The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #1

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    I hope this post is going in the right place...

    I just got back from an afternoon gig with a full big band, and I swear the feedback I had to deal with when I tried to solo was maddening. When I realize I can't turn up, I try to play harder and then it's impossible to play in the groove or swing. I will admit, the drummer played one dynamic level, which I didn't appreciate, but anyway...

    I have noticed that my guitar reacts to all the sound on stage. There were times today I thought it was going to explode even when I was counting rests. A gig I played a few months ago with a symphony made me realize that even my semi hollow body was constantly vibrating from the instruments all around me, but not to the extent I experienced today.

    So, the question is - does anyone here prefer a semi hollow or solid guitar for big band jobs? I think I will never take my hollow body to another one.
    Last edited by ScottM; 05-28-2017 at 11:22 PM.

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  3. #2

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    Amp placement? After a dozen years playing in big bands happily with teles, strat, 335 style guitar, I'm giving a laminate hollowbody a try with good success.

    I'd go back to my tele in a flash if I started having feedback issues.

  4. #3

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    I tried the amp placement "solution" that I have been told will help, but it really didn't. We were just loud as hell. I don't know how else to put it. When I play the same guitar in a trio at almost any volume level, I don't have problems like this.

  5. #4

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    You might try putting clear tape over your f-holes, ala Benson and others. If that doesn't work, go to a solid body, or find another band. Stupid loud is stupid, and the inevitable hearing loss is no joke, and expensive to ameliorate. DAMHIKT. Good luck.
    Last edited by citizenk74; 05-29-2017 at 12:59 AM. Reason: Haste, as usual

  6. #5

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    Playing loud as you're saying maybe a solution would be mic your amplifier and keep it in a low volume.

  7. #6

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    The subject "loud big band" reminds me of a story. Count Basie instructed a new trumpet player: "Whatever happens, always follow Freddie Greens guitar." The trumpeter: "But what if I can't hear him?" Basie: "Then you play too loud."

  8. #7

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    That's why a play a telecaster on big band gigs.

    I get some funny looks mind.

  9. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by oldane
    The subject "loud big band" reminds me of a story. Count Basie instructed a new trumpet player: "Whatever happens, always follow Freddie Greens guitar." The trumpeter: "But what if I can't hear him?" Basie: "Then you play too loud."
    Ha! Imagine telling a modern big band that. They always play stupid loud.

    Quiet + exact rhythms + articulation = intensity. Playing louder is easier though.

  10. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScottM
    I hope this post is going in the right place...

    I just got back from an afternoon gig with a full big band, and I swear the feedback I had to deal with when I tried to solo was maddening. When I realize I can't turn up, I try to play harder and then it's impossible to play in the groove or swing. I will admit, the drummer played one dynamic level, which I didn't appreciate, but anyway...

    I have noticed that my guitar reacts to all the sound on stage. There were times today I thought it was going to explode even when I was counting rests. A gig I played a few months ago with a symphony made me realize that even my semi hollow body was constantly vibrating from the instruments all around me, but not to the extent I experienced today.

    So, the question is - does anyone here prefer a semi hollow or solid guitar for big band jobs? I think I will never take my hollow body to another one.
    I play in an octet with four horns and a big band with 15 horns. The big band plays a lot of older charts, going back to the 50s. Some newer stuff too.

    I play a solid body. I generally dial the amp's bass knob way down. No feedback and the guitar sits by itself in the mix, or so I like to think. No complaints yet.

    Does my solid body sound as good as an archtop? I'd say it sounds way better, if the archtop is feeding back at the time.

    Of course, like many other players, my idea of terrific tone is Wes'. But, in my hands, in my situations, my choice is a solid body.

    BTW, I used a Korean D'Angelico semi (with a block inside) and even that guitar occasionally fed back, although it wasn't often a problem. I switched to the Strat copy partly because of arthritis -- I need the skinny neck. But, if the arthritis wasn't an issue, I'd use a different solid body.

    You might recall, that the last major big band regularly in the public eye was the Tonight Show Orchestra on the Johnny Carson show. Bob Bain was the regular guitarist and he played a Tele.

  11. #10

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    Well TBF Ed Bickert also features pretty highly in my idea of great tone :-)

  12. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    Well TBF Ed Bickert also features pretty highly in my idea of great tone :-)
    Good point. Ted Greene also played a Tele -- and his solo guitar tone was like a chorus of angels.

  13. #12

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    Mr Lerch isn't too shabby tonewise either.

  14. #13

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    For loud big bands (which seems to be most of them these days) I prefer a laminated archtop with the bass rolled off quite a bit. A carved archtop is great at moderate volumes, but when the level starts approaching feedback levels the tone becomes unpredictable. I sometimes use a Tele, but prefer the tone and decay of a hollow body for that style of music.
    Last edited by KirkP; 05-29-2017 at 05:48 PM.

  15. #14

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    I switched to a Borys Jazz Solid B-222 model after dealing with this problem for many years.
    I tried using Fenders and Parkers, but I couldn't get the jazz sound I wanted.

