What kind of jazz are you playing?

[targuit]

What kind of jazz are you playing?

This is a question directed primarily to those making a living or trying at least playing jazz professionally. Not to set artificial boundaries in music, but it seems to me that the repertoire for jazz musicians has a kind of fundamental watershed between jazz pre-1950's and the evolution of modal jazz approaches as well as hard core bebop and their evolution today. Clearly they both have common roots, but the distinction is for the sake of discussion.

I am trying to create a solo or small group (duo, trio) performance repertoire in the hope of earning money in some fashion playing jazz today. Apart from the fact that that proposal might qualify me for home confinement as a nut case in our US culture today - thinking of competing against country, rap, pop and the other styles that actually do earn some scarce entertainment dollars in our society today - there are certain criteria for "mass appeal' to the jazz audience out there - all 100 or them or so.

We no longer live in the era of big bands or very thriving jazz enclaves in major cities and small towns. The venues for jazz performance seem quite constricted, so you have to try to be 'inclusive' and think a bit about what the potential audience wants to hear. Some of these venues include restaurants, bars, private or corporate affairs presumably. The question is, especially to solo or small group performers, what kind of repertoire do you play to be commercially viable.

One of the goals I set for myself over the last ten or fifteen years was explicitly to learn a significant chunk of the Great American Songbook of classic standards from the twentieth century essentially. The typical jazz standards from All Of Me through Waltz for Debby, so to speak. Many of those tunes are often from the preBop and preModal era of jazz and can lend themselves to a solo format as evidenced by performers like Joe Pass. (No intention to compare myself to the King, other than the one man and a guitar performance format.) I always felt that these tunes embodied jazz history but also were palatable and meaningful to the general audience. They are sophisticated musically but also tunes that the public can go home humming in their car.

But now I'm wondering if that day is over. I'm in the 'autumn of my life' as they say. Since I was a kid in the Fifties and Sixties, I heard songs like Misty, ATTYA, Autumn Leaves.... they are a part of the soundtrack of my life. But having reached a point where these songs are a viable part of my real repertoire as a solo player, are these songs relevant any longer?

Do people still ask you to "Play Misty for me?"

[Cunamara]

That money is not scarce as such. The is probably less of it than there was say 40 years ago, but it is funneled into a much smaller number of pockets who are looking out for themselves first and foremost. The public's musical tastes among mainstream artists is limited into narrow (profitable) bands because not much else is offered to them. Most popular stuff sounds more or less alike; indie stuff offers some options. This is as much a comment on me as on the music, but I cannot tell one hip hop song or one hip hop artist from another. I cannot distinguish Miley Cyrus from Selena Gomez from Taylor Swift from any one of three dozen other femal singers. I can sometimes pick out Beyonce, who really does have some pipes.

I think that jazz falls into the indie side of music now. People who make a living at it do so in a self-directed entrepreneurial way. The Bill Evans approach of "only focus on the music and you'll make it" approach is just no longer feasible- and it was barely feasible then. A friend of mine who quit her day job to sing jazz figured that out and told me that 90% of making a living at music happens off-stage: curating an audience, developing relationships with venues and with musicians, carefully developing a repertoire, having a set of themed shows to hook the audience, etc. That said, this is the music she loves- the standards of the 30s-50s. That's the other point she made, you have to play the music you love to hear and believe in it. If you're not, the audience will be able to tell.

[targuit]

Thanks, Cunamara. I always appreciate your insights.

In my experience learning the standards just became part of the process. Not painful because I like that music. The swing era, Jerome Kern, Johnny Mandel, Henry Mancini, Jimmy Van Heusen type songs. I heard Sinatra and Nat King Cole singing them as a child. I liked me then instinctively. I still do. But I guess I question whether they are still 'relevant' in other people's life soundtrack.

In other words, if you are sitting at a bar with friends and a solo guitarist is playing guitar and singing, would you rather hear Angel Eyes or Van Morrison or Lady Antebellum? For me the answer as a member of the audience would be clear, but my taste is not the issue.

[nick1994]

Thanks, Cunamara. I always appreciate your insights.

