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  1. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77 View Post
    No they won't. They will keep asking people until they find a schmuck.

    Must work, presumably, otherwise they wouldn't do it.

    But you can try.
    The problem - at least in my area - is that we have a HUGE oversupply of musicians. Berklee, NEC, and Boston Conservatory are all within walking distance of each other. And as any first year econ student can tell you, when supply goes up, price goes down.

    The pros around here are in a rough spot. Even those who do get paying gigs don't make very much from them. None of the pros I know make their living solely from playing gigs. Most teach and/or have other side jobs.
    "I'm opposed to picketing, but I don't know to show it." --Mitch Hedberg

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boston Joe View Post
    The problem - at least in my area - is that we have a HUGE oversupply of musicians. Berklee, NEC, and Boston Conservatory are all within walking distance of each other. And as any first year econ student can tell you, when supply goes up, price goes down.

    The pros around here are in a rough spot. Even those who do get paying gigs don't make very much from them. None of the pros I know make their living solely from playing gigs. Most teach and/or have other side jobs.
    TBH Boston is obvious notorious for this, but I think if you want to make a living as a performer in most places you probably have to travel around a bit.

    In London there seems to be plenty of work for bands playing swing, standards with a singer etc, but getting on the hardcore jazz circuit can be difficult. Loads of great players, and there's no money in a lot of those gigs. Strictly for the love (unless you can get government funding), and a lot of those things are scenes - hanging out basically.

    Great when you are single, but less appealing when you are not, especially if you are playing in the evenings a lot. I love it when I do it - it's a beautiful community, but it's also not something I do a lot these days, so I understand I am not a priority for those types of gigs. Fair enough.

    In some ways if you are serious about doing the jazz scene thing, it may be better to take fewer gigs and do more teaching. Teaching lacks the stigma of other day jobs - it's still seen as 'music', and if you do it you can still describe yourself as a 'pro' for some reason. But in any case if you have your pet project - that works well.

    Anyway, the redeeming feature is that the oversupply in musicians is whittled away by addding the criteria of people willing to send emails to venues and promoters, chase gigs, send mailshots to the fans, make the bandleader's job easy, fill in forms, learning the frickin' music properly, book tours, drive the band to gigs and so on and so forth....

    Pat Metheny had to do this. I am not too good to do this :-)

    In many ways, being a musician full time resembles an office sales job far more than you might think. As Robert Fripp put it 'amateur musicians deal with music, professional musicians deal with business. If you want to serve music, that is the price you pay.'
    Last edited by christianm77; 10-30-2016 at 12:36 PM.

  4. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by Binyomin View Post
    How would that actually work? Your thumb and index fingers play Rashied Ali's drum patterns on muted strings and the rest of your fingers get to be 'Trane?
    No it's fine.It would be a string quartet, obviously;-)

  5. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77 View Post
    So, you get an email from a (non charity organisation) asking you to play 3 X 1 hour sets of smooth jazz classics and pop covers for no money, and they want you to wait around for 2 hours in the middle while they make their speeches. And play only white instruments, in white suits (the extra priviso is always the one that cracks me up.)

    The client is perhaps Versace, Louis Vuitton, or similar. (This is actually based on email a friend received.)

    So, of course you take the gig! Why?

    Just think of the damage you can do to their evening.

    Here's a starter - you play Coltrane's magnum opus Interstellar Space in it's entirety. After all - it's free, right?

    'Stop it, the celebrities are crying!'

    Any more ideas? The best one gets a special prize!

    First one to do this and put up the film on youtube gains my undying respect.
    I think these people are out of their minds. Either that or they're not serious.

  6. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77 View Post
    TBH Boston is obvious notorious for this, but I think if you want to make a living as a performer in most places you probably have to travel around a bit.
    Yeah. It's bad. So many great players, and the audience for jazz is mostly other players. So for any gig you get, if you want people to come, you have to go to all their gigs as well. You're out every night, pretty much. Travel-wise, I know a lot of guys who are doing gigs from New York to Maine. (Just for perspective, you can get from here to NYC and back in a day, but it'll be ALL day. It's about 4 1/2 hours each way, but you need to allow 6 because you can hit a major traffic jam anywhere along the way. So if you had an evening gig in NYC, you'd have to leave here mid day, and you wouldn't get back till maybe 5 am. So you need to have a friend you can crash with. You can avoid traffic by taking the train, but it's much harder to wrangle your gear.) There are some restaurant gigs in the suburbs, but a lot of them are locked down already.

