Backing Tracks for live gigs Poll

**drbhrb** · 03-08-2015, 09:29 PM

I wonder how EOE's booking process goes. "I charge $3,000 for the gig and I play with an ipod. No, you cannot hear any samples or clips because my playing is too priceless for your peasant club owner ears."

**ingeneri** · 03-09-2015, 02:20 PM

Originally Posted by Dave70

Poor Sandro... well at least I didn't leave a comment. Oh wait... ooops!

Since Sandro's first posting started a 9 page shit storm, and his second thread has launched a 6 page shit storm regarding the exact same topic. And, in contrast to the first conversation, he's remained utterly silent on this thread while the two Siamese fighting fish kill each other (go watch the Connery Bonds). So, I'm wondering if at least this thread was some revenge trolling. If so, well played sir.

**Sandro** · 03-09-2015, 03:52 PM

Originally Posted by ingeneri

Since Sandro's first posting started a 9 page shit storm, and his second thread has launched a 6 page shit storm regarding the exact same topic. And, in contrast to the first conversation, he's remained utterly silent on this thread while the two Siamese fighting fish kill each other (go watch the Connery Bonds). So, I'm wondering if at least this thread was some revenge trolling. If so, well played sir.

Hi Ingeneri,

No, this wasn't a revenge post at all. I knew that, on the "Other" post everybody express their opinion, included me, and there was nothing to be add, and the questions and answers start to be redundant, and nobody was adding something new to the thread. But I know there are forumates that are silent, and don't give their opinion, so I thought to create another thread with a poll so we could include them as well, in fact I wrote "you don't need to leave a comment".....well....it didn't work.

Sandro

**ingeneri** · 03-09-2015, 04:43 PM

Sandro, I hope the fact that I compared you to a bald nehru jacket wearing Bond villian with a cat conveyed that I was being tounge in cheeck.

destinytot · 03-09-2015, 05:47 PM

Actually, I've just thought of a memorable instance of using a backing track to good effect.

It was in 1981, at the Hot Brass, near Aix-en-Provence. A Sonny Stitt album was being played over the house PA during the band's break. The pianist went back to the piano and started playing along with the record. Then the bassist and drummer joined him. It sounded great, and I already thought it was pretty cool, but then... who should start playing the alto but Sonny Stitt himself. The record was faded out and that's how he started his set, playing with the (excellent) house trio.

**Stevebol** · 03-10-2015, 12:30 AM

In the US tracks are OK. Outside the US- probably not a good idea. Here in the US we like lot's of cheese to go with that whine.

destinytot · 03-10-2015, 07:58 AM

Originally Posted by Stevebol

In the US tracks are OK. Outside the US- probably not a good idea. Here in the US we like lot's of cheese to go with that whine.

Hah! I hadn't considered that such affective variables may be what drives some to capitulate to the Devil -humour intended.

Seriously, I recently met an incredibly gifted multi-instrumentalist who integrates recorded music into live performances. It's not for me, but - in my view - he does it tastefully. (No cheese.)

**OldGuitarPlayer** · 03-10-2015, 08:31 AM

I know a guy who used to play in a 4 piece cover band but now he is in a pop music duo with backing tracks. He creates the tracks himself with keyboard midi and drum machine however the tracks are just basically bass & drums with a little keyboard so he doesn't overdo it however they are lame and sound cheezy. The drum machine sounds the worst. Everyone has told him this too. He doesn't gig that often and has a good day job so he doesn't care and he's having fun...good for him. I happen to be lucky and have a couple of good guys to play with and we don't gig that often in the winter (summer is busier) but we like to get together a couple of times a month to jam and keep our chops together for when we do the odd gig. To me this is way more fun than playing along to backing tracks. I mean we play some Cream songs in our set....could you imagine backing tracks for that????

**ronjazz** · 04-19-2015, 02:58 PM

EOE, Your policy is to be a jerk, and you follow it very closely.

**mangotango** · 04-22-2015, 11:49 AM

Well, I have some stuff to contribute here, though it's back on topic I'm afraid - sorry to distract anyone from the gladiatorial combat goin' on on this thread.

Backing tapes and drum machines/synth - Back in the '80's, when a synth riff and a bad haircut were enough to make you want to take on the world, I did one gig in an alternative rock band with a drum machine in a sax/guitar/bass line-up. Hated it. Too sterile for words. Sax player left, guitarist and I got a real drummer, experiment over.