In my experience learning the standards just became part of the process. Not painful because I like that music. The swing era, Jerome Kern, Johnny Mandel, Henry Mancini, Jimmy Van Heusen type songs. I heard Sinatra and Nat King Cole singing them as a child. I liked me then instinctively. I still do. But I guess I question whether they are still 'relevant' in other people's life soundtrack.

In other words, if you are sitting at a bar with friends and a solo guitarist is playing guitar and singing, would you rather hear Angel Eyes or Van Morrison or Lady Antebellum? For me the answer as a member of the audience would be clear, but my taste is not the issue.

my experience with standards is that they are good for background music, I've played plenty of cafe's and restaurants where nobody is listening. I have yet to experience a gig where people actually come to listen instead of eat, chat or get drunk. I've never done a solo gig though, so maybe that's different.

[TheGrandWazoo]

I've been considering just setting up recitals/house concerts with other musicians. It's a ways away but I don't want to play for diners but people listening even if it means the gig just paying for itself.

[cosmic gumbo]

I guess the real question is how many places do you know of that you could go and hear the kind of jazz you're talking about within the area that you'd like to work in? In most places this market doesn't exist. If it did, a lot of us would be gigging much more.

[grahambop]

I am trying to create a solo or small group (duo, trio) performance repertoire in the hope of earning money in some fashion playing jazz today. Apart from the fact that that proposal might qualify me for home confinement as a nut case in our US culture today - thinking of competing against country, rap, pop and the other styles that actually do earn some scarce entertainment dollars in our society today - there are certain criteria for "mass appeal' to the jazz audience out there - all 100 or them or so.

I have no experience of jazz gigs, but for a wider audience I would suggest you 'theme' it somehow and don't mention the dreaded 'j-word'. Call your show 'Tunes from the Sinatra Songbook' for example, then you could play almost anything. If you want to play a tune he didn't do, just say 'For a change, here's one of the rare tunes Frank didn't record, but it was sung by (name appropriate singer e.g. Ella/Nat King Cole/Tony Bennett/June Christie etc. etc.) so we thought we'd include it anyway'.

If I was trying to be a pro jazz guitarist, I would learn the Django style (which I would like to play anyway), then market a 'Gypsy/Swing Jazz' evening. I'd start with some pure acoustic gypsy stuff, then the 'Swing' title would justify bringing out the electric guitar, playing some Charlie Christian/Benny Goodman stuff and playing up his influence on rock'n'roll, Chuck Berry etc. Then I could sneak in a few bebop / post-bop tunes on the sly. Most of the general public wouldn't notice much difference anyway.

[targuit]

So essentially, Graham, you would 'specialize' your sets around Gypsy Jazz. But would that not restrict your audience even less in one sense? I guess what I'm trying to understand is if there is still an audience that wants to hear the standards that are often composed in the first half of the twentieth century rather than more the latter?

When I think about my own tastes, they are pretty eclectic, but in the jazz sphere I spent years learning the standards because I like them. I like their lyrical nature, swinging, "dancing" character and rhythm. I love playing ballads that have an emotional side - something that the audience identifies with the great singers of the past. The kind of song they might sing in the car or the shower.

But is this a sign of a generational thing? I mean my generation are less likely to be partying it up in a tavern towards midnight than their kids. It would not be a stretch for me to include country music, though pop would be tough 'cause I don't know the music my son listens to much. In terms of some bebop and modal jazz tunes, the latter could be doable, though I see that type of song more as a quartet or other larger ensemble type thing, again with a more limited appeal audience wise.

I'm thinking along the same lines as you on the Sinatra Book type presentation. The dreaded J word...

[Little Jay]

In the town I live in (The Hague, Netherlands) there's a conservatory with a prestigious jazz department, so there's a lot of jazz and mostly bebop to be heard in cafés and bars around town. But mostly it's jam sessions by conservatory students for conservatory students, no money to be made. In fact, I know of several places who started out with asking conservatory students for jam sessions or gigs, but after a while switched to more popular music.

My 4tet plays a kind of simplified groove jazz with danceable rhythms and we get envious looks from the bebop-guys when they see our agenda. We get to play the places that stopped programming bebop and other jazz-styles, because we bring in a larger audience. (But don't get me wrong, if I was able to play bebop as skilled as they can, I might be frustrated to be forced to adapt the music to the audience's taste!)

