The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by mrcee
    I don't care if it's totally gone/free jazz, if you can get people dancing you've got a chance at getting paying gigs.
    ....and that's a GOOD thing...

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  3. #27

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    Gigging is for college grads these days. Without the networking it's an uphill climb. The rosters of these corporate bands aren't full of people who were working in factories.

  4. #28

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    Around here, there is a fairly simple strategy to network.

    There are a lot of rehearsal big bands, always needing subs.

    Some have websites.

    Contact the band director, introduce yourself and volunteer to sub.

    Most of the bands are filled with pro and semipro players.

    Sooner or later, you'll get a call.

    All you need to do is impress them with your playing. Of course, that's the hard part.

  5. #29

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    Most of all....nobody needs or wants another guitarist...

  6. #30

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    Some fantastic positivity on this thread! /S/

    I would suggest finding something that sets your group apart from other bands.

  7. #31

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    Oh boy.... the agenda of my group is pretty filled up and we play more in our city than some guys who live from playing and teaching only. But we can only do that because we have day jobs and can play for relatively small fees.

    My observations for my city (The Hague, one if the bigger cities in the Netherlands):

    Bars, shops, cafés and restaurants are businesses. They will usually only hire music if that actually creates more revenue for their business. Fortunately, around here jazz still attracts people and having live jazz in your place means more people ordering drinks so there's still a lot of live music around here, but the fees are way too low to make a decent living out of it (€200 for the band is considered well payed). So what you see is that mostly conservatory students and amateurs (as in: people with a different day job) rule that scene.

    Quite a few places have jam sessions and those are attracting quite a big audience and lots of musicians too. Normally only the organizer (usually one of the players) and sometimes the opening band get a small fee. So organizing sessions or being a session group can bring you gigs.

    Some places organize jazz concerts for the professional top players and normally ask an entrance fee of around €10. Those are concerts with an audience coming to listen to the more well known artists with the added bonus for the venue of a larger crowd ordering drinks and food, so those are typically organized on Sunday afternoon ending around dinner time.

    Lastly, there's a festival culture around here and jazz festivals are frequent. Those often pay a little better, for a local group that's unknown €400-500 for a 45 minute set is quite usual. With an album and more notoriety you can ask €1000-1500.

    There is not so much of a coffee shop scene around here (they don't need to, places are packed without live music), but a few places will hire individual musicians. I've only done that a few times and typically it pays €75.
    Last edited by Little Jay; 06-11-2017 at 04:31 AM.

  8. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by Little Jay
    Oh boy.... the agenda of my group is pretty filled up and we play more in our city than some guys who live from playing and teaching only. But we can only do that because we have day jobs and can play for relatively small fees.

    My observations for my city (The Hague, one if the bigger cities in the Netherlands):

    Bars, shops, cafés and restaurants are businesses. They will usually only hire music if that actually creates more revenue for their business. Fortunately, around here jazz still attracts people and having live jazz in your place means more people ordering drinks so there's still a lot of live music around here, but the fees are way too low to make a decent living out of it (€200 for the band is considered well payed). So what you see is that mostly conservatory students and amateurs (as in: people with a different day job) rule that scene.

    Quite a few places have jam sessions and those are attracting quite a big audience and lots of musicians too. Normally only the organizer (usually one of the players) and sometimes the opening band get a small fee. So organizing sessions or being a session group can bring you gigs.

    Some places organize jazz concerts for the professional top players and normally ask an entrance fee of around €10. Those are concerts with an audience coming to listen to the more well known artists with the added bonus for the venue of a larger crowd ordering drinks and food, so those are typically organized on Sunday afternoon ending around dinner time.

    Lastly, there's a festival culture around here and jazz festivals are frequent. Those often pay a little better, for a local group that's unknown €400-500 for a 45 minute set is quite usual. With an album and more notoriety you can ask €1000-1500.

    There is not so much of a coffee shop scene around here (they don't need to, places are packed without live music), but a few places will hire individual musicians. I've only done that a few times and typically it pays €75.
    I think you came up with a partial answer. If playing the guitar and gigging with a certain type of music is the highest priority, then as with anything else, one should move to a place where they do that sort of thing. At least a person would have a chance there.

    As with jobs, its clear that some cities just don't have the opportunities unless you can find a way to create them yourself.

    And it is clear that as with many other pursuits, there probably won't be a whole lot of money in it. But is sure can be pleasurable - again like many other things

  9. #33

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    I lost interest in gigging 30 years ago after doing a residency overseas. A couple years ago I found out we were the last American band to be sponsored in the far east.
    One band followed us and were put up by a couple gf's from the last gig. They worked for 3 months and that was the end.

    The system worked but we had gambling money behind us. Philanthropy.

  10. #34

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    I can't imagine not gigging anymore... to me that's what it's all about!

