Curious About Album Sales

[jordanklemons]

I read a statistic recently. It said that "the average musician is selling less than 50 albums a year."

From the wording, I assume that means all albums combined (for those who have released more than one album). It didn't clarify hard copy albums vs downloads, so I'm not sure if that number includes both or only hard copies. I'm also not sure if this only included ONLY independent artists, and I'm also not sure if this 'average' was concluded by looking at the average number of albums all artists sells divided by the number of artists... or the number of albums everyone sells total. In other words, if an artists sells 1,000,000 albums and we're looking at the total average of all musicians, we would take that into account... so if we had 100 musicians, 99 sold zero albums, and one sold 1,000,000... the average album sales would be 10,000. Whereas if we look at it based on the number of artists, then we could say that 99% of musicians sell zero albums... two VERY different looks at the same statistics. The wording of the quote makes me think it's the latter... but I'm not 100% sure about that.

There have been several threads going around recently regarding CD sales, how to sell more, people promoting their own new albums (including myself), and a lot of talk about how record sales are essentially over and done with.

I suppose I was curious to start this thread with a slightly different approach and perspective. Not really curious about opinions on the topic, or what so and so said about it in general terms. More curious about actual numbers and reality.

Those of you who have an album out, or multiple albums... does this statistic pretty much line up with you? You don't have to share specific sales numbers if you don't want... but do you find that you sell up to, but not more than, around 50 albums per year?

I think with my sophomore album having just been released, and then seeing all these "album sales" threads, and then reading this statistic... it just got me curious.

[blille]

You're not going to get a very scientific sampling here (a jazz guitar forum) but FWIW I don't sell a single album if I don't make a big effort to promote it and since I haven't done that in years, I would count as a musician with an album out and 0 sales. Also I assume streaming made that number less relevant.

And congrats on your release!


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[rcpj]

Those of you who have an album out, or multiple albums... does this statistic pretty much line up with you? You don't have to share specific sales numbers if you don't want... but do you find that you sell up to, but not more than, around 50 albums per year?

Yep, thats' about right..

[neatomic]

paul mccartney from rolling stone interview 2016-

RS- Have you had to change your expectations as to what constitutes a hit compared with what you knew in 1966?

PM- I've given up trying to figure it out. You can't. Like this Pure album – I'll get rung up: "It's Number Three." "Wow, that's cool, man. What did it sell?" "15,000." I think inside, "It's a joke, man – 15,000 a day was not good then."

But that's the new world in record sales, unless you're Rihanna or Beyoncé. I'll put out my next album, but I won't think I'm gonna sell a lot. I'm putting it out because I have songs that I like. And I will do my best job. The scene has changed, but it doesn't disturb me, because I had the best of it – selling 100,000 a day on something like "Mull of Kintyre." I've had the joy of that. If I don't have it now, it's not just about me. All of my contemporaries, who are still pretty cool, don't have it, because things have moved on.
And you know what? We had it. And it was great.



cheers

[rlrhett]

I've been in the music industry for a while (attorney) and have represented acts in a number of genres. No one I know sells more than a few thousand albums. Selling out a 10,000 run is unicorn and rainbow territory.

These aren't nobody acts either. We are talking about bands that have a manager and can afford an attorney as well.

My experience is that thinking of album sales is anachronistic. Thinking about fortunes made from millions of album sales seems a bit like looking for fortunes in sheet music. Albums are a marketing expense. A way of announcing new music and creating buzz or an excuse for booking gigs.

The music acts that survive seem to be the ones that can bring people in the door. Can you draw at a festival? Fill a venue? That is what matters, and what new albums support.

I am sure there are plenty of counter-examples people can quote. But I have the benefit of having seen dozens of acts, and that is what I am seeing.


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[MarkRhodes]

I've been in the music industry for a while (attorney) and have represented acts in a number of genres. No one I know sells more than a few thousand albums. Selling out a 10,000 run is unicorn and rainbow territory.



The music acts that survive seem to be the ones that can bring people in the door. Can you draw at a festival? Fill a venue? That is what matters, and what new albums support.

I am a total outsider. But reading this brought something funny to mind that I once saw on television. A pop musician whose name I forget was talking about "the business" and he said it was a circle. To paraphrase, "when you're not making any money on the road they tell you the tour is just to sell albums, that's where the real money is. When you're not making any money on record sales they tell you that's just advertisement for the tour, that's where the real money is." Apparently, the real money goes into the pockets of promoters, producers, and managers....