I consider myself very lucky that my 4tet has 2 monthly regular restaurant gigs where we can play our own music in a much more quiet and intimate way - even our own compositions! - and people dig it.

In general over here there is a market for playing jazz, but you have to carefully adjust what you play to the specific situation in the particular venue, and mostly accept that you are going to be background music. There is a number of bars that program live jazz where you can play any jazz in any way you want it, but the payment generally is next to nothing, because their revenue is not enough to pay a decent fee a musician could live off. Playing restaurants is more attractive, but you have to sell yourself as 'instrumental background music on a level that doesn't disturb the public in their diner-conversation'.

Well, you can probably see why I didn't quit the day-job yet......

[targuit]

Must be a worldwide phenomena - global jazz poverty. Does anybody make a living anymore?

At least you find an audience. I can swing more R&Bish in some ways, too, as George Benson once commented in an interview when Larry King asked his how he garnered the focus of the broader audience when he broke big. Little Jay, I had the privilege of seeing GB perform on February 27, 1973 in Boston at a seriously good jazz club in those days, The Jazz Workshop. Special guest - Earl Klugh. A youngster at the time. Like me. (sigh) Sitting at a front table about a couple of meters from the man with his trio or quartet. I think the later. But he was human - right there playing and singing a couple of tunes. He was a great jazz player but I got to see him up close and personal. Great experience.

Anyway he said he had brought more jazz into the popular sphere with a hint of R&B to get the dancing back into the equation. And I still think he is right. But the night I saw him he sang tunes like What Are You Doing the Rest of Your Life, Tenderly, Mambo Inn... . He is a performer as well as jazz artist. I'm referring to that as the direction I think is the only viable jazz direction monetarily unless you are talking upper echelon tiers like Dianna Krall or Eliane Elias, Keith Jarrett (who is playing in NY city this first week of February, I think the 3rd.

Oh, btw, at my age (do the math) I'm not delusional about "breaking big" - just to supplement the till. Nice that you play your original tunes. I'm working on a few now.

[mr. beaumont]

The only jazz gigs I'm being called for right now are gypsy jazz. It's got a hipster following here in Chicago. It's not my favorite, but it's fun, I've been offered at least one a month so I've been taking them.

I haven't actively been pursuing my wallpaper jazz gigs, too busy, not many in my immediate area, and I'm kind of tired of playing "Night and Day" while people eat spaghetti.

I've been actively working on the music I want to do, going to record hopefully in the next few weeks and see what happens. It's not going to have a wide audience, might go over at some smaller places on the northwest side of town...but I don't really care. I've decided I need to make the music I want to make.

[targuit]

I'd play "O Sole Mio" if someone would pay me. My son likes to eat for some reason.

Good luck with the recording, Jeff! Originals or standards? Do you play much of the Jerome Kern, Johnny Mandel type songs or are they passé?

[mr. beaumont]

I'd play "O Sole Mio" if someone would pay me. My son likes to eat for some reason.

Good luck with the recording, Jeff! Originals or standards? Do you play much of the Jerome Kern, Johnny Mandel type songs or are they passé?

LOL, well let me be clear--so will I. I'll even sing it if it means a tip


Kern, Mandel? Masters. I never get tired of playing tunes I like...Someday I want to do a whole Jerome Kern record and call it KE R N IN G

Anybody get that?

But my own music has a different direction. Originals...free improv...off the beaten path tunes...

I'm working on a "jazz version" of Freddy Fender's "Before the next teardrop falls," for example, as well as polishing up tunes like "Fall" and "Nefertiti" and Metheny's "James."

Jay, solos where it's at if you want to make money. And don't call it jazz!

It's not an easy way to make a living though. I've had to do it a few times in my life and I happily went back to a "day" job when I could.

[Nate Miller]

Me, I have a job that pays a hell of a lot more than being a musician, so maybe I'm not who you want commenting here, but I have booked a trio here in central PA for a lot of the last 18 years, so I do have some idea about what you're getting into.

My trio plays strait ahead jazz. Right out of the 50s. Its mostly standards, with some bop, Coltrane tunes, and a few latin numbers mixed in. We mix up tempos, too, so it isn't all higher, louder, faster all night.

