "live" situation can often throw them off. What I mean by that is if I told someone something at a jam session, they might try to do it right away, and make their playing even worse. Usually at sessions and casual things, I don't say anything.

    With my own ensemble, it's a little different. I've been having an ongoing negotiation with the pianist about comping. He's agreed in principle that we'll alternate soloists, but he has the hardest time keeping his hands off the keyboard. In that situation, I'll be a little more blunt than I might otherwise.
    "I'm opposed to picketing, but I don't know to show it." --Mitch Hedberg

  14. #13
    Wow. Music is very personal anyway , but musicians tend toward more sensitivity generally in my experience. Communication can be difficult, especially if your communication style is different.

    I've worked with kids for years and still play on weekly basis IN groups with pretty young players, high school to college in a band setting. Honestly, you can make major improvements with a couple of simple comments, but they have to be made the right way. Easier if you're the adult, but the same principles apply with the adults I work with as well. The communication aspect really is about 99% of it.

    1. Direct your comments toward CONCRETE, actionable strategies or techniques.

    "You're overplaying " or " Could you just not play so much?" Probably aren't going to go as far as talking about space and how to shape phrases and sections with space etc, or about "saving some for the important section". One comment is corrected at an indirect third-party concept, and the other is far more personally about the PLAYER. May seem subtle but it makes huge difference.

    2. Sell them adding POSITIVE aspects, rather than working so much on removing negative aspects.

    Recordings or personal playing examples go a long way toward this. As far as playing an example yourself, it can go a long way toward defusing the tension in the first place , because you can begin conversation with "I mean, I'm not a drummer, but on guitar, SPACE at the end of the section looks like this". Showing someone something cool from a recording or from an example isn't really something to get defensive about. Again, you're ADDING something, not just removing something from "their style" or whatever.

    3. Know what the actual problem is.

    This one is difficult and requires some experience maybe, but most of the time the problem is not the problem. It's simply caused by something else which is the real problem. "Careful, those eighth notes want to rush" or "Smaller is faster " took some time to come too, but they both save tons of time and avoid defensiveness in rehearsal.

    Again, I can give a quick example of how I can pick faster on the guitar by keeping the motion small for a drummer who is playing too big on sixteenths and dragging the tempo down. (You can also use the reverse in sections where it's rushing. A mechanical fix is faster and emotionally easier to suggest than working on general "time discipline".)

    Most "musical" problems have a root in something technical.

    4. Choose your battles.

    Don't use up your "budget" of improvement goals on something less important. Most people can only emotionally deal with about one flaw at a time without getting but hurt, probably not even one. Human nature. The Problem, honestly, can't be JUST EVERYTHING.

    What's the one thing that could make everything better?

    Anyway, my experience is mostly non-jazz settings, so sorry if it's out of place. Personally, I think these are more universal communication issues . This is from band stand experience with players of all ages, but mostly other styles. I'll delete it or whatever it's inappropriate.

  15. #14

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    At a jam among strangers, I wouldn't say anything. Among people I know, in rehearsals or similar contexts, I try to express it in terms of "we" rather than "you" --e.g., "we don't seem to be locked rhythmically; here's the tempo (tap tap tap tap) ; let's all try to be on it" rather than "you're rushing." Or "let's figure out some voicings or comping ideas that work better together because I think we might be stepping on each other a bit." You have to be open to the possibility that it's not them, it's you, and you have to read the personalities of people you're with. Some take constructive criticism better than others, and you have to adjust your approach accordingly, as is the case in all endeavors.

    John

  16. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo View Post
    Play with people better than you, so they can tell you what you're doing wrong. I really don't like to play with folks that know even less than me....
    So you want to play with people that are better than you so you can learn from them but don't appear willing to reciprocate.

    Ok, I admit I also prefer to play with those better then myself but it order to avoid cosmic gumbo, I willingly play with those that need help hoping that this creates good karma that will someday be returned.

  17. #16

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    Different situations play out differently. If you are joining a band, and you are part of that band for a long term, Im sure the leader or older member will address any points that needed to ne addressed. How? Depends on personalities and dynamics.