    In many ways, being a musician full time resembles an office sales job far more than you might think. As Robert Fripp put it 'amateur musicians deal with music, professional musicians deal with business. If you want to serve music, that is the price you pay.'
    Yup, and I definitely suck at that part. I also suck at "the hang." I can't stand sitting around doing nothing, and I don't drink.
    "I'm opposed to picketing, but I don't know to show it." --Mitch Hedberg

  7. #56

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    Ironic that this thread has a free illegal movie upload in it.

  8. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by mittens View Post
    Ironic that this thread has a free illegal movie upload in it.
    The uploader's just a pale criminal - who has the courage of the knife, but not of the blood.

    PS I'm not the uploader, but having shared it - and attention having been drawn to it - I've removed and replaced it:
    Best troll for people asking you to play for nothing
    Last edited by destinytot; 03-08-2017 at 07:40 AM.

  9. #58

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    "Some day - and that day may never come - I'll call upon you to do a service for me..."
    Last edited by destinytot; 03-08-2017 at 04:55 AM. Reason: Wording

  10. #59

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    My idea is, "We'd be happy to play your function, but we need $50 (pick your number) per man per hour. We'll throw in the travel time, setup and breakdown for free if the gig is over 2 hours." That is, respond as if this is a negotiation and they opened with a lowball offer. It's a business, so proceed in a businesslike manner. Make a counteroffer. At worst, you'll leave with no gig but your self-respect intact.

    Easy for me to say, of course. I have a day gig.

  11. #60

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    Get drunk, play like crap and hit on super-models.
    That's what I would do.

  12. #61

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    Same as normal then?

  13. #62

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    I am not playing so much now

    but when I did more I did free jobs a few times when I considered that the experience (or exposure) was woth it (not a s leader of course)... but whenever I organized anything I always agreed to pay to the people I invited....
    Business taught me that people should feel rewarded for what they do - in some cases experience can be this reward (but in a way you should sell it)... but money is more clear and transparent

    When I began to play lute continuo in early music ensembles... there were two gourps I mostly played with: one was half pros/half amateur and was half a 'college' group: amateur were not paid (or even somtimes made some donations even).... maybe it's not that bad for a rich hobbiest to practice this way with very good professionals.
    It was nice, but the fact that people were not paid mad no discipline in it, the rehearsals, teh repertoire, the concerts were too messy... it was more about being around than doing music


    Another group were two very good pros (arch players) who wanted to have a plucked continuo instrument to play small chamber concerts (since organ and harpsichord are less portable than a lute). They had serious stable repertoire (something to work on and improve gradually)... and though I did very poor job (mostly decorating the stage with a lute - audinece like it) at the beginning they paid always in equal (once I even tried to take less, but they said: no, everybody will be paid equally).
    It was extremely motivating.... I knew that if I would not get good soon enough they will just calling me. In a way they invested in me.
    I think it's good way of organization. You do not make money your idol. But it's a good practical way to measure job.

    I always pay a part in advance if I agree on something long-term: it shows seriousness, respect, and implies resposibility.

    If the person is not reliable and does not do the job anyway, ok - then I most probably just got rid of him forever for smaller money.

  14. #63

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    Bill yourselves as "The Johnsons". After the first number, drop your drawers. "These are our Johnsons and we're doing this for the exposure". It was, afterall implicit in the offer.

    I think you'll even be able to get away with missing a change or two at that point.

    David

  15. #64

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    I think people are taking this thread more seriously than I intended :-)

  16. #65

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    Quote Originally Posted by TruthHertz View Post
    Bill yourselves as "The Johnsons". After the first number, drop your drawers. "These are our Johnsons and we're doing this for the exposure". It was, afterall implicit in the offer.

    I think you'll even be able to get away with missing a change or two at that point.

    David
    Although maybe not you :-)

    Unless.......

  17. #66

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    I think someone just made this up but the one thing that makes me think otherwise is 'smooth jazz classics'.

  18. #67

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77 View Post
    So, you get an email from a (non charity organisation) asking you to play 3 X 1 hour sets of smooth jazz classics and pop covers for no money, and they want you to wait around for 2 hours in the middle while they make their speeches. And play only white instruments, in white suits (the extra priviso is always the one that cracks me up.)

    The client is perhaps Versace, Louis Vuitton, or similar. (This is actually based on email a friend received.)

    So, of course you take the gig! Why?

    Just think of the damage you can do to their evening.

    Here's a starter - you play Coltrane's magnum opus Interstellar Space in it's entirety. After all - it's free, right?

    'Stop it, the celebrities are crying!'

    Any more ideas? The best one gets a special prize!

    First one to do this and put up the film on youtube gains my undying respect.
    I love threads like this because they confuse me at first.