[destinytot]

I sell at least a couple of dozen at each theatre gig, but only one or two at clubs.

[Hep To The Jive]

50 copies a year?? That's a joke! Or I don't understand it correctly? A band I'm gigging with the most and recorded an album with, we sell I'd say about 300 CDs a year (at least last year). All hard copies, totally self made. We take it to all the gigs, or busking sessions, and whatnot. I never considered it special, I thought it's way less the average... but 50? Funny thing, I don't think we are even that good, it's a kinda NOLA type jazz mixed with Gypsy and blues, and most of the time it's sound too loud and obnoxious to my taste, but the frontman is doing his routine I guess it appeals to people. Not many jazz fans though.

On the other hand, I was busking today with amazing musicians, a top notch violin player and accordionist. I enjoyed it so much, we played the most amazing music I thought, and we made barely $20 each playing 3 hours non stop! Only one guy asked for CD! (which we don't have because it's a pickup band). I hate NYC sometimes.

[jordanklemons]

50 copies a year?? That's a joke! Or I don't understand it correctly? A band I'm gigging with the most and recorded an album with, we sell I'd say about 300 CDs a year (at least last year). All hard copies, totally self made. We take it to all the gigs, or busking sessions, and whatnot. I never considered it special, I thought it's way less the average... but 50? Funny thing, I don't think we are even that good, it's a kinda NOLA type jazz mixed with Gypsy and blues, and most of the time it's sound too loud and obnoxious to my taste, but the frontman is doing his routine I guess it appeals to people. Not many jazz fans though.

On the other hand, I was busking today with amazing musicians, a top notch violin player and accordionist. I enjoyed it so much, we played the most amazing music I thought, and we made barely $20 each playing 3 hours non stop! Only one guy asked for CD! (which we don't have because it's a pickup band). I hate NYC sometimes.

Interesting. In fairness, it says "the average musician"... and I'm guessing you gig and busk more frequently than the average musician??? Possibly? Also, how many albums do you have? The way it was worded I think it meant less than 50 copies of each album. So if you got 10 records and you sell 499 CDs a year, I think that would still qualify within this status.

[jordanklemons]

You're not going to get a very scientific sampling here (a jazz guitar forum) but FWIW I don't sell a single album if I don't make a big effort to promote it and since I haven't done that in years, I would count as a musician with an album out and 0 sales. Also I assume streaming made that number less relevant.

Yeah, streaming maybe. It's also possible it's helped. I think it all depends on who you ask and the particulars of each artist's situation. But regardless, not as curious about the ins and outs and problems and benefits of the 21st century "music industry". Was more just curious about the specific experience with the numbers for different members. I definitely hear you about the 0. I had plenty of years between releases where I wasn't promoting anything and kept a nice steady 0 for a while. hahaha

And congrats on your release!

Thanks a bunch!

[jordanklemons]

I am a total outsider. But reading this brought something funny to mind that I once saw on television. A pop musician whose name I forget was talking about "the business" and he said it was a circle. To paraphrase, "when you're not making any money on the road they tell you the tour is just to sell albums, that's where the real money is. When you're not making any money on record sales they tell you that's just advertisement for the tour, that's where the real money is." Apparently, the real money goes into the pockets of promoters, producers, and managers....

I spent close to two years basically living on the road between a couple of different bands. Played all over. Multiple sets at Bonnaroo, Joshua Tree Music Festival, huge festivals around the country, huge theaters, small bars, up and down the east coast, Colorado, Chicago, sold good numbers of CD's just about every night, gave interviews and performances on radio stations, had agents and managers, go written up in national magazines... my groups even had people like Erykah Badu and Jeff Coffin sitting in.

In one group (10-piece afrobeat orchestra), I made $100 a month... $150 on a good month. In the other (just a good ole' Americana/pop/punk/southern rock group) I made around $400-$500 a month. And we were all on the road all the time... every week. Hitting it hard. Selling CD's, vinyl, tickets. Still doesn't add up to much.

Anyways... that's all pretty off topic. Again, not looking to get into another "how to make money in the music industry" or "how to sell CD's" thread... was just curious about feet on the ground numbers from anyone in here with albums that was willing to share. I read that statistic and it got me curious. It was found my taking a survey... and I'm quite sure those surveyed were all struggling independent artists who probably weren't touring heavily or already getting air play. But nonetheless... it got me curious.