    OTOH, if you are freelancing, on call jazz musician, or if you are the leader booking someone for a one off gig.. People usually dont criticize or giving suggestions. If they like what they hear, they call you again, if not, they move on to someone else. I know, its brutal out there ans unfair. I try not to be that guy!

  18. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by joe2758 View Post
    Thank tou for sharing that story, Jonah! He is my favorite composer. I always appreciate your knowledgable posts
    I like Shostakovich too. My favourite story is the one where he was summoned for questioning by the police, then after a time sent back home for the weekend with orders to return on Monday. As this usually meant a “one-way trip” was coming, he spent a terrified weekend with a suitcase packed in readiness.

    When he went back on Monday, nobody knew why he was there, and it turned out that his interrogator of the previous week had himself been taken away for “questioning”. So they told him to go home and forget about it.

  19. #18

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    I have learned, painfully, that I'm not very good at telling others what to do, or not do.

    When I have tried, in the distant past, I was likely to piss somebody off with no improvement in the music.

    It may be that I knew less than I thought. Or didn't communicate well. Or something.

    Now, if I feel strongly about something, I usually remind myself not to speak. When I do speak, I might say something like "we're not locked". Or, "could you humor me and try this once without X". Or, "lets try this starting with bass and drums and add one instrument at a time".

    There are people who are better at doing this.

  20. #19

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    I don't really like making suggestions, even as a band-leader, unless it's an original number or if another musician isn't hitting a crucial part. Outside those instances, I much prefer to simply say, "Man, I loved that part you played here, that sounded great." I guess for me it's a matter of focusing on the good rather than the slop.

    Of course, rehearsing for a gig is a different story, especially playing rock covers.

    Quote Originally Posted by jameslovestal View Post
    So you want to play with people that are better than you so you can learn from them but don't appear willing to reciprocate.

    Ok, I admit I also prefer to play with those better then myself but it order to avoid cosmic gumbo, I willingly play with those that need help hoping that this creates good karma that will someday be returned.
    I used to host a monthly jam session in my backyard in SoCal, acoustic-only, I'll do the barbecue, bring your old lady, kids, and favorite beer. Had from three to five local guys who'd show up. I'd been playing 30 years at the time, my neighbor about 18, and the other ranged down from ten years to a guy named Rob with six months. There were only two rules, really: Everyone gets a turn, and don't be a dick.

    Even at thirty years on the neck, I found myself learning a lot, even from Rob, who was more a singer/songwriter than accomplished at lead (obviously). If nothing else, I learnt to play slide competently, because that's how I was able to sit in the mix well. The karma was pretty much instant for me, once I figured I should open my ears, y'know?

  21. #20

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    Sometimes you need to be tough for the sake of the music.


  22. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by joe2758 View Post
    Thank tou for sharing that story, Jonah! He is my favorite composer. I always appreciate your knowledgable posts
    Thanks.

    I actually have a few books about him... when I was about 20 I was really in his music (and from experience there's always a chance to come back to it).
    Besides I am Russian who grew up St.Petersburg - so if you have the least interest in classical music here you just cannot pass by Shistakovich, he is everywhere that is music related.
    It's interesting that his influence at the beginning was very moving and put local compositional school at the front line of music... and later after his death it absolutely ruined compositional education here)))
    Partly because he was idolized and his students took over the leading position in education here, partly because he was very academic in concern of musical form. His innovations were in other areas but his forms and orchestrations are actually absolutely in Beethoveen's vein.

    Sometimes it is even impossible to read local books about him becasue he is often idolized to unbearbale extent. He became (or rather was used) as an offcial figuer even during his life.

    Besides there are lots of things in his music that - it seems - have special meaning for Russians... he understood music as very meaningful language (as I do actually) and he put a lot of things in it that sometimes have literal meanings.
    I noticed that foreigners take his music often more abstractly where I feel it as very painful.. I feel like he has heavy burden on his shoulders all the time.

    It is also interesting that being very reserved person he had very good sense humour, like company (and even a good drink in a good company) and he was a big fan of football.


    I have a friend who actually wrote a big book about many other Soviet symphonic composer who satyed almost unknown (and still are unknown now) and some of them are actully very gifted. While he was writing he worked in the archives and sent me the records of score taht he found the most interesing (he himself is the most gifted composer of our time I believe - from those that I heard at least).
    Recently they began to perform Alexander Lokshin who was fantastic composer but was both ignored by officials and underground due to some doubtful story. His son has been trying to bring his music back to audience.