    With the Jazz Solid, I get the sound I like, at a volume that can cut through the loudest big band, with no feedback issues.
    I can even get a good acoustic comping sound that is just as good as my laminate hollow body. That's another thing that I don't like about Fenders and other solid bodies, you can't get that woody sound that blends so well with an acoustic bass and acoustic piano.

  16. #15

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    When I listen to Basie and Freddie Greene, I hear more highs than lows from the guitar, even though I know that Freddie Greene was playing the lower strings, for the most part.

    When I try to imitate it with a solid body, I think I get closest with the lows rolled off.

    I could be way off base on this. Thoughts?

  17. #16

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    Tele was the best big band guitar I ever used. Set the tone very flat. Trying a hollow archtop recently just because it's my lightest guitar. Big bands do get very loud. Rock band loud.

  18. #17

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    Today, under the influence of this thread, I brought my American Standard Tele to big band rehearsal. I rolled the bass off a bit and the treble a lot, turned the amp's volume very high, and used the guitar's pot to control my volume. I really enjoyed it. I think I'll bring it again.

  19. #18

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    Just curious ...

    It seems that more jazz players use Tele's than Strats. Sure there are some great players who do use Strats, but more Tele's, I think.

    What is there about the Strat that doesn't work as well for jazz?

  20. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
    Just curious ...

    It seems that more jazz players use Tele's than Strats. Sure there are some great players who do use Strats, but more Tele's, I think.

    What is there about the Strat that doesn't work as well for jazz?
    I think there's something about a strat's construction- the spring-loaded bridge, possibly the extra body routing- that tends to hollow out the mid response, giving a great pop/blues sound but less so for jazz. A tele seems to sound more mid-heavy even acoustically, plus the neck pickup with the metal cover softens the treble but still retains some midrange. Finally, perhaps the less flashy, more workmanlike tele shape and cosmetics appeal more.

    Probably a happy accident, but many players just seem to favour the tele, as you say; hard to beat a tele neck pickup sound.

  21. #20

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    I play most of the times a Gibson L5CT, a Gretsch G400 or a Gibson ES175D in the bigband. I use either a Peavey Bandit or a Boss Katana 100 as amp (both are transistor type amps). I am right handed and I place my amp to the left side behind me. There the speaker is not directly hitting the body of my guitar. That helps. Also, hold the guitar body tight and close to your body and your picking arm onto the guitar body as much as possible. clamping it between belly and arm. As if you dont want the top and back to vibrate at all.
    Mute strings as much as possible.
    Another thing is to stay away from the bass players speaker with your guitar body...
    The nicer the guitar, the more prone they are for feedbacking. Especially the carved full hollow body guitars tend to feedback easy at higher volumes

  22. #21

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    The Tele may become more popular with the introduction
    soon of the limited edition.exotic FSR in Pine with a CC
    neck pickup, yet Tim Lerch's 3 pickup with Lollars version
    Is very desirable as a Jazz/ Blues Tele

  23. #22

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    Peerless Monarch with feed back...no balloons .tape, foam or what not around..so i plugged the F holes with 2 dusters....By thunder that worked...

  24. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by silverfoxx
    The Tele may become more popular with the introduction
    soon of the limited edition.exotic FSR in Pine with a CC
    neck pickup, yet Tim Lerch's 3 pickup with Lollars version
    Is very desirable as a Jazz/ Blues Tele
    Whoa - you got a link for that you naughty tease?

  25. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
    Just curious ...

    It seems that more jazz players use Tele's than Strats. Sure there are some great players who do use Strats, but more Tele's, I think.

    What is there about the Strat that doesn't work as well for jazz?
    Strats have that "quacking" tone which isn't so great for straight jazz and imo sound thin at lower volumes without effects. Although people can get a great jazz tone out of them. Tele's have their share of coloration to, for sure. The twang. But not really so much on the neck pu. It's been said that a Tele is the most like an acoustic guitar of any electric. And they have lots of harmonic complexity.
    Last edited by mrcee; 05-31-2017 at 12:34 PM.

  26. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
    Just curious ...
    It seems that more jazz players use Tele's than Strats. Sure there are some great players who do use Strats, but more Tele's, I think.
    What is there about the Strat that doesn't work as well for jazz?
    I've managed to dial in a pleasing tone on a Strat for straight ahead jazz by switching to neck & middle pickups with bass and treble rolled off for a mid-focused tone. I think my vibrato was blocked at the time.

    One issue with the Strat is the complexity of dealing with 3-pickups and two tone controls. Not that it's overwhelming, but it's another distraction on the bandstand. With a standard Tele there is just a 3-position switch and one tone control to grab. The Tele's knurled knobs are much easier to adjust on the fly by just brushing them, and you can easily make either fine adjustments or wide sweeps. Simple controls help me focus on the music.

    I'll bring my Strat to the next big band rehearsal to see if I have other thoughts about it. I've tried it before, but it's been a long time.