    This would be my response to an email or phone call about a gig like this..
    Smooth jazz classics?........
    No one plays that middle class shit anymore. Goodbye.
    SLAM..

    That's it. Hang up on them.
    Last edited by Stevebol; 03-09-2017 at 10:26 PM.

  19. #68

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevebol View Post
    I love threads like this because they confuse me at first.

    This would be my response to an email or phone call about a gig like this..
    Smooth jazz classics?........
    No one plays that middle class shit anymore. Goodbye.
    SLAM..

    That's it. Hang up on them.
    I may have changed that bit. It was actually a string quartet

    What they want is ...like top 40 tunes but arranged to sound like y'know classical...

    Also the quartet must consist of 3 hot women and 1 man to show that they aren't completely sexist.

  20. #69

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77 View Post
    I may have changed that bit. It was actually a string quartet

    What they want is ...like top 40 tunes but arranged to sound like y'know classical...

    Also the quartet must consist of 3 hot women and 1 man to show that they aren't completely sexist.
    It's a genre, y'know. For conference events where music is unintimidating soundtrack and women are pop prostitutes. It's a gig. But not my cup of ipecac.
    David



    Last edited by TH; 03-10-2017 at 08:28 AM.

  21. #70

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    George Micheal was the last pop star and he's dead. When people say 'pop' I really don't know what the hell they're talking about.
    Carry on.....

  22. #71

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    Do it like Charles Mingus, a gourmand who once interrupted a concert to eat a steak dinner on the bandstand:
    Call the local beef & chicken service, start the gig with "Eat that Chicken" and play until the service is arriving - then enjoy your meal!








    You don't want to see your ugly selves, so you come to me, you sit in the front row, as noisy as can be. I listen to your millions of conversations, sometimes pulling them all up and putting them together and writing a symphony. But you never hear that symphony... You're here because jazz has publicity, jazz is popular, the word jazz, and you like to associate yourself with this sort of thing. But it doesn't make you a connaisseur of the art because you follow it around. You're dilettantes of style. - Charles Mingus

  23. #72

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    I don't get random emails about gigs but Craigslist is fun;

    seeking jazzy guitarist to work at home per hour alone

    get paid creating riffs

    do vocal hooks-record at home per hour mp3s

    It's all the same DJ/producer. He could just sample some old record but things are up in the air with lawsuits right now.
    Last edited by Stevebol; 03-10-2017 at 05:12 PM.

  24. #73

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevebol View Post
    George Micheal was the last pop star and he's dead. When people say 'pop' I really don't know what the hell they're talking about.
    Carry on.....
    What is Beyonce or Bruno Mars then?

  25. #74

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevebol View Post
    I don't get random emails about gigs but Craigslist is fun;

    seeking jazzy guitarist to work at home per hour alone

    get paid creating riffs

    do vocal hooks-record at home per hour mp3s

    It's all the same DJ/producer. He could just sample some old record but things are up in the air with lawsuits right now.
    Geez, what a great deal - not! "flip a bum a dime when in your prime...."

    That's some kinda cold, if you ask me....
    Best regards, k

  26. #75

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    Quote Originally Posted by TruthHertz View Post
    It's a genre, y'know. For conference events where music is unintimidating soundtrack and women are pop prostitutes. It's a gig. But not my cup of ipecac.
    David



    Thoughts

    1) Prostitutes get paid

    2) Pretend to be one of these bands and then show up to the gig four overweight gentleman in drag?

  27. #76

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77 View Post
    Thoughts

    1) Prostitutes get paid

    2) Pretend to be one of these bands and then show up to the gig four overweight gentleman in drag?
    Here ya go;



    We have the worst Top 40 bands in the world in Vegas.
    Last edited by Stevebol; 03-10-2017 at 07:25 PM.

  28. #77

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    This is the best 'corporate' band I've heard;



    That rhythm guitarist is extremely funky and the whole rhythm section is super tight.

  29. #78

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    Sing Allan Sherman songs out of tune (worked for him) with someone else doing Fat Jackie Vernon trumpet accompaniment (basically a screech).

    'Little David Susskind
    Shut up
    Please don't talk

    Little David Susskind
    Eat first
    Then you'll talk...'

    If they like it even a little go to Tiny Tim...

  30. #79

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevebol View Post
    This is the best 'corporate' band I've heard;



    That rhythm guitarist is extremely funky and the whole rhythm section is super tight.
    That mofo's scratching like a pack of wild dogs wandering into a flea zoo.

  31. #80

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thumpalumpacus View Post
    That mofo's scratching like a pack of wild dogs wandering into a flea zoo.
    He is good.