    I do not want to derail this thread... but if you are interested you could make another thread - where i can share some other thngs about Shostakovich, his music, history around it and other music from the period in Russia.

  23. #22

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    How about PULEEEZZ, TURN DOWN!!
    -- Isn't it crazy that "archtop" and "luthier" are spelling errors on this forum?

  24. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonah View Post

    I do not want to derail this thread... but if you are interested you could make another thread - where i can share some other thngs about Shostakovich, his music, history around it and other music from the period in Russia.
    Made one in “other styles.” Can’t wait to learn more
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  25. #24

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    Playing music can be so personal. It is hard to take criticism for anything that is not easy to change or change quickly. Such as, "your time isn't solid you need to work with a metronome", or even worse to a singer, "your pitch is off, you're often flat".

    The musician probably already knows that they have these problems.

    I think a better approach would be to record a rehearsal or performance and share it with the band-mates. That out of pitch singer will definitely hear it.
    B+
    Frank (aka fep)

  26. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by fep View Post
    Playing music can be so personal. It is hard to take criticism for anything that is not easy to change or change quickly. Such as, "your time isn't solid you need to work with a metronome", or even worse to a singer, "your pitch is off, you're often flat".

    The musician probably already knows that they have these problems.

    I think a better approach would be to record a rehearsal or performance and share it with the band-mates. That out of pitch singer will definitely hear it.
    Tape is the toughest taskmaster.

  27. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar View Post
    Now, if I feel strongly about something, I usually remind myself not to speak. When I do speak, I might say something like "we're not locked". Or, "could you humor me and try this once without X". Or, "lets try this starting with bass and drums and add one instrument at a time".
    This (the "let's try this...") approach is as close to success as I've known... it feels more like "fixing a song" than "fixing a musician". Sometimes after improving a few songs it quietly sneaks in and the musician improves.
    "Bent my ear to hear the tune and closed my eyes to see."

  28. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by pauln View Post
    This (the "let's try this...") approach is as close to success as I've known... it feels more like "fixing a song" than "fixing a musician". Sometimes after improving a few songs it quietly sneaks in and the musician improves.
    Exactly, Paul. When we focus on the song, we don't take critiques personally, because the roughest are usually our own critiques of our own playing. Personalizing critique is what brings dissension into the mix ... and discord doesn't work well with music.

  29. #28

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    The leader of my big band is not at all reticent about telling any or all of us that we are: not playing well, off pitch, not together, speeding up/down, too loud/soft, too bright/dark, too busy/sparse or any other defect he hears. He is usually, but not always, right and we usually, but not always, sound better after he tells us. Sometimes someone discusses it further with him. No one takes umbrage--our first drummer used to and he was replaced after not very long because of this.

    Over the years when I've lead small groups, I would feel free to ask the members to play the way I wanted them to. Usually I did that about specific parts in songs and/or arrangements--if I had to tell them how to play, I'd look for other players. However, leading a small group is far different from leading a big band, which is why I don't do the latter.

    Danny W.

  30. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by fep View Post
    P

    That out of pitch singer will definitely hear it.
    Hahahaha oh man, i wish that was true, i really do!

  31. #30

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    A a leader, I give each new player general guidelines. The better the player, the more they appreciate a "philosophy", such as keeping a slight edge on the rhythm for drummers and bassists, giving a pianist guidelines for range when the guitar is important, and asking the soloists to try to stay somewhat close to the style of the tune. Again, the better the players, the more cooperation I tend to see. Watching Jim Hall give instructions during a tune was a great lesson: "Pedal on A", "fugue", "free", etc.

    The leadership role can be difficult, but a strong leader who's a good musician can really make a big difference. I found that being the oldest of 9 kids was great training for running a band.

  32. #31

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    I play with a big band, too. It's mostly a rehearsal, amateur thing with occasional gigs. Players range from high school to near-retirees. Nobody takes it too seriously, but we do work on charts. If the time is off the leader will flag it, or if a section has a rough patch we'll go over it. We'll go around to each section, ask how that went, and people speak up on what they hear or struggle with.

