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  1. #1

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    Neat video addressing some big questions


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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2

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    This guy got his degrees and now he makes videos because there's no gigs. I wonder about taking career advice from these kind of guys.

  4. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo View Post
    This guy got his degrees and now he makes videos because there's no gigs. I wonder about taking career advice from these kind of guys.
    hahahaha

    cheers

  5. #4
    I didn't understand the video. All the things he talks about are taught and talked about at music schools, he even acknowledges it himself after mentioning each one. It seems to be more about his personal effort of understanding things in music.. or in YouTube
    Last edited by Alter; 04-11-2018 at 05:07 AM.

  6. #5

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    I think it is impossible to learn talent in the music school...

  7. #6

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    He said 'Berklee funk'.

  8. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevebol View Post
    He said 'Berklee funk'.
    oxymoron?
    Jeff Matz, Jazz Guitar:
    http://www.youtube.com/user/jeffreymatz

    "Jazz is like life...it goes on longer than you think, and as soon as you're like 'oh, I get it,' it ends."

    --The Ghost of Duke Ellington

  9. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont View Post
    oxymoron?
    Depends what you mean by "funk". Weed is legal in this state. Take a walk down Mass Ave and you'll see.
    "I'm opposed to picketing, but I don't know to show it." --Mitch Hedberg

  10. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boston Joe View Post
    Depends what you mean by "funk". Weed is legal in this state. Take a walk down Mass Ave and you'll see.
    Or rather, smell.
    "I'm opposed to picketing, but I don't know to show it." --Mitch Hedberg

  11. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevebol View Post
    He said 'Berklee funk'.
    Buddy rich used to call it "that Berklee shit."
    -- Isn't it crazy that "archtop" and "luthier" are spelling errors on this forum?

  12. #11

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    The fine line between "funky shit" and "shitty funk."
    Jeff Matz, Jazz Guitar:
    http://www.youtube.com/user/jeffreymatz

    "Jazz is like life...it goes on longer than you think, and as soon as you're like 'oh, I get it,' it ends."

    --The Ghost of Duke Ellington

  13. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont View Post
    The fine line between "funky shit" and "shitty funk."
    That's starting to sound like a George Carlin routine.
    "I'm opposed to picketing, but I don't know to show it." --Mitch Hedberg

  14. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo View Post
    This guy got his degrees and now he makes videos because there's no gigs. I wonder about taking career advice from these kind of guys.
    Haha, I’ve often thought that....

    Actually I suspect Neely makes a pretty decent income from YouTube.

    Pretty much every young musician seems to know who he is... they don’t know who Wayne Krantz is...

  15. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boston Joe View Post
    Depends what you mean by "funk". Weed is legal in this state. Take a walk down Mass Ave and you'll see.
    I didn't know MA went full legal. Welcome to civilization!

  16. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo View Post
    This guy got his degrees and now he makes videos because there's no gigs. I wonder about taking career advice from these kind of guys.
    He makes videos as well as playing gigs, and does a whole bunch of other stuff by the looks of it. Why not take advice from a busy working pro living in the epicenter of the craft?

  17. #16

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    Just to be clear: Adam’s a highly motivated musician and self starter that I respect a lot. He’s also a very skilled player. As everyone in NYC has to be... and whatever he does -
    He does his homework.

    I’m a massive music nerd of course and I’m consistently impressed by how accurate his info is.

    He might not be playing jazz gigs at the Vanguard (I mean who is?) but he is out there doing interesting projects and clearly understands the potential of new technology and YouTube etc.

    I’m always happy and interested to hear what he has to say.

  18. #17

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    It would be unprofessional to show examples of this....

    Then he shows a picture of Scofield.

    I didn't know Berklee funk was a thing.
    It doesn't have the charm of the old stuff?
    Drugs.

  19. #18

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    I thought he was going to give me a bass lesson in the end. I bet if he had a nice teaching gig at one of those fine NYC music school he wouldn't be making this video. We need to support music schools and encourage youngsters to spread the beauty of music, not lament at how much it sucks for young musicians. This will only discourage serious and talented musicians to pursue music in school, making matters even worst for the music industry.
    "If I don't practice for a day, I know it... for two days, the critics know it... three days, the public knows it." -- Louis Armstrong

  20. #19

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    A lot of sour grapes there, methinks. We're blaming the schools for the sorry state of the live music marketplace? Look to society and disruptive technology first, kids.

    Accredited 4-year colleges have high standards. They have no choice. They have to keep the bar high, and that principle stands even if the school is fully aware that a musician may make his/her living playing crappy pop fluff for teenyboppers, party animals, and drunks. For a little perspective, the state of the market that the youtube personality describes has its roots in the late 1950s. If one needs to blame someone then they can blame Chuck Berry, Bill Haley and The Comets, Elvis, The Beatles, on and on.