[Hep To The Jive]

Interesting. In fairness, it says "the average musician"... and I'm guessing you gig and busk more frequently than the average musician??? Possibly? Also, how many albums do you have? The way it was worded I think it meant less than 50 copies of each album. So if you got 10 records and you sell 499 CDs a year, I think that would still qualify within this status.

I dunno. I think less! My average is 2 gigs per week, and 2 busking sessions. That's very low! I want to gig at least 3 times every week. I know plenty of people on the scene who are doing more. I don't know if they selling any CDs though, I never asked.

Last fall I busked with another trad NOLA band, but better quality overall, and the guy who leads it, he was selling the CDs, records, USB drives with music, like hot cakes in Central Park! On average we would sell 15 - 20 items per 3 hour session. I wasn't getting any cut from it though, because he was paying royalties to musicians who are on it.

And my band I was talking about, yeah, only one album, that's all we got.

[cosmic gumbo]

CDs are just swag to sell at gigs, or musical business cards for some archaic career posturing? Nobody buys physical product anymore.

The new business model for Average Joe is single downloads. Produce one good song and get it out there using mega social media exposure. It's kinda like a throwback to the forties and fifties, before there was an album market. One good song at a time.

It's not good business to budget for the production of a whole collection of songs unless you're Taylor Swift.

I quit the music publishing business 15 years ago when I realized the gov't didn't really care if consumers stole all their music from the internet.

[jordanklemons]

I dunno. I think less! My average is 2 gigs per week, and 2 busking sessions. That's very low! I want to gig at least 3 times every week. I know plenty of people on the scene who are doing more. I don't know if they selling any CDs though, I never asked.

Last fall I busked with another trad NOLA band, but better quality overall, and the guy who leads it, he was selling the CDs, records, USB drives with music, like hot cakes in Central Park! On average we would sell 15 - 20 items per 3 hour session. I wasn't getting any cut from it though, because he was paying royalties to musicians who are on it.

And my band I was talking about, yeah, only one album, that's all we got.

Dang... 300 copies of one single album ain't bad at all these days. And neither is 15-20 copies during a 3 hour busking session!!! Nothing to scoff at!

[Rhoderick]

Hello.
I think that this may interest you...




According to Billboard, Mozart sold a total of 1.25 million CDs in 2016, beating Drake, Kanye West and Beyoncé. The CD that caused the success is Mozart 225: The New Complete Edition, a whopping 200-CD collection that spans over 240 hours of music and includes additional hours worth of reading material bundled in.12 Dec 2016


Music is the key that can open strange rooms in the house of memory.

Llewelyn Wyn Griffith

[jordanklemons]

My man, Wolf! Get it!

[Vladan]

So, then, it's 6000 sets of 200CDs for 1.2 million copies?

[Cunamara]

My band made a CD about 6 years ago. Self-produced, etc., pretty low cost overall, and we had 150 printed. I think we have sold about 25 and gave away another 75 to friends, family and the odd fan. So we're one of the artists pulling the average down, I guess!

Re: nobody buys physical product any more. I do. I'm old, though, at 57. I prefer CDs to digital, books to digital, etc. However, the pricing seems to drive the trend towards digital- a digital album is 2/3 the price of a CD. For a book the digital version can be 1/4 the price of a hardcover. My guess is that the reduction in revenue for digital versus physical comes out of the artists' pockets, since the publishing industry is very, very good at getting its money first. Artists have been ripped off for billions and billions of dollars by shady contracts, cooked books and outright lies. Heck, I bet McCartney by himself got ripped off for a billion or more for sales of the Beatles tunes.

[Gilpy]

I don't even try to sell my CDs anymore. They are an outlet for my songwriting and guitar creativity. I play lots of gigs doing other peoples' stuff and my recordings are one thing I can do exactly as I want.
Even if I were to sell 1000 of my latest CD, it wouldn't compensate for the effort put into it, so why bother? I have my own studio and recording is cheap. I use my CDs as a promotional tool for my musical abilities, and make sure to give them to every musician I know. Many gigs and musical connections have resulted from people hearing my recordings. It's a way of reminding people that I am musically active, creative, and entertaining.

[unknownguitarplayer]

Many gigs and musical connections have resulted from people hearing my recordings. It's a way of reminding people that I am musically active, creative, and entertaining.

That's why I don't record. It's a reminder that I'm none of the above!