The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #1

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    Quick post, to rally the guitar playing masses:

    Guitar is better than piano because:

    We can tune the instrument on the spot. I think I found it, the reason why we are better.

    Yeah, they can play denser chords, bass lines with more movement, they have a wider range...

    But an out of tune piano ain't worth its salt on the stage, especially if it ain't in tune to itself.

    Can I get an amen?



    That sounded slightly out of tune as well.

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2

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    amen

  4. #3

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    And it is a helluva lot lighter to carry around....

  5. #4

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    Amen!!!

  6. #5

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    Touching the strings both on the fretting end and plucking end is a big advantage for expression.

  7. #6

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    Have to play devils advocate that's just me....

    Without a piano I have to provide the harmony all night.
    Without a piano there is no harmony behind my solo (hummm get away with murder there).
    Without a piano no place to put my drink and it not get knocked over.
    Without a piano if I don't know the tune I have to dance.
    Without a piano I have to create intro's and ending's to everything.
    Without a piano who am I going to get a ride to the gig with the bass and drummer's cars are full of gear.
    Without a piano who can I point at when sax doesn't like the chords behind his solo.
    Without a piano player who's going to book the gigs the trumpet player?
    Without a piano usually the straight laced guy in the group who are we going to leave the check with at Denny's.
    Without a piano player who's going to find the rest of the band when the break is over.
    Without a piano player who we going to send the drunk with a request to.
    Without a piano player who we going to blame that we can't (don't want to) play that request.
    Without a piano player who going yell at us for wearing jeans to a wedding gig.

    The piano player has a very important role in the band.
    Last edited by docbop; 12-20-2015 at 04:31 PM.

  8. #7

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    Sonny Rollins, for the most part, always uses a guitar and not a piano for his group. He considers the piano too dominant an instrument and and the piano generally steers the song harmonically, rhythmically, etc. and Sonny wants to steer the song..
    Last edited by Flat5; 12-21-2015 at 01:53 AM.

  9. #8

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    for comping piano wins. for every decent guitar comper there'll be 10 piano players who could do it better

  10. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzguy100
    for comping piano wins. for every decent guitar comper there'll be 10 piano players who could do it better
    There's a lot of truth in that, unfortunately.

  11. #10

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    wes does not try to comp like wynton

    wes does guitar comping - and it has some very groovy features

    (but it ain't bill evans comping that's for sure)

  12. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flat5
    Sonny Rollins, for the most part, always uses a guitar and not a piano for his group. He considers the piano too dominant an instrument and and the piano generally steers the song harmonically, rhythmically, etc. and Sonny wants to steer the song..
    All my favourite Rollins records have piano.

  13. #12

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    Ornette didn't use the piano after the first couple/few albums did he? Like many melodic players he structured the music from the top down. And of course he started to use guitar players later on. Off topic slightly but I read that he said that the Rhythm Changes bridge was how he first learned to go outside the home key.

  14. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Irez87
    Quick post, to rally the guitar playing masses:

    Guitar is better than piano because:

    We can tune the instrument on the spot. I think I found it, the reason why we are better.

    Yeah, they can play denser chords, bass lines with more movement, they have a wider range...

    But an out of tune piano ain't worth its salt on the stage, especially if it ain't in tune to itself.

    Can I get an amen?
    Welcome back, Irez!

  15. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzguy100
    for comping piano wins. for every decent guitar comper there'll be 10 piano players who could do it better
    I think part of it is the difference in how they learn. Piano player start with more focus on chords and accompanying singers and other instruments. So they've worked on it a lot more a good accompanist piano player keep busy rehearsing and backing singers. Guitarist especially in the past few decades focus on is getting to solo ASAP accompanying other is usually something they come to later. Piano player can play notes with both hands so work in playing tunes and accompanying themselves. They just come up with a ear for comping for themselves and others.

  16. #15

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    There is no better or worse...it depends on the player.

    But among the amateur (and often the pro!) ranks, I think guitar is better than piano as a harmonic instrument because, basically, comping is OPTIONAL. It should not be like this omnipresent thing constantly playing for the sake of playing. The guitar's limitations lead to less playing, which generally is a good thing.

  17. #16

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    hey erez..see my snark tuner thread!! haha

    good seeing you here bud..miss your posts


    cheers

  18. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzguy100
    for comping piano wins. for every decent guitar comper there'll be 10 piano players who could do it better
    Might be the truth among professional piano players with good taste. And there sure is an abundance of great piano comping compared to guitar comping on records. However there is nothing I dislike more aesthetically than piano players who can't stop playing and there are just so many of them out there especially at jam sessions in my experience. I seriously consider stopping comping all together for the sake of the music when playing with a (busy) piano player. The music gets no breath at all!

  19. #18

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    There's a tension between what an instrument is naturally good at vs. what requires extraordinary effort.

    A horn has extraordinary facility when it comes to single line playing. Steve Lacy called the saxophone an "interval machine." It also lends itself to phrasing and dynamics in a way that an electric guitar doesn't, and can cut through a band mix in a way that an acoustic guitar can't.

    A keyboard player can play chordal, harmonic, and contrapuntal ideas that a guitarist can only dream of.

    But a guitar can play chords much easier than a horn (no need to resort to multiphonics like a sax player).

    A guitar has more options for phrasing, vibrato, glissandi, etc. than a keyboard player.

    And there are other unique things about it. Electric guitars better manage the tension between electric/acoustic than any other instrument. It takes effects more easily/naturally than other instruments.

    Some guitarists would probably be happier if they did play piano or sax. If you're not going to utilize some of the unique characteristics of the instrument, why bother?

  20. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by princeplanet
    All my favourite Rollins records have piano.
    Better than "The Bridge"?

  21. #20
    I am finally on break for a week so I can breath a little more... work is work as always (but the kids are alright)



    There are a lot of horn players who prefer working with horn players:

    1. Paul Desmond

    2. Art Farmer

    3. Sonny Rollins

    4. Mark Turner

    That's just a start...

    They all seem to say the same thing. A guitarist allows them to:

    1. Have more space

    2. Have more freedom

    3. Use melodic space more effectively

    4. Be more adventurous

    There is this myth that bigger is better. With music... nope!

    A. Look at Jim Hall's comping

    1. shell voicings

    2. embedded octave voicings

    3. Drop 2/ Drop 3 traditional voicings

    4. The "Jim Hall" altered chord

    5. A keen ear to rhythm and pulse

    B. Look at Ed Bickert's comping

    1. shell voicings

    2. embedded octave voicings

    3. upper extension triads

    4. augmented triad forms

    5. diminished movements

    6. the best ear for pulse and rhythm outside of Freddie Green

    Let me explain that last point. Listen to Bill Evans play piano. I mean, really listen. Forget the harmonies for a second, listen to the rhythmic placement of his chordal hits. Got it?

    Now right after, listen to Ed Bickert playing behind a horn player. My favorite example is Ed playing behind Frank Rosalino, as the sound quality is better than that Paul Desmond joint (two great albums, actually) and you can actually hear Ed's brilliance.

    Okay, notice any similarities?

    I'll provide some examples (remember that I am a teacher, I have to do this kinda "modeling" for a living... for better or worse...)



    Hear it? Listen real close. This deals with that principal of phraseology that I talked about. That's an idea I got from Bruce Arnold, but it's an idea that's been used almost since the dawn of written down music.

    I love the guitar, I couldn't see myself playing the piano or the sax. I used to be jealous. But hey, at the end of the day, the guitar still is the coolest instrument around. Why else would it be such a "chick magnet"? (my apologies for the sexism, but it's true. It is hard to ignore the allure of the guitar)

    I'd also like to add, that if guitarists practice ear training as much as we do technique, we can be better listeners and more responsive compers than pianists... Just saying. Pianists are great to have in an outfit, but sometimes they don't know how to listen. They just know how to speak. You get my drift? A little ego with your altered chord, you say?
    Last edited by Irez87; 12-24-2015 at 07:47 AM.

  22. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by yaclaus
    Might be the truth among professional piano players with good taste. And there sure is an abundance of great piano comping compared to guitar comping on records. However there is nothing I dislike more aesthetically than piano players who can't stop playing and there are just so many of them out there especially at jam sessions in my experience. I seriously consider stopping comping all together for the sake of the music when playing with a (busy) piano player. The music gets no breath at all!
    YES! YES! and YES!

    Finally, someone understands my plight!

  23. #22
    destinytot Guest
    Great comment, but this looks like a typo - shouldn't it read "...prefer working with guitar players"?
    Quote Originally Posted by Irez87
    ...

    There are a lot of horn players who prefer working with horn players:
    ...
    Seasons greetings, man!

  24. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by coolvinny
    Better than "The Bridge"?
    Yes.

  25. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by princeplanet
    Yes.
    Ooohhh. OK, I agree to disagree. But to demonstrate my non-guitar bias, my favorite albums are where neither piano or drums are comping, i.e. where you have two horns with one "comping" or playing lines behind the other. Oh yeah, that's the juice.

  26. #25

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    The entire Symphony is in the piano. No instrument can touch its range and versatility, IMO.

    Many piano players won't touch a piano that's not in tune, and if the piano requires tuning they'll simply arrive early and tune the piano before the gig - themselves. So much for not having a piano in tune

    "better" is always subjective to your ear