Guitar trio is has an advantage of being easy to talk to the person next to you. I hear that from people alot

We played lots of restraunts, hotels, cafes...but we've also done stuff with the city and some of their outdoor festivals. We used to do a lot of stuff for the local Arts Society being entertainment for some of their functions. So if your town has any cultural groups out there or seasonal festivals, talk to them.

Another thing is that sometimes I've booked us in regular bars that have live bands, but aren't jazz clubs. I mean at all. But whenever a bar owner takes a chance on us, we do pretty good in those places, too. I think that's because I play a pretty hard driving style. Hell, if you got a jazz trio that's working up a sweat, you can book that just about anywhere.

So don't just look for places that have jazz. Some years you'll hurt your eyes looking for clubs that will actually book a jazz combo

[grahambop]

KE R N IN G

Anybody get that?

Haha nice one, I had to look it up though!

[mr. beaumont]

Haha nice one, I had to look it up though!

Thought it could have a great "Reid Miles" Blue Note style cover.

[grahambop]

Thought it could have a great "Reid Miles" Blue Note style cover.

I think that would be .....justified.

[mr. beaumont]

I think that would be .....justified.

I see what you did there.

[Gilpy]

Like the OP, I'm older. I've played 3000+ gigs and still work a couple of times a week.
Number of pure jazz gigs played? Zero. I play jazz at home or, rarely, sitting in with local guys.

Here in Tucson AZ (pop. 1,000,000) there is a jazz appreciation society, we have a yearly Jazz festival, a few big name jazz concerts, and NPR plays trad jazz all night. There are maybe a couple dozen guys that specialize in Jazz, and they have to really work to get jobs. The handful that are full time pros do lots of non-jazz gigs too.

The gypsy jazz thing is popular (relatively) . I think because it swings so hard, it's easy for people to get a handle on it.

I never see any young people at a jazz show. If you're going to play music that appeals to older persons, you have to get gigs where they are. Around here that includes retirement communities and RV/tourist resorts. They all have clubhouses with entertainment and are a good source of income for musicians around here. Believe it or not, audiences can be fun and appreciative.

[targuit]

Arizona, here I come .....

You are probably right. My future will be entertaining 'senior citizens'.... Dang, I'll be one of them soon enough if I live that long.

[entresz]

I'm playing swing and bop... stuff from the 30's to the 50's or so. A bit of latin music too. I live in Tasmania, Australia... small population, the entire state has a population of half a million people... audiences small, and paid work is hard to find. I still get to perform twice a week usually- I'm lucky in that regard. There are many good players around here that don't perform much at all.

[nick1994]

I'd play "O Sole Mio" if someone would pay me. My son likes to eat for some reason.

I once played in an italian community show and we had to play some of those dusty old canzone napulitane, hokey tarantelle and some really bad renditions of some beautiful aria. It was a disaster, but it was still fun, there was a mandolina, fisarmonica, guitar and the singer. we sounded horrible, but at least we got through the night. But we didn't get paid and we were not professional musicians just locals and they needed a guitar player so I helped them out.

[Stevebol]

I might have to give up on R&B after I move if something doesn't happen soon after that. Jazz might be in my future then.
It will take about 2 years with a teacher. I'll have to get used to clearing out the club and playing for musicians.
I'd rather play for rich people and women but whatever.

[mrcee]

I might have to give up on R&B after I move if something doesn't happen soon after that. Jazz might be in my future then.
It will take about 2 years with a teacher. I'll have to get used to clearing out the club and playing for musicians.
I'd rather play for rich people and women but whatever.

C'mon!! The jazz world needs more players from an R&B background. Nah, you won't clear the club. Those rich, ageing beach bunnies in Cali will be throwing their panties at you while you play Giant Steps behind your back.

[Stevebol]

C'mon!! The jazz world needs more players from an R&B background. Nah, you won't clear the club. Those rich, ageing beach bunnies in Cali will be throwing their panties at you while you play Giant Steps behind your back.

Jazz will be fine without me but I'll go through the motions. Play songs I don't even like. I told my mom I play poorly on purpose sometimes. She didn't like that.