    If the young musicians goal is "learn how to be the kind of musician who can memorize a hundred lame pop songs and sound like a live jukebox" - then a 4-year college is not the place. A trade school or even private school - non-credit - is the place for that. School of Rock anyone? You get what you pay for, so what do you want?

    One would think that such a smart young person with level-headed parents would take stock of all of that before earning both bachelors and masters degrees from two very expensive private schools like Berklee and The Manhattan School of Music. That's a massive commitment to artful music.

    So, it sounds to me like we're just a little bit pissed about our school debt and the harsh reality of the live music marketplace and we need to blame others, not ourselves. Again, the state of the market did not arrive yesterday.

    It's not about me, but my personal experience is that I was a music major decades ago, at the top of my class (not saying I didn't have a long way to go, I did have a long way to go). I took stock of the market and decided to change to something............ which the marketplace demanded. I had to use my head instead of my heart. Like the saying goes, "life is hard, and it's even harder when you're stupid".
    Last edited by Jazzstdnt; 04-20-2018 at 01:00 AM.

  21. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Jazzstdnt View Post
    my personal experience is that I was a music major decades ago".
    With all due respect, I'm not sure you're his audience.

  22. #21

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    Just out of curiosity how much does 4 years at Berklee and 2 (I guess) at MSM cost not including living expenses etc. $300,000 plus?

  23. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jazzstdnt View Post
    A lot of sour grapes there, methinks. We're blaming the schools for the sorry state of the live music marketplace? Look to society and disruptive technology first, kids.

    Accredited 4-year colleges have high standards. They have no choice. They have to keep the bar high, and that principle stands even if the school is fully aware that a musician may make his/her living playing crappy pop fluff for teenyboppers, party animals, and drunks. For a little perspective, the state of the market that the youtube personality describes has its roots in the late 1950s. If one needs to blame someone then they can blame Chuck Berry, Bill Haley and The Comets, Elvis, The Beatles, on and on.

    If the young musicians goal is "learn how to be the kind of musician who can memorize a hundred lame pop songs and sound like a live jukebox" - then a 4-year college is not the place. A trade school or even private school - non-credit - is the place for that. School of Rock anyone? You get what you pay for, so what do you want?

    One would think that such a smart young person with level-headed parents would take stock of all of that before earning both bachelors and masters degrees from two very expensive private schools like Berklee and The Manhattan School of Music. That's a massive commitment to artful music.

    So, it sounds to me like we're just a little bit pissed about our school debt and the harsh reality of the live music marketplace and we need to blame others, not ourselves. Again, the state of the market did not arrive yesterday.

    It's not about me, but my personal experience is that I was a music major decades ago, at the top of my class (not saying I didn't have a long way to go, I did have a long way to go). I took stock of the market and decided to change to something............ which the marketplace demanded. I had to use my head instead of my heart. Like the saying goes, "life is hard, and it's even harder when you're stupid".
    Actually, it is.

  24. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by mrcee View Post
    Just out of curiosity how much does 4 years at Berklee and 2 (I guess) at MSM cost not including living expenses etc. $300,000 plus?
    Those things are published in US News and World Report (or is it Business Week?) annually. Schools should have their tuition & fees on their websites, but I'm not sure that every school does. It's not always that easy to find.


    Your figure seems to be about right for the undergrad, or it could be closer to $400K.

  25. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by andrew42 View Post
    With all due respect, I'm not sure you're his audience.

    I know but the story is the same. You should have heard the things some of my instructors and professors said about the market and the, uh, wealth building possibilities for musicians, back then. Just like today, they taught, they gigged, they scuffled.

    I have attended a number of music schools and colleges on both coasts and in flyover country. I currently attend Berklee Online, off and on. It's fun. It's not perfect but I'm very grateful that it's there! There is nothing quite like Berkee and there never has been.

    At Berklee I have encountered a number of top notch teachers/playing pros. They have ALL been frank and honest about the music scene, yet they still teach music with depth and high artistic standards. Students grouse too. Berklee has a number of courses about the music biz and how to make it these days, etc., etc., etc.

    One would really have to live under a rock not to hear the sobering characterization about "the scene" (or lack thereof). So maybe we're building a rock (of denial) to live under. Young students are idealistic and tell themselves - "that won't apply to me". They choose not to listen. Where some are concerned, that's a great thing. But for most...

  26. #25

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    Play funk like you mean it. Tell the club to buy bottles of whiskey for $300 and sell if for $800. Wealthy people buy the whole bottle when they buy you a drink. Then the club saves the bottle for them.
    The $500 profit goes to musicians and other employees.