    I play trumpet probably 3/4s of the time, but we're lacking in rhythm section right now, so I play guitar when the other guy can't make it.
    Playing solo guitar a lot, my time can get lazy, but when I have to drive sax and trombone sections along with a vocalist, I really have to lock in four-to-the-bar. Last week I brought a Tele instead of an archtop, and the leader asked me to cut back the reverb and dark tone to get a clearer, more percussive sound- a very fair comment, and I twisted a couple of knobs.

    So it's not the same thing as a small group or jam session where it might be awkward or less structured musically- the discipline needed for a larger group to play charts requires you check your ego and play your part right.

  33. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by ronjazz View Post
    ...the better the players, the more cooperation I tend to see.
    That is very true. Which is one reason why many beginners just don't get better or never learn to do the things they should learn to do. Pianists who comp incessantly on 1 and 3, I'm looking at you...

  34. #33

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    If I'm in a band with that many guys with that many issues it might be time for a new band.

  35. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by dallasblues View Post
    If I'm in a band with that many guys with that many issues it might be time for a new band.
    One of the reasons I was content to finish my performing career as a free-lance fill-in/sub was the realization that all bands have these issues to one degree or another. As a baked-in temp, I didn't have to worry much about the office politics. I found it liberating.
    Best regards, k

  36. #35

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    For the most part I don’t. Other than to tell someone how much I love their playing, I never criticize someone’s playing, ever. Not online, not in person, not behind their backs. One time, with a bassist, who always skips, instead of walks, I asked him to do more walking than skipping. I don’t know how that went over. I don’t think I’ve talked to him since.

    Great players play. In the studio or at a rehearsal playing in my own band or my own music, I instruct how I want a certain piece played, but I won’t criticize their playing in general. I rely on their expertise, otherwise I wouldn’t hire them.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  37. #36

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    ^^^
    I've got a visual image in my head of Charles Mingus "skipping" down the sidewalk. My wife wants to know what the hell I'm laughing at.
    Ignorance is agony.



  38. #37

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    If they're good, I laude them.

    If they're not good, they're still better than I so I hold my piece.

  39. #38

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    My personal rules:

    Unless in a case of emergency...

    - Never ever criticize on the band stand/on stage/in pit.
    - Never on the same day. (Least of all at the hotel bar under some influence)

    In rehearsals: Don't criticize, suggest better/preferred way of doing/playing...

    Praise, compliment often, say it, not just hint it. People change for getting more of that.

    Don't be Miles, you aren't.


    just my 2c.

    --- The ultimate answer to almost all guitar questions: "Practice more!" ---

  40. #39

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    Agree with much of what has been said but at the same time, you have to be honest and vocal about things (while remaining tactful). If you're soloing and someone is comping with every challenging rhythmic figure and chord sub they know, you need to let them know to lighten up if you want more space for yourself. I played with a sax player who would on rare occasions play sweet little melodic guide tone lines, really filled in the harmony (when there was none) so I told him "sounds great when you do that, please do it more often". I think a lot of bass players don't really like it when they get no comp at all with their solo, nothing wrong with saying "hey, gimme a little support".
    Ignorance is agony.



  41. #40

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    With my main jam partner (a bassist), if I’d like him to change something about his comping I might ask him to “try this.” If it works for me, I’ll let him know I like it. More often than not, he’ll do something a little different with it to make it even better.
    The “try this” approach seems easier on the ego that “I don’t like that.” It also helps to frequently let your partner know how much you enjoy their playing. If you don’t, maybe they’re not the best partner.

  42. #41

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    It's a tricky matter and everyone is different. On the one hand, you don't want to hurt someone's feelings or damage relationships. On the other hand, if someone is not happy with your playing or your approach - or vice versa if you feel that way about someone else - then eventually you'll probably stop playing together.

  43. #42

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    I don't feel it's my place to critique another's playing - they can play or they can't. If you don't like it, don't play with them anymore. I don't work with people to educate them - not my job.

  44. #43

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    As a general rule, there's not a strong tradition of verbal feedback in the jazz community, outside of educational settings. I've very rarely seen professional players give each other any kind of feedback, other than not calling each other for gigs anymore.

