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So Steve, essentially you are saying that R&B is toast?
How are the Blues brothers and sisters doing? What draws an audience besides Beyoncé, Bieber, Taylor Swift, and rap? Country?
I like various styles, especially if they actually pay money to play. But on an artistic level, I still find jazz and the Great (American) Songbook to be my favorite pasture to graze. Perhaps less the bebop side of things rather than jazz ballads. I just find those beautiful. And I am a lover of beauty. I fail to understand how beautiful romantic lyrics and soulful elegant music can just 'go out of style'. Isn't most of life and music about the love and romance game?Last edited by targuit; 08-21-2016 at 10:58 AM.
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08-21-2016 10:50 AM
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I know, I know!
Originally Posted by TruthHertz
Mondays are rough. Maybe after September, when my work situation changes, I'll have the time and energy to go.
And you're right, there's tons of good stuff going on. I try to see as much as I can within the constraints of work and other activities.
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Pretty much. Rap replaced funk/R&B much the same as bop replaced swing. That's not to say swing is dead, it's just not what it used to be. This whole '80's' thing right now cracks me up. Young people are into the 80's. Why? This is 2016. Move on. Originally Posted by targuit
I saw this today;
It's not exactly Teena Marie and Sade.
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Its strange to think of music being "old" .. classical still has audience and many students of the art..elevator music..god..muzak!!..even that has fairly contemporary styles..I know what you mean though..but who would have thought Bob Dylan would be doing standards..you could be rich if you bet on that one.. Originally Posted by Cunamara
Yet..while not exactly "young" artists like Sting Billy Joel and others write and preform jazz flavored tunes..New Your State of Mind is an example and I have heard jazz players punch the hell out of it..giving it new life..there are some arrangements of Cole Porters work that is very "today" his lyrics are timeless and animated and seem to transcend time..and inspire the imagination.."..trips to the moon on gossamer wings.." some of todays artists would have fun with that kind of stuff..
while time is not waiting for anyone..even todays named guys are getting gray...or have been for a while..McLaughlin is in his mid 70's Hancock is 76..Corea 75..
are we waiting for some hot 20 somethings to do their version of Parker Trane Monk Miles..they are doing it ! we may have to wait till the world catches up with them..not long ago-2011-Sonny Rollins was recognized for his achievements in Jazz..He is 85!..
Time is strange..electric guitar really became popular via the beatles and 60s music..jazz in terms of the guitars place in it is still young..and changing as new players introduce new approaches and technology..who will be surprised to hear music of the 40's revisited through several layers of hi-tech filters played in a way that high school kids listen to on their cell phones
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Actually, I'm not that surprised. I read a story once about the Traveling Wilburys. They were doing a gig in Vegas, and one of them (Jeff Lynn, I think) came in and said, "I got tickets for Sammy Davis Jr. Who's in?" Apparently Dylan jumped at it, saying something like, "I love that stuff!" Originally Posted by wolflen
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No, but I will look then up. Originally Posted by edh
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Originally Posted by Boston Joe
I love Vegas. I finally got a hold of a realtor so my house is for sale in Milwaukee. Vegas here I come.
The only thing you can't hear in Vegas is old school funk/R&B. It seems to have everything else. Cameo of course is the real deal in funk and they have a residency there now.
It only took them 40 years to land a steady gig.
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Charlie Christian said- I don't take out my guitar unless it's to have fun, learn something or make money. Originally Posted by targuit
I was like that instinctively until my late 20's. Now I remind myself of that quote all the time.
What's great about jam bands is it's all about fun. Occasionally you can learn or teach something.
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Music doesn't die. It morphs or goes back where it came from. R&B went back to church where it came from but I'm starting to hear some R&B that has religious themes played in clubs. Originally Posted by targuit
I always though there was a secular side to funk/R&B but we're not needed any more. Life goes on without me.
Who says you can't sing about Jesus in the club? Why not?
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You can, but when I find myself out somewhere and I hear a song that has an overt religious message, it creeps me out. I guess that's just what centuries of religious persecution can do. Originally Posted by Stevebol
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Jesus told me to quit R&B and go get a janitor job. Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles
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What does he know? He lived with his parents. Originally Posted by Stevebol
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according to some..he still does.. Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles
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Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles
It seemed like a good idea at the time.
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There are a lot of great jazz musicians in the San Diego area, but I don't know what the gigging opportunities are there.
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I don't know where to go listen to jazz in San Diego, and I've lived here all my life! Also, It is notoriously one of the least affordable cities in the US. We are 20% less expensive than SF or NYC, but on average we make half as much.
So... Most def NOT San Diego.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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I'm guessing that a lot of musicians in Southern California live in the Inland Empire and commute to gigs in the LA and the coastal areas, just like other workers. I know a drummer in Riverside who gigs from LA out to Palm Desert to up in the mountains where I live. He is one of those reliable guys who can play in any setting. One of my son's teachers gigs mostly locally, but also drives out to Hermosa Beach regularly, where he is the musical director for a synagogue.
Sometimes you can find a niche in small tourist areas. I live in Idyllwild, a town of about 3000, and we have three venues that have live music regularly, and a lot of it is jazz. We have a school for the arts here and a jazz festival that form a hub. My son has become the local go-to bassist when people from out of town come to play. This summer he got to play gigs with guitarists Doug MacDonald, Bob Boss, and Tom Hynes, as well as drummer Tim Pleasant and pianist Mark Massey. A few days ago he got paid to play free jazz behind a slam poetry event. He also sets up his own gigs with classmates and his brother.
So you might look at tourist areas that have art, yoga, wineries, etc., where wealthy baby boomers like to visit. We are close to the Palm Desert area, so a lot of retirees like to come up here in the summer to get out of the heat. There are also a lot of gay people in that area who have disposable income, no kids, and like culture.
Of course, actually making a living is a different question. All of the local musicians here either have day jobs, are students, or are retired.
Otherwise, you have to tour the niche circuit. Most places are no more likely to have a jazz scene than a bluegrass or polka scene. I know a top jazz violinist who says he is treated like a king when he tours in Asia.Last edited by Jonzo; 09-03-2016 at 01:32 PM.
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South Korea, China, even Mongolia, etc., may be the upcoming places for jazz musicians.
Recently, a large, publicly funded study was published on the 'Life And Working Conditions Of Jazz Musicians In Germany': http://jazzstudie2016.de/jazzstudie2016_small.pdf
Just a focus on their financial situation (translated, pages 56 f.):
"50% of the jazz musicians have a total annual income [net income after tax] of up to 12.500 Euro [ca. 14,000 USD]. However, this sum also includes income from non-musical activities. Taking only the income from independent jazz performances and teaching activities, there are nearly 70% (69%) earning maximally 12.500 Euros. With such a low income, most of the jazz musicians live on the edge of subsistence. Only about 10% of the respondents earn an income of more than 20.000 Euros [ca. 22,300 USD]."
Not what I would call an easy life! These data should be quite comparable all over in central Europe, in general may be a little bit better only in parts of Scandinavia. Of course, the results above don't tell all about the happiness of jazz musicians in Germany. Some bankers, lawyers, doctors, businessmen, etc. who earn a multiple thereof, seem to feel less happy - unknowingly or underneath their cool big front - than the musicians I know personally.
Where we find something that is like music, there we have to stay; in life there's nothing else to be striven for than the feeling of music, the feeling of covibration and rhythmic life, the harmonious justification for existence. - Hermann Hesse, 1910Last edited by Ol' Fret; 09-05-2016 at 01:41 PM.
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Hi Ol' Fret. Thanks for the detailed response. Very interesting, as I am often told to try Germany, especially Berlin. And you are in Germany it seems, and have done a bit of research, so it is good to hear news from an on-ground source. China and Korea I sort of understand (and I bet Japan still has its boosters), but ... Mongolia? Great quote from Hermann Hesse, by the way. Of course he didn't have to rely on music to support him. Which takes nothing away from the truth of the statement. Thanks to all for the responses on this thread.
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Guitboxer, since the reunification Berlin is by far the hippest place in Germany to go for any creative artist. Each year about 15,000 creative people from all over the world move to Berlin trying to take their chance. It's a bit like in the vibrant 1920s.
>> Berlin still magically attracts artists and creative people. Since 20 years the city is a "huge transfer station in the global art system". That is, many come and go, and comparatively few remain permanently. This fluctuation is mainly responsible for that so far no spatially [and mentally] delimited creative society has formed. Instead, Berlin proved to be an open and tolerant city, where more internationally becoming networks, project spaces and initiatives are acting as productive centers. <<
From my own, quite limited experience I would confirm this. To be fair, you have to know that since about five years in Berlin the cost are rising faster than incomes. Other German cities like Frankfurt, Hamburg and Munich are nice, though (much) more expensive, politically regulated and restricted in respect of "free zones" for jazz musicians.
Some (originally) Munich-based musicians have taken appointments to teach jazz in Seoul like Michael Lutzeier (bari sax) or Martin Zenker (bass). The latter was also teaching in Ulan Bator Take Five With Martin Zenker . Other musicians like Paul Kirby (piano) are also (relatively) enthused to be in Seoul, or continue to teach and perform in Europe, Russia and the Far East, like Damon Brown (trumpet).
Of course, there are far more international jazz musicians busy in the Far East, not only the mentioned ones, here playing together: .
Today, I pointed to a link with notes from Sonny Stitt (1965), concerning the exceptional flexibility that is being demanded from jazz musicians: >> One thing about my playing now - I’m not as tense as I used to be. But, you know, travelling around the world, eating out of restaurants and tin cans - it will make you tense. Don’t think it won’t. It’s not the same as being able to go home and relax, have your nice dinner and look at your kids. That’s the way it is, though. I have to go out on the road and make it for my family. I do it all for them. No preference. <<
Apropos Hesse: during the inflation years in the 1920s, Hermann Hesse was almost penniless. After WW 1 he had mainly moved to the Tessin in Switzerland, then a region where the living cost were much less expensive than they were in Berlin or Zurich at the same time. He had to live from rice, beans and bread, and he wore patched clothes. One of Hesse's most intense and productive periods for writing and painting...Last edited by Ol' Fret; 09-05-2016 at 05:30 PM.
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Hesse - one of my favorite authors. Brilliant.
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Don't know that it has more going on than NY---NY is thriving (most gigs are low-paying, what else is new?). But it has Bootsie Barnes, John Swana and others in a nice, close-knit scene and may be a good place to get started... Originally Posted by Nate Miller
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I got fed up with NYC and moved to the Hague in '07. Lot of good players there, and I had first gone in '01---right after 9-11---and had a great time. Had to return home in '07 for lack of a visa, otherwise I'd still be there.
A guitar player named Dan Nicholas started his own scene. He hires guest soloists, well-known in the Netherlands, to play with Equinox, his band, every week at a joint called Pavlov. That's one way to do it.
Some guys I met and played with who would be aces anywhere:
Juraj Stanik, piano
Peter Beets, piano
Ferdinand Povel, tenor (didn't play with him, wish I had)
Bob Wijnen, piano
Rene Winter, drums
Simon Rigter, tenor
Frans Elsen (deceased), piano
Uli Glazmann, bass
etc.Last edited by fasstrack; 09-08-2016 at 08:27 PM.
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Wow, the Hague. That is interesting. I would not have imagined that either, so here is the great thing about asking around. Funny enough, I have been looking at Amsterdam, for a number of reasons. I am not so connected to Germany, I like being close to the sea, have family in France, best friends in Belgium, access to all those what I consider central areas of Europe is good, plus the UK is a hop away. Transportation is excellent. Minds are still (for now) relatively open. There is, unlike Spain where I am now, money that circulates. Why did you choose the Hague over Amsterdam or some other city in the region? Maybe I should consider there instead? Thanks for the chat. It is illuminating.
Last edited by guitboxer; 10-31-2016 at 01:23 PM.
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San Diego was very hip in the 80's. It was sort of an underground scene. We had overseas connections. It was a lot like Minneapolis. A relatively small AA population but everyone seemed to know everyone else. We didn't have a Prince but there were career opportunities overseas. Generally all trends from the west coast hit San Diego first. So-called gangster rap was there long before it hit Compton.
A lot of things happened at once. We still don't know what happened to the circuit overseas. Then there were all the military base closings a few years later. The USSR fell apart and the Japanese economy crashed hard.
Now I'd say San Diego is really nice, it's a beautiful city but very expensive.
I never went back.
I'd guess San Diego is typical in regards to jazz. There's a lot of money there and where there's money there's going to be interest in jazz. It was #1 in underground funk/R&B but that's ancient history.
Great place to chill out and take a vacation.
Jonzo summed it up. I haven't been there in ages.
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