  27. #26

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    I don't quite follow, Steve. lol

  28. #27

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    Learn jazz
    ....
    Profit

    The business model is perfectly simple!

  29. #28

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    Why do you need a degree in music?

    Universities and colleges are big money businesses that simply care about selling more and more degrees. Look at the billboards targeting youth... "Do you want to design aircraft?", "Do you want to be a fashion designer?", "Do you want to be a DJ?"... like are you f*cking kidding me?! There's a ticket you can buy to be some superstar? Sign me up!

    Sorry, it clearly bothers me.

  30. #29

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    As a teacher of undergraduate and school age budding musicians, I find it hard to advise anyone on the business side of things (aside from - “here’s my life story, make all the opposite decisions to me”) because the tech is really in flux.

    For instance, You Tube is obviously a big deal. We’ve had Snarky, Knower, vulfpeck etc using the platform to launch their careers.

    Neely’s been on YouTube almost ten years, and has built up and refined his channel in the last few, but making a living on YT may no longer be an option for younger people - we’ve had adpocalypse etc and the platform is obviously a private one meaning the business owners are really at liberty to move the goal posts as they wish.

    From my own point of view, I thought I’d start a YT channel as a bit of a hobby, just to see. What I get is lots of comments going basically ‘good content but not very well produced.’

    The pressure to conform to high production standards which basically mean you’d have to be a full time pro (like Neely or Beato) is pretty strong now. YT is rapidly becoming a career in its own right.

    In Beatos case it’s interesting - he had his career, and this is clearly a way to make up the shortfall as bookings drop off due to the changes in tech and the business.

  31. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by p1p View Post
    Why do you need a degree in music?

    Universities and colleges are big money businesses that simply care about selling more and more degrees. Look at the billboards targeting youth... "Do you want to design aircraft?", "Do you want to be a fashion designer?", "Do you want to be a DJ?"... like are you f*cking kidding me?! There's a ticket you can buy to be some superstar? Sign me up!

    Sorry, it clearly bothers me.
    It’s helpful to have a degree in music if you want a teaching job. Not having a degree from a top college is a good reason for someone to discard your cv from the many they will receive.

    However, personal networks remain the best way to get a gig. Obviously.

    That’s the way I get my work. While i have no music degree I am specifically qualified as a music educator (thanks to a Yamaha bursary via the late lamented Jazz Services UK) but I am under no illusions that a Royal Academy graduate in performance wouldn’t be favoured every time in a cold application, even though a performance degree has no actual bearing on someone’s teaching. That’s just life....

    People don’t look at what you studied - just where you went.

    I would advise anyone to think carefully before getting a music degree. TBH
    in the UK I’d suggest they go to continent* and study for free, unless they can get a scholarship to the US colleges or are trust fund babies.

    I’ll add it’s really obvious to me at undergrad level which players are going to have a career playing to some extent and who will maybe end up doing something else. It’s not just talent.

    *we’ll see how Brexit affects that...
    Last edited by christianm77; 04-20-2018 at 01:42 PM.

  32. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77 View Post

    However, personal networks remain the best way to get a gig. Obviously.
    Music aside, this is it. It’s also how you can get in with learning from the best. I can’t say I’ve been lucky that way with music yet, but from my other career(s), my first at a particularly high, competitive level.

  33. #32

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    Not sure why he felt the need to call out Juilliard at the end as being specifically not valuable. The classical and jazz programs there are very different, if he's talking about the jazz program, one reason is that it's a very small program. And if he's talking classical, that's apples and oranges for someplace like Berklee, especially as classical folks working orchestral jobs generally will move after school.

  34. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Jazzstdnt View Post
    I know but the story is the same. You should have heard the things some of my instructors and professors said about the market and the, uh, wealth building possibilities for musicians, back then. Just like today, they taught, they gigged, they scuffled.

    I have attended a number of music schools and colleges on both coasts and in flyover country. I currently attend Berklee Online, off and on. It's fun. It's not perfect but I'm very grateful that it's there! There is nothing quite like Berkee and there never has been.

    At Berklee I have encountered a number of top notch teachers/playing pros. They have ALL been frank and honest about the music scene, yet they still teach music with depth and high artistic standards. Students grouse too. Berklee has a number of courses about the music biz and how to make it these days, etc., etc., etc.

    One would really have to live under a rock not to hear the sobering characterization about "the scene" (or lack thereof). So maybe we're building a rock (of denial) to live under. Young students are idealistic and tell themselves - "that won't apply to me". They choose not to listen. Where some are concerned, that's a great thing. But for most...
    Good points. Again, while his POV is certainly not a revelation for many of us, I feel this is directed at the "It'll be different for me" crowd ie. Younger players/students

  35. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by andrew42 View Post
    Good points. Again, while his POV is certainly not a revelation for many of us, I feel this is directed at the "It'll be different for me" crowd ie. Younger players/students
    I get the impression that a sizeable fraction of Adams viewers are teenagers.

