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It's awkward being caught in the middle. But when you say pro that's a pretty wide field. There's pros and pros.... Also how many players make their money from playing full time?
Originally Posted by Boston Joe
I sometimes wonder if there's less of a divide between amateurs and pros than the amateurs feel. It's not like someone comes along with a crown and goes 'now you are a pro' when you attain level 25 jazz guitar.
I know some mediocre players who are pros because they are great at getting work....
On the other hand I often play with 'amateur' players who are every bit as good as many pros. What you do to pay the bills doesn't matter. And you should try and play with the best players you can summon up the courage to ask. Best way to learn.... :-) Easier said than done.Last edited by christianm77; 04-22-2016 at 03:37 PM.
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04-22-2016 03:33 PM
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Well, I define "pros" as "guys who want to be paid for playing with me."
I'm hoping that at some point (maybe when I hit retirement age
) I'll get called for gigs every now and then.
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one important thing I get from playing gigs that I can't get in practice, even in rehearsal, is that in practice and rehearsal I am never in the "I have to get this exactly right" situation. If I miss some notes, or stop, or lose your place, there is no "penalty", except on a gig. And making a mistake has a deep effect that sticks immediately, whereas the same mistake in practice might not have any effect.
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Ha. You're a guitar player. Guitar players hustle gigs. Originally Posted by Boston Joe
Well, I define "pros" as "guys who want to be paid for playing with me."
I'm hoping that at some point (maybe when I hit retirement age ) I'll get called for gigs every now and then.
Doesn't matter who you are. Metheny did it. So should we all.
If you hustle, and you get better, occasionally when every pianist a sax player knows is doing a gig you might get the call :-)
I exaggerate, but I know very few guitarists who don't lead bands and hustle gigs.
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Clearly, you've never tried to work in Boston. Originally Posted by christianm77
In any case, been there, done that, not doing it any more.
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Ha, I would avoid Boston like the plague. Talk about bringing coals to newcastle. Originally Posted by Boston Joe
But any case I'm not quite clear on the logic. Surely a town full of great guitar players would mean you would have to hustle even harder?
Actually being surrounded by amazing guitar players all the time would certainly be good for my chops, and would certainly straighten out any remaining ego issues I have. That said I would probably need to find a different source of income too... :-)
But that said, it's got to better than living in the middle of nowhere for finding people to play with. I suppose playing the bass in guitar town is the way to go though...Last edited by christianm77; 04-22-2016 at 06:24 PM.
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One hits a point of diminishing returns. Originally Posted by christianm77
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Yeah, playing bass in guitar town gets you a lot of calls. At one time I was involved with 3 different music projects/bands. Originally Posted by christianm77
I could play different styles of bass to a degree (funk, jazz, rock etc), but I was not a master of any.
I think the reason I got the calls was because I had a 100 watt stack and transport! Lol.
On the flip side, when I moved to Scotland I took up learning jazz guitar. So I ended up in a rural area where all the pub/bar sessions were blues, rock and trad Scottish folk tunes. When you played any jazzy tunes or 'exotic' extensions very few (actually none) people would join in.
The audience was used to folk music to the extent that both my wife (clarinettist) and I played show tunes and film themes at a party it became increasingly apparent that we were background muzak to the general hubbub interspersed with polite applause. When the Woman with the Ukelele came on playing trad Scottish tunes and introspective singer songwriter songs you could hear a pin drop (which is generally louder than a Uke). Cue rapturous applause and admiration. Ah well.
Now I'm in the Wirral in the NW of England I'm spoilt for choice for genres and possibilities.
Yeah, being in a band/ensemble does make you a better player.
You have to learn to listen to what everyone is doing and be able to 'fit in' to the sonic sound scape you are contributing to.
The ability to judge your output and your choice of notes to add flavour is a valuable attribute.
Incidentally, the band I'm in at the moment, we dropped our first bass player and I volunteered to take over but it was not viable as I don't have that 100 watt stack or transport any more. Lol.
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I have worked in Boston for many years with alot of great players, and not as often now since guarantees from venues are fewer. Things always shift and change, and the challenges that exist for working creative musicians now exist in most places globally as many know. I feel it is best to always remind ourselves of what brought us into music in the first place. For most it is to advance in all capacities on the instrument, work with better players, create our music, and develop our own voice. We can always create new opportunities both musically and entrepreneurially at any time as is evident from past collectives in New York with some of the great players existing today. This site is a great example of a community or collective of sorts. Just my add to the fold.
What all have replied to the original post is very true. In our practice mindset we study, learn, process and grow. When we do sessions or gigs we can only arrive with who we are and what we have at that moment. The music is always the best teacher in how it directs you back to what to shed towards improving our musicianship. What was mentioned earlier is so true about seeing our own pathways of learning. Little lights, (or big ones) of self discovery open up with new ways of seeing and other possibilities of learning.
Thanks, Jim
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Thing is, I got into jazz seriously only after I'd found myself a decent non-musical career. My experience hustling for gigs was primarily on the Boston rock scene which is just hell. (I mean seriously - if you ever want to be reminded of your insignificance in the world, try getting a rock band off the ground in Boston.) Maybe the jazz scene is different, but I'm sufficiently beat down not to want to get into it. It's something you can do as a wide-eyed 20 year old, but as an introverted, misanthropic 50 year-old, I just don't see myself doing that.
Once I have enough experience, I may try getting some gigs out in the burbs, but I have no desire to engage with the commercial end of music in the city.
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I almost felt sorry for you until I remembered you can go hear Jerry Bergonzi whenever you want...I'd rather go hear him than play guitar! Originally Posted by Boston Joe
;-)
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ROFL! Yes! Pity me! Originally Posted by pkirk
I haven't been to see him yet. It's on the agenda.
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Times have changed, for sure. I lived in Boston for many years, and for several of those years did 400 gigs annually. By the time I left, doing half that many was getting very difficult. But hustle is the name of that game, along with versatility and reliability. I am still in touch with many of the leading players there, and the general take is that times are really tough for jobbing musicians unless one has very good theater or symphonic credentials.
It's rough out there, but not impossible.
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On the plus side, at least you have an ensemble to play with!
Out here in the Midwest, even most of the free gigs are sucked up by university profs and their current students.
Amazing how much money is not getting made while music is getting played. The solo singer songwriter/cover guys do much better.
My little duo / trio / quartet situation gets the occasional paid show, but its all networking outside the music world.
There's gotta be a nice pizza joint, micro brew or art gallery in your area that would like a little music?
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That's what I'm thinking. Maybe a few months down the road when things are a little more solid. Originally Posted by Longways to Go
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