    As someone who's spent my life learning this music, this used to really frustrate me, but now I understand it a little better. I could have learned a lot early on from some honest feedback on the bandstand in terms of what I had together, and what I didn't. I've always welcomed criticism and felt it was helpful, but, I've also come to realize that many people don't take criticism well, particularly as they get older, and particularly if the criticism is fundamental.

    my experience has been that when you do have it together, people will call you for gigs, and when you don't, they won't. In my experience, getting called back for a gig is probably the most consistent feedback mechanism we have.

  45. #44

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    A guitarist friend of mine told me he played with a sax player, who always called girl from Ipenema, but always played it wrong. My friend would tell him "that would be a good song to learn".
    Last edited by plasticpigeon; 06-24-2018 at 04:06 PM.

  46. #45

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    I think it's important and valuable to give younger or less-experienced players feedback, after all, how does one improve except by working with and listening to the more experienced and expert players? Of course, that input should probably be limited to times when you're the leader, or if someone asked for input. And if you are the leader, and have a style you've developed, it's very important to let the sidemen you hired know what you're looking for, but that's better done during the hiring phase than during the gig.

  47. #46

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    A piano player friend of mine was just telling me the other day that he was listening to a fellow pianist at a gig go crazy on the piano playing as fast as he could, 16th notes, 32nd notes that seemed to have no relation to the tune.
    He told him, "Bob, when you play a solo, you're supposed to play some notes that are in the chords you're improvising on. You sound like you're just playing all wrong notes."

    The guy just said something like, "Oh, yeah".

  48. #47

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    yea... good subject... never on stage as many have posted... If I'm at gig and the leader or player who's gig is it... does something stupid on stage... I take notice.... if it happens again, I'm always already booked.

    But a pretty simple approach is to have brief discussion about the tune up front... form, head arrangement and style... any interludes or arrangement details.

    When I call tunes or It's my gig... I usually have books, or verbal details how I would like to play the tune.... and always say.... I'm open for more etc... generally the days of 6 night gigs and even weekends without contracts, or agents aren't that common... unless you'll cover the shit later... Bars and lobbies etc... There are still lots of regular gigs where there is a core of musicians who cover etc... Those tend to be pretty open for arrangements etc... and like I said above... If there is a good audience that keeps coming.... they usually are coming for a reason(s).... need to be able to read the audience and keep them wanting more(come back)... Some musicians just think of their playing... others (like me)... want to make other players play their best etc... I know it's BSish... But it keeps music enjoyable ...

  49. #48

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    Variety is the spice of life...

  50. #49

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    I play at a casual coffee house type gig with a sax player who more often that I’d like comes in with the melody at the wrong time in the wrong place,like a beat or two even a bar or two, after his solo and so far the band has been rescuing him without him knowing it.
    Most everyone is reading charts, I’m the only one playing entirely from memory and yes I make mistakes, and while I may only very occasionally screw up during my solo like stop playing after the first half of a tune like Weaver of Dreams or some tune where the second half is a lot like the first,this doesn’t necessarily make the band look bad, just me.
    I think at rehearsal I should be able to ask any of them them to please toss me a bone and say something like, “second half”, or “keep going”. But when you have your nose in a chart sometimes you often can’t be bothered with your bandmate’s problem I suppose and that’s also unfortunate.
    Rhythm sections can be ruthless or ungiving and other players can be oblivious.
    In the case of the sax player should the rhythm section stick to their guns, stay on form, until the sax player
    ( and melody player)realizes he’s off, or should we continue to cover for him (at the expense sounding wrong) by lerching ahead to catch up with him?
    I don’t know if mentioning this to him off the stand will just offend or help him better look at the problem either.
    I would like to know what the consensus is on proper dealing with these issues .....ask for a little support if I falter?
    And, cover for the out of place sax or keep going on in the right place ( knowing we all sound not so good either way).
    Maybe the answer is don’t play in public with this act but this is small town stuff not the Grammys.
    Should we just suck it up for morale or, say hey, can you like, play better? Jusy kidding ....... maybe.
    Whatever helps us improve really is the goal here.

  51. #50

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    If I'm ignorantly playing a song/songs wrong regularly, I pray a bandmate would let me know!