    (What does that say about my ego and my narcissistic needs, hahaha?)

  11. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by Little Jay
    My observations for my city (The Hague, one if the bigger cities in the Netherlands):
    I lived in the Hague twice, and know most of the players there (as of my last sojourn, 2007). Have we met?

  12. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by mrcee
    I don't want my friends at the gig. I want my enemies at the gig.
    When Bradley Cunningham---owner of the famous Bradley's in NY---died, unfortunately his wife Wendy inherited the business---and ran it into the ground, eventually losing the entire building he had owned.

    Red Mitchell told me Wendy complained about his proud comment about he and Hank Jones playing there and bringing in all kinds of 'old friends'.

    'I don't want 'old friends'. 'I want hundreds of strangers I can milk'.

    So he wrote a song and sang it: Strangers I can Milk...

  13. #37

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    The "professional" part of being a profesional musician is doing the off-stage business-oriented stuff: cultivating relationships with venues, making positive connections with other players, developing and maintaining an audience that will actually come to hear you, creating something worth coming out to hear and not just running down Real Book heads, doing bookkeeping, etc. A lot of "pros" really want to be glorified amateurs- practice, play a gig, practice some more with the expectation that the venue is going to find you an audience. Once upon a time that worked because jazz had a bigger audience than 1 in 10,000 people in any given town. Now, those who would be pros have to do that work for themselves.

  14. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by fasstrack
    I lived in the Hague twice, and know most of the players there (as of my last sojourn, 2007). Have we met?
    We might have! But I started being active with my band around town from 2008 or so. Although I did go to the occasional jam session in Murphy's Law, de Pater and De Regentenkamer back then. I think I was still studying with Olaf Tarenskeen around that time.

  15. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by Little Jay
    We might have! But I started being active with my band around town from 2008 or so. Although I did go to the occasional jam session in Murphy's Law, de Pater and De Regentenkamer back then. I think I was still studying with Olaf Tarenskeen around that time.
    Is he Bart's brother? A classical player?

    We couldn't have met. I was never there after winter 2007. But the guys would remember me: Dan Nicholas for sure, also Vincent Koning, Peter Beets, Juraj Stanik, especially Bob Wijnen (I brought him here for a tour in '04), Anette Von Eichel (a vocalist now living in Cologne---I stayed at her apt. across from the Conservatory in '01), Simon Rigter, Rene Winter, Barry Olt (can't remember the rest, a drummer who has a recording studio), Jens Larsen. All great people and players.

    Please say hello to any of these people for me if you see them. I have only fond memories. (Joe Cohn was there too, but you probably know about THAT)...
    Last edited by fasstrack; 06-14-2017 at 04:30 PM.

  16. #40

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    Haha great, yes all of them except for Anette are still around! I live very close to the cconservatory btw, same neighbourhood!

    Yes, Olaf is Bart's brother. Actually he plays a crossover of classic and jazz.

  17. #41

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    Good read.

    Fwiw...I missed the 80's, 90's, and 00's music scene. Have no idea how it worked back then. My limited experience now (last 4 years) is:
    1. it takes time to get into venues.
    2. you need to play what you audience wants to hear, when at the venue.
    3. never take a lost gig personal.
    4. have a standard rate you charge.

    I am fortunate to now gig 2-5 times a week. 1-5 hour gigs. This has grown over 4 years from 1x/week to now several times a month and being booked at a couple places a year in advance. A good gig leads to another opportunity. I find being friendly with owners helps, friendly with patrons helps, and friendly with staff helps. I also have learned that other musicians will take your gigs if given the chance. We are all competing for "X" amount of money available for LIVE music. Fortunately, there are many venues to tap.

    My music is not for the 9pm-1am crowd. My fans are home by 10pm. With a small bit of success, I have gotten more places to consider music during typical dinner times (like 5-9). I find that patrons enjoy it, the owners like the feedback and word of mouth spreads. I also, provide professional quality photos for the venue owner that they can use on their websites. And I maintain a Face Book presence with videos that have led to a recent corporate booking which resulted in a repeat booking due to the success of the first one. I play Country Clubs, outdoor patios, private parties, farmers markets, town square socials, retirement homes, corporate events, restaurants, and basically anyplace where they will pay my rate. I typically play solo, but have a cadre of musicians to call upon for venues with specific requirements or wishes.

    For me, it has been a matter of finding where my music fits, then finding those venues where it does. Once I get a booking, I generally get booked again. But - not always. Some places that seemed like a good fit, end up not being so. Can't take it personal. Get the next gig and enjoy those fans who clap and dance and sing along.

    edit to add...met my neighbor today. Full time jazz musician and professor at Wayne State University. Charges $150/hour as a starting point. Typically learns the budget of the entity hiring and generally charges more. cliffmonear.com
    Last edited by LeGrand; 07-06-2017 at 02:38 PM. Reason: add info