Rate for "sit-in" (edit: freelance) players in your band?

[ian_rhythm]

Thank you for all the input.

First, I want to explain that I had my terminology wrong. I meant sub, or freelancer - not "sit-in." I'm 33 years old have have only been gigging professionally for 3 years, so please excuse my ignorance.

Mainly, I wanted to get an idea of the average reasonable amount to pay a freelancer. Because then I could say "That gig doesn't pay enough to invite anyone, let's do it as a trio." Or, conversely, "This gig pays enough to cover expenses, get paid, and add a guest soloist or singer to liven up our set."

A sub should get the same or more than the person they are replacing - that is clear.

But this thread made me realize that the main issue I am dealing with is more about the business model of the band, and how it is changing. As RonJazz explained above, he has a formula to account for the management of the band, and that's what I need to do as well.

Basically, our core is a gypsy jazz trio: rhythm, lead, bass. I play rhythm and take care of all the booking, contracts, PR, social media, and marketing (I'll be damned if I don't get a cut for dealing with the "wedding party" ). The lead player is the band leader and picks the songs, brings the charts, owns the LLC, and does recording and production for us. The bass player... well... he runs sound when we bring our own PA, but he's also the only upright player we know, which means we don't get the gig without him.

Our other two regular members just come to weekly rehearsals, and play the gigs. Until recently, I have been paying out 100% evenly. Mainly, yes, because many times there is not enough money to do anything else. But we are getting better and better gigs, and I want the trio to be getting a bigger cut, because of all the extra time and effort we put into it. I want to find a model that is fair for both the core members, and anyone who ends up playing with us. And I also want to fit in a band fund for gear and studio time.

Ronjazz's model is really close to what I am starting to do, except for him it's 2 people taking the bigger cut, and we have 3 people who fit that category.

[Runepune]

i actually contemplated moving to norway a few years back. are you working professionally? how many towns with jazz clubs are there? is there a scene for straight-ahead jazz? how many clubs in oslo pay that kind of money?

questions over questions

The geographic density of jazz clubs in the country is probably quite small, as we're only 5 mill people spread over such a long country... I'm really not that familiar with the jazz club scene these days, but I can't imagine them paying much less than $300 per musician, at least for small groups. The club scene is definitely not large enough to make a living from such gigs alone though.

A list of clubs here, though many of them may only have weekly or monthly concerts.

Yeah, I'm full time freelance as a guitarist, audio engineer and teacher (guitar). Very little of that is jazz though. But as long as there are elements of improvisation, I'm fine The one's I know that are full time jazz musicians exclusively are constantly on tour...Over here (Europe) and Asia mostly, it seems.

[ian_rhythm]

why weekly rehearsals?

Because we are friends, enjoy playing together, and have new standards or original songs to learn.

[ian_rhythm]

Also, I think a simple way to resolve one side of it is to just ask the person, "What is your going rate as a freelancer?" And go from there.

[drbhrb]

Also, I think a simple way to resolve one side of it is to just ask the person, "What is your going rate as a freelancer?" And go from there.

Personally as someone who does a lot of freelance type gigs this would give me a strong feeling that there was an attempt to screw me. I'd much rather just get the honest offer of whatever the gig in question can pay. i.e. "Hey are you available on x date from 6 to 9 at this location, $150". Include any specifics on dress (beyond basic show up looking presentable), rehearsals, early arrival, sound checks etc. Nothing worse than agreeing to a gig and then later you are told the load in is 3 hours before the hit, you have to wear a tux, and there's an unpaid rehearsal.

Also as far as the trio making more money because you are putting more work in,

"Because we are friends, enjoy playing together, and have new standards or original songs to learn."

Only one of those three reasons sounds like work. And with good charts and recordings sent out ahead of time new tunes are usually run on the gig in my experience. Just food for thought.

[ian_rhythm]

Personally as someone who does a lot of freelance type gigs this would give me a strong feeling that there was an attempt to screw me. I'd much rather just get the honest offer of whatever the gig in question can pay. i.e. "Hey are you available on x date from 6 to 9 at this location, $150". Include any specifics on dress (beyond basic show up looking presentable), rehearsals, early arrival, sound checks etc. Nothing worse than agreeing to a gig and then later you are told the load in is 3 hours before the hit, you have to wear a tux, and there's an unpaid rehearsal.

Also as far as the trio making more money because you are putting more work in,

"Because we are friends, enjoy playing together, and have new standards or original songs to learn."

Only one of those three reasons sounds like work. And with good charts and recordings sent out ahead of time new tunes are usually run on the gig in my experience. Just food for thought.

Yes, that makes sense too. But that is exactly why I am asking this group what is a reasonable rate! And since I haven't been able to get a straight answer, I thought asking the musician personally what works for them is just one option.

Regarding weekly practices, that is not why the trio would be paid more. As I mentioned in another post, it's the managerial stuff like booking good gigs, negotiating rates, dealing with other businesses and wedding parties, hauling and running the PA, making charts, etc.

[ian_rhythm]

75$ per hour is a reasonable minimum rate for weddings and receptions. No rehearsal, not more than 2 hours of travel.

thank you!

[Stevebol]

Thank you for all the input.

First, I want to explain that I had my terminology wrong. I meant sub, or freelancer - not "sit-in." I'm 33 years old have have only been gigging professionally for 3 years, so please excuse my ignorance.

Mainly, I wanted to get an idea of the average reasonable amount to pay a freelancer. Because then I could say "That gig doesn't pay enough to invite anyone, let's do it as a trio." Or, conversely, "This gig pays enough to cover expenses, get paid, and add a guest soloist or singer to liven up our set."

A sub should get the same or more than the person they are replacing - that is clear.

But this thread made me realize that the main issue I am dealing with is more about the business model of the band, and how it is changing. As RonJazz explained above, he has a formula to account for the management of the band, and that's what I need to do as well.

Basically, our core is a gypsy jazz trio: rhythm, lead, bass. I play rhythm and take care of all the booking, contracts, PR, social media, and marketing (I'll be damned if I don't get a cut for dealing with the "wedding party" ). The lead player is the band leader and picks the songs, brings the charts, owns the LLC, and does recording and production for us. The bass player... well... he runs sound when we bring our own PA, but he's also the only upright player we know, which means we don't get the gig without him.

Our other two regular members just come to weekly rehearsals, and play the gigs. Until recently, I have been paying out 100% evenly. Mainly, yes, because many times there is not enough money to do anything else. But we are getting better and better gigs, and I want the trio to be getting a bigger cut, because of all the extra time and effort we put into it. I want to find a model that is fair for both the core members, and anyone who ends up playing with us. And I also want to fit in a band fund for gear and studio time.

Ronjazz's model is really close to what I am starting to do, except for him it's 2 people taking the bigger cut, and we have 3 people who fit that category.

It's off topic but I'm curious why bass players doing GJ don't opt for an acoustic/electric with nylon strings. It won't sound exactly like a standup but it's close enough. There's the U Bass but it's really small.
This sounds OK too;