Except a couple of years later, the same sax'ist and I tried to do something using programmed drum machine/bass synth, which again wasn't working live. So I programmed the drumbox and bass synth and recorded them with keyboard that I'd actually played live, and prepared to go out using tapes of these backings. Didn't work - too unstable and unreliable. We did two gigs, one a private party anyway, and threw in the towel. Please bear in mind 1) this was in the field of rock, not jazz 2) these were original compositions. Why all this synth stuff? Well, where we were living, it was hard to find and hold onto muso's of any calibre. And it was the '80's, the decade that music forgot...or was that just fashion?

Restaurant gigs. - Nowadays I do a duo gig - same as Destinytot, guitar and double bass. Would I improve it by adding backing tapes? Well, we appear to be sufficient for people while they're eating their meals. We've just gone to fortnightly from monthly, so we must be doing something right - or maybe we're cheap! However, previously there was a trio there, with drums - which people found too intrusive whilst having a social occasion, apparently. Adding more instruments to our line-up, even taped ones, might detract from the simple thing that we do. Plus, I'm sure that people see the archtop guitar and double bass and think "Ah, that's jazz!!" Something that backing tracks can't match - the visual aspect, or the "listening with your eyes" factor. This is usually seen as worthy of criticism in the Gear section of this forum, where audiences react better to a big old jazz box than a Tele; however, in this case, it's working for me.

Now, back to the battle if you so wish.

**mr. beaumont** · 04-22-2015, 11:59 AM

Originally Posted by mangotango

This is usually seen as worthy of criticism in the Gear section of this forum, where audiences react better to a big old jazz box than a Tele; however, in this case, it's working for me.

Not to get off topic, but.

Actually, yeah, let's get off this stale ass topic.

It's interesting what you say there...because I agree completely...enough to the point of sharing this story.

I played a restaurant last year, around Christmastime. It's a nice place, but not fancy--you could wear jeans and a polo or dress up if you wanted and still fit in fine...well anyway, the first time I played I was coming from a school function, so I was wearing a suit. I played my Heritage. Comments I got were the typical "I didn't think I liked jazz, but I really enjoyed listening to you" or my favorite "I really love jazz, I like to put it on when I'm reading or doing dishes or whatever..." (anything but pay attention to the music...but I digress)

Two weeks later, I played the same place, and wore nice jeans and a sweater. I played my tele. I played pretty much exactly the same tunes.

I actually had multiple folks say to me things like "I really enjoyed that...what kind of music do you call that?"

Jazz has "a look."

**GingerMojo** · 04-22-2015, 01:50 PM

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

Because its the same thing as Kareoke. Even when the singer, or in this case--player--is good it's still square and cheesy at best.

And yet, your tag line is "nothing is corny, if it swings". Can we not get a Guitareoke program to learn triplets, and minor syncopation?

**GingerMojo** · 04-22-2015, 01:55 PM

Actually, my apologies here. I didn't realize this topic made it into 6 pages. I am quoting some rather old posts. Carry on.

**cosmic gumbo** · 04-23-2015, 03:14 PM

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

Jazz has "a look."

According to Buddy Bolden it has a smell, also. He called it 'Funky Butt".

**mr. beaumont** · 04-23-2015, 03:21 PM

Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo

According to Buddy Bolden it has a smell, also. He called it 'Funky Butt".

Obviously what Zappa was referencing when he made his famous "jazz isn't dead" comment.

**targuit** · 04-24-2015, 09:15 AM

In so many ways I like the bass and jazz duo. The bass gives you a foundation and blends nicely with jazz guitar. Of course it varies with the venue, but I like that combo.

**redwun** · 05-17-2015, 08:02 PM

I have to take issue with mr beumont's remark:
"Because its the same thing as Kareoke. Even when the singer, or in this case--player--is good it's still square and cheesy at best".

As I stated in a similar thread:
"Les Paul is held in high regard by many musicians.Does anyone here want to take him and his multi track live performances out front and center for a public whipping"?

Now,I wouldn't include Les Paul among my favorite guitarists,but I do recognize and appreciate his talent,and his technological contributions.I certainly don't consider him "square and cheezy at best". I would also like to speak to the point many have made that "band in the can",backing tracks,and loopers take food off the table of other musicians.In almost every situation I personally know of,the restaurant/club owner (and I'm talking about small,independently owned places) couldn't afford to pay a duo,trio,quartet,or more-tet.Either that,or the room was too small to accommodate more than a soloist.If the money or space isn't there,what's the BFD? You aren't taking anything away from anyone if it's not there to begin with.Now I know that I'm posting on a guitar forum,but this is just a thought;what are you supposed to do if you find yourself in this situation and you're a flute player,or a horn player and you're not Rahsaan Roland Kirk?

**mr. beaumont** · 05-17-2015, 09:51 PM

Welll...again, being this a jazz page, i'm talking about jazz.

Les Paul's multitracked stuff was pop music.

And it was a hell of a lot more inventive than soloing over a backing track at the local spaghetti house.

**redwun** · 05-17-2015, 11:30 PM

Well....again,I have to disagree with you.This thread is also about using backing tracks on live performances,and Les Paul was just my example.Others referred to Metheny on the older,similar thread.Are you sure Les Paul never played jazz when he multi-tracked? I'm not,so I'm gonna play it safe and refrain from making such blatant statements.Les Paul played How High the Moon,and so do I,but we both approach this "jazz" standard quite differently.Am I going to say that when LP improvises over those changes he isn't playing jazz? Mehhh..I'll leave it to the purists and critics to pick the fly shit outta the pepper on that one."Pop" is such a weird term anyway.So many of the "jazz" standards we all play were once considered to be "pop" tunes.Is Benson no longer considered to be a "jazz" artist? Many people I know feel he went "pop" a long time ago.Regarding purists,someone correct me if I'm wrong,(and I know somebody will) but there's a story I remember reading about Segovia losing the respect he once had for George Van Eps when it came to his attention that Van Eps also played electric guitar."The electric guitar is an abomination"!!
Alotta laughs those purists and critics.

**cosmic gumbo** · 05-19-2015, 11:55 PM

Did Les Paul perform live with recorded parts?? I must have missed hearing about those shows.

**Jonah** · 05-20-2015, 04:04 AM

I am not sure if using a looper can be considered like backing track of this kind?

I did a couple of times like... it was just a try though .. but I liked it

1) play kind of chord-melody solo intro
2) then switch on record on looper and play walking bass chord comping in a way that it is still comping but also does not sound to boring... you have to consider that it is supposed to be comping but audience does not know that and listens to it as to completed music... fit might take a few takes to elaborate some ideas how to do it but not relly difficult (I have 5 min. record possible on looper so it's usually enough)
3) then comping loop playback and I can play solo over it a couple of times
4) then switch it off and go to just solo coda or something...

I think it could work very nice if you use it with taste and caution...

What I do not like is various rythm machines (including metronomes) - with live drummer or bass player you can communicate while playing through music.. they hear your ideas more or less and vice versa.. machine will just follow its track anyway....

Of course looped comping also has this 'pre-determined' pattern.. but still it is played by human with human timing, played by myself for myself, and played just before soloing - so I kind of can feel and catch the idea of 'conversation with myself'

**grahambop** · 05-20-2015, 09:58 AM

Originally Posted by redwun

I would also like to speak to the point many have made that "band in the can",backing tracks,and loopers take food off the table of other musicians.In almost every situation I personally know of,the restaurant/club owner (and I'm talking about small,independently owned places) couldn't afford to pay a duo,trio,quartet,or more-tet.Either that,or the room was too small to accommodate more than a soloist.If the money or space isn't there,what's the BFD? You aren't taking anything away from anyone if it's not there to begin with.Now I know that I'm posting on a guitar forum,but this is just a thought;what are you supposed to do if you find yourself in this situation and you're a flute player,or a horn player and you're not Rahsaan Roland Kirk?

In this situation, I would hope the owner would have the wisdom to hire a nice solo jazz guitarist rather than one of those noisy wind-blowing chaps.

**grahambop** · 05-20-2015, 10:00 AM

Originally Posted by Jonah

I am not sure if using a looper can be considered like backing track of this kind?

I did a couple of times like... it was just a try though .. but I liked it

1) play kind of chord-melody solo intro
2) then switch on record on looper and play walking bass chord comping in a way that it is still comping but also does not sound to boring... you have to consider that it is supposed to be comping but audience does not know that and listens to it as to completed music... fit might take a few takes to elaborate some ideas how to do it but not relly difficult (I have 5 min. record possible on looper so it's usually enough)
3) then comping loop playback and I can play solo over it a couple of times
4) then switch it off and go to just solo coda or something...

I think it could work very nice if you use it with taste and caution...

I've seen John Etheridge doing this and it worked quite well. He only used it on a couple of tunes though, the rest of the gig was totally solo playing.

**Jonah** · 05-20-2015, 01:41 PM

I've seen John Etheridge doing this and it worked quite well. He only used it on a couple of tunes though, the rest of the gig was totally solo playing.

I did it only for friends and family occasionaly at home.. I think if I had to do it for the gig I'd also choose 2- tunes from the set to use the looper...

**ronjazz** · 05-20-2015, 03:19 PM

I'm leaving for a gig in a few minutes on which I will use a looper, and it's a duo gig with steel drum/percussionist, so while I sing or he plays an initial melody, I'll comp chords and bass, then be able to solo over it. It is, if anything, MORE creative than playing with a bassist, unless the bassist is excellent.