  36. #35

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    I like both kinds of music, college music and blues.

  37. #36

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    Last edited by Stevebol; 04-21-2018 at 05:40 AM.

  38. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevebol View Post
    To paraphrase Ricky Nelson, I would definitely rather drive a truck.

  39. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by mrcee View Post
    To paraphrase Ricky Nelson, I would definitely rather drive a truck.
    Same, but that likely has to do more with my outlook at this age than anything. Fwiw, these gigs usually pay $400-$600 per player, so there's that.

  40. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by mrcee View Post
    To paraphrase Ricky Nelson, I would definitely rather drive a truck.
    Shovel poop, wash dishes. I can think of all kinds of things I'd rather do.

  41. #40

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    No kiddin'.

    The money sounds good but (and I could be wrong here) if it's basically 3 days by the time you do whatever preparation is necessary, travel way out of town (State maybe if you're in the NE) and at least part of a day to regroup maybe not so much. Also there's surely a 1099 involved which will cut your take by a third. $600 would be good but $400 a little light imo. Anyway not really worth a $400,000 education.

  42. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevebol View Post
    Shovel poop, wash dishes.
    Has less of a ring to it than ‘chop wood, carry water’

  43. #42

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    Yeah. Function gigs are a grind.

    Life spent on the road at weekends.

  44. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77 View Post
    Yeah. Function gigs are a grind.

    Life spent on the road at weekends.
    A grind indeed, much of the time. On the other hand, weddings do provide a window into human nature that is, if not unique, at the least highly interesting. You get to observe two (usually distinct) groups - friends/relatives of the Bride and f/r of the groom - awkwardly interacting, usually under the influence of alcohol ingested more liberally than would ordinarily be the case (because someone else is buying), trying to make nice and touch all necessary bases while wearing their best (and least comfortable clothing) in a room that is too hot or too cold (or both, depending on your current blood alcohol/sugar level), with wretched acoustics compounded by the din of everyone shout/talking at once and just when you think it can't get any worse, the band starts to play!
    Best regards, k

  45. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by citizenk74 View Post
    A grind indeed, much of the time. On the other hand, weddings do provide a window into human nature that is, if not unique, at the least highly interesting. You get to observe two (usually distinct) groups - friends/relatives of the Bride and f/r of the groom - awkwardly interacting, usually under the influence of alcohol ingested more liberally than would ordinarily be the case (because someone else is buying), trying to make nice and touch all necessary bases while wearing their best (and least comfortable clothing) in a room that is too hot or too cold (or both, depending on your current blood alcohol/sugar level), with wretched acoustics compounded by the din of everyone shout/talking at once and just when you think it can't get any worse, the band starts to play!
    Hilarious. Every word the gospel truth.

  46. #45

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    If you go to school for music they're not going to tell you a two-class society exists for musicians but it does.

  47. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevebol View Post
    If you go to school for music they're not going to tell you a two-class society exists for musicians but it does.
    the number one thing i learned living in a music city: don't forget to have rich parents.

    i can't tell what's more artisocratic/privileged: a half million dollars spent on 'jazz school' or normalizing a YouTube/wedding band career after the half mill. education... then again, i am probably just bitter b/c i couldn't swing the expense of a college music education here in the US.

    i like adam's videos though; he's super articulate and thoughtful, his original music is pretty cool too...

  48. #47
    Playing these types of gigs on the side hasn't been that bad for me. If you have a steady band, once you have the repertoire down and the band is ready, you can do a lot of gigs in town without the hassle of traveling. Play a couple of evenings a week, it 's a salary by itself. But then again i live in greece, where things are more relaxed. Meaning you go to the gig 1-2 hours early not half a day . Same with TV or studio stuff which say in the states would take all day! And i also like the music if the band is good

  49. #48

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    In retrospect, I didn't mean to sound so shitty about wedding gigs, I just hate weddings. It seems the wedding/event thing can actually be downright lucrative for some here, even. If someone enjoys that and it puts food on the table, I am definitely not trying to knock it.

  50. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by basscadet View Post
    the number one thing i learned living in a music city: don't forget to have rich parents.

    i can't tell what's more artisocratic/privileged: a half million dollars spent on 'jazz school' or normalizing a YouTube/wedding band career after the half mill. education... then again, i am probably just bitter b/c i couldn't swing the expense of a college music education here in the US.

    i like adam's videos though; he's super articulate and thoughtful, his original music is pretty cool too...
    Adam is a good musician. His band the Metropolitan Players is one of the better Top 40 bands I've heard.
    Me..
    I'm going to China;




  51. #50

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    Another take on the subject from JALC: