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  1. #1

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    Hi guys,

    I am contemplating to do some solo gig with a little help from my computer, but I am concern with the quality of backing tracks I have I use BIAB a lot to practice but I don't think is good enough for live gigs. I mainly play jazz standard along with bossa nova type of tune, can you suggest me a good quality backing tracks for this type of music?

    Thanks for your help
    Sandro
    Last edited by Sandro; 10-28-2014 at 10:30 PM.

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  3. #2

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    No backing tracks are good for live gigs.
    Jeff Matz, Jazz Guitar:
    http://www.youtube.com/user/jeffreymatz

    "Jazz is like life...it goes on longer than you think, and as soon as you're like 'oh, I get it,' it ends."

    --The Ghost of Duke Ellington

  4. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont View Post
    No backing tracks are good for live gigs.
    I was afraid of this answer

  5. #4

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    There's nothing wrong with using backing tracks for live gigs. Try jazzbacks or Bobby's Backing Tracks, both are good quality. Just get out there and play, don't listen to all the other nonsense.

  6. #5

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    BIAB is fine because the audience doesn't know the difference or care. When solo you're what they see and focus on and backing tracks are just filling in some bass and a beat for them.
    No, I'm not going to give you the answer to your question. I don't want to deny you the pleasure you'll receive when you figure it out yourself. -- Bill Evans talking to his brother.

  7. #6

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    For some small terrible cafe gigs that are like busking gigs, or where you're on a street corner playing for tips - sure. Whatever works. Backing tracks. I think it's incredibly lame, but so what? Whatever you can do to get a gig, fine. I have a very good friend, a sax player who I've played with for many years and who played in my band for many years, who says he's done several gigs using Jamey Abersold play-a-longs.

  8. #7

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    Yeah baby, this is where it's at, all the way to the bank! Why would a venue want to pay for a bunch of stooge musicians when there's guys willing to provide this?

    Last edited by cosmic gumbo; 10-29-2014 at 03:40 AM.

  9. #8

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    Guitar players have no excuse. We got a mini orchestra on our lap. You wanna gig by yourself, learn how to use it. You ain't gotta be Joe Pass.

    I saw a guy advertised as a "jazz guitarist" at a local wine bar a few weeks ago. Tracks. Cheesy ones too. Played the melody, didn't even improvise. Did horrid crap midi arrangements of tunes like "Feelin' Good" and "Rhythm is Gonna Get You."

    I was gonna drop off a CD and a business card, but I knew I never had a chance.

    I knew a great piano player once pressured into using tracks...he had a steady, had surgery, was out for a bit, came back and the owner happily gave him his steady back...then said (insert thick accent of your choice here)

    "Some guys while you gone...they have the recordings, you know? It's like whole group for price of one musician! You maybe get the recordings?"
    Jeff Matz, Jazz Guitar:
    http://www.youtube.com/user/jeffreymatz

    "Jazz is like life...it goes on longer than you think, and as soon as you're like 'oh, I get it,' it ends."

    --The Ghost of Duke Ellington

  10. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Richb View Post
    I cant believe some of you guys are sanctioning the use of tracks. Tracks and their use are literally the mortal enemy of the pro musician. We should be standing resolutely against their use whenever and wherever we can. People need to be shamed out of even contemplating this kind of thing.
    It takes work to EARN the stage. Allowing frauds to gain access to a stage they don't deserve because they haven't put in the work has been part of the demise of live music.
    Hi Rich, maybe I wasn't clear in my original post, what I am trying to provide is just background music, something to listen and look at occasionally during the dinner or whatever, I don't pretend to be the main attraction of the night playing backing tracks, for that I need the full band. Now your post come across very strong, and I quote you "People need to be shamed" "frauds" "access to a stage they don't deserve because they haven't put in the work" don't you think you are taking this backing track thing a little be to serious? Did you lost gig opportunity because of people playing with backing tracks? But over all I would be very careful before I say those things to somebody I don't know at all, maybe asking "why" would led more towards a constructive debate.



    Thanks,
    Sandro

  11. #10

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    Sandro,

    Rich doesn't understand how to make a point anybody would want to agree with, even when he's right.

    As far as pleasant background music goes, a guitar by itself can do that just fine. But I gotta live and let live, I suppose. I just think when 2/3 of the music (or more, depending on how in depth the arrangements go) is canned, why not just call it a day and can all of it?
    Jeff Matz, Jazz Guitar:
    http://www.youtube.com/user/jeffreymatz

    "Jazz is like life...it goes on longer than you think, and as soon as you're like 'oh, I get it,' it ends."

    --The Ghost of Duke Ellington

  12. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Richb View Post
    I cant believe some of you guys are sanctioning the use of tracks. Tracks and their use are literally the mortal enemy of the pro musician. We should be standing resolutely against their use whenever and wherever we can. People need to be shamed out of even contemplating this kind of thing.
    It takes work to EARN the stage. Allowing frauds to gain access to a stage they don't deserve because they haven't put in the work has been part of the demise of live music.
    We sanction it because if we choose not to do something someone else will do it. I wouldn't do it but it's not my business if someone else does.
    It's a gig. Just a gig.
    Last edited by Stevebol; 10-29-2014 at 10:41 AM.

  13. #12

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    We're either slaves to technology or we're not. Old-timers get a pass on using backing tracks in my book.

  14. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Richb View Post
    I cant believe some of you guys are sanctioning the use of tracks. Tracks and their use are literally the mortal enemy of the pro musician. We should be standing resolutely against their use whenever and wherever we can. People need to be shamed out of even contemplating this kind of thing.
    It takes work to EARN the stage. Allowing frauds to gain access to a stage they don't deserve because they haven't put in the work has been part of the demise of live music.
    You're forgetting in this economy for many its called paying your bills. A place can't afford a group they hire a solo musician, but audience still want more of a group sound. Do you feel the same about solo musicians with looper pedals a lot of that where I live. It's weird here guys doing solo Blues/Rock with a loopers, but little places can only afford a solo artist. So can be an artist and starve or go out and make some money playing even if it's solo with looper or backup tracks.

    Personally I think using a looper on a gig gets old fast, and would rather hear solo or with a backing track.
    No, I'm not going to give you the answer to your question. I don't want to deny you the pleasure you'll receive when you figure it out yourself. -- Bill Evans talking to his brother.

  15. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by docbop View Post
    You're forgetting in this economy for many its called paying your bills. A place can't afford a group they hire a solo musician, but audience still want more of a group sound. Do you feel the same about solo musicians with looper pedals a lot of that where I live. It's weird here guys doing solo Blues/Rock with a loopers, but little places can only afford a solo artist. So can be an artist and starve or go out and make some money playing even if it's solo with looper or backup tracks.

    Personally I think using a looper on a gig gets old fast, and would rather hear solo or with a backing track.
    This is exactly where I am at, no able to book a full band, money are just too little to share, and I need a little extra to put food on the table, but I am concern with the quality of my product and I want to make sure I can offer the best I can with what I have, starting with the quality of the backing tracks.

    Regarding the chord melody thing I don't know about you guys but I don't know enough chord melody tunes to go on for 3 or 4 hours you need at list 50 tunes but most important is not the right venue for that, this are not gig where I showcase my technical ability, I will play a few chord melody tunes for sure but only to give a break to the listener from the backing tracks, also I will use a Roland GR33 for some different sounds like trumpet, piano, flute and more just to keep thing interesting to the listener.

    Thank you all for your feed back and keep on coming please.

    Sandro

  16. #15

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    Sandro, I do apologize for the abruptness in my first post. I've been in the situation where gigging (well, and private lessons) were my only source of income, and it's tough...and I get sometimes you gotta make choices to put food on the table.

    I just get bummed out sometimes...I worked for a long time to get enough repertoire to do a solo gig just me and guitar. It was hard, and requires constant upkeep. And the fact is, nobody gives a fuck. It's disheartening, so understand thatwhile I totally get where you're coming from, I hold on to some bitterness regarding tracks players too.
    Jeff Matz, Jazz Guitar:
    http://www.youtube.com/user/jeffreymatz

    "Jazz is like life...it goes on longer than you think, and as soon as you're like 'oh, I get it,' it ends."

    --The Ghost of Duke Ellington

  17. #16

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    Just mime to "Kind of Blue" with a plastic trumpet, there's no real need to learn an instrument.
    “I will not let anyone walk through my mind with their dirty feet.”
    ― Mahatma Gandhi

  18. #17

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    Let's face it, live musicians are a disposable breed, it's cheaper to fire up the ol' jukebox, and that's what the musician's union has been trying to warn about since the dawn of recording. Beware, you will be replaced by technology.

  19. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont View Post
    Sandro, I do apologize for the abruptness in my first post. I've been in the situation where gigging (well, and private lessons) were my only source of income, and it's tough...and I get sometimes you gotta make choices to put food on the table.

    I just get bummed out sometimes...I worked for a long time to get enough repertoire to do a solo gig just me and guitar. It was hard, and requires constant upkeep. And the fact is, nobody gives a fuck. It's disheartening, so understand thatwhile I totally get where you're coming from, I hold on to some bitterness regarding tracks players too.
    Beaumont don't worry apologies accepted. What I sow through the years is that, specially jazz guitarist, we tend to complicate things to the point that we freeze and keep on practicing for ever and ever, from single note to chords melody through Triton subs harmonic substitutions melodic minor and on and on we know it never end, that's good to dig into but, I don't need to feel under a microscope every time I play, I want to be able to be free, relax and play some good music using a backing track, and the only thing I worry about is to connect with the listeners.

    Thanks,
    Sandro
    Last edited by Sandro; 10-29-2014 at 06:39 PM.

  20. #19

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    Wow!! I'm actually standing up and applauding Richb for this. Right. Good going. Glad you said. it.

  21. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by richb View Post
    the thing about the tracks debate is it does affect others. It depresses the value of live music by making musicians disposable - in a back-handed way. We should be resisting this at every turn. Can we stem the massive tide? Of course we can't. But as guardians of the art of music we should at least try. We should shame these attempts to come into our world.
    Technology will always allow more and more amateurs entree to areas that were previously closed to them. They've been dying to get into our area since time immemorial. Tech allows more of them in without having to put the work in.
    I don't get why they are so keen to trespass into the realm of actual musicians. Why the absolute craving for the stage. They go to great lengths, and then shame the art of live music/perf with their disgusting tracks/karaoke/etctetc
    it seems like they will do almost anything to "get" the stage. And thus it has ever been. Frauds, fakes, mediocrity found a "solution" to their age old problem of "getting" the stage: Technology.
    We musicians should resist this by shaming them with the excellence of our music and performance and by actually decrying their kind at every turn. Stand up like a man and call this stuff out for what it is. A direct threat to what we musicians try to do.
    what????

    That's okay Rich thank you for your feedback

    Sandro

  22. #21

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    I'm at a party and have had a couple of glasses of wine, so here goes.

    Anyone is welcome to come to one of my gigs and call me an "amateur" to my face.


    Then I'll buy you a round for making the effort.

  23. #22

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    ^^^
    Well, that was pretty random..

  24. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sandro View Post
    what????

    That's okay Rich thank you for your feedback

    Sandro

    He's actually making some very good points. The fact of the matter is that there was a time when restaurant owners actually would pay a trio a small amount of money because people would come to check it out and hang for drinks etc. You may be seeing owners only willing to pay a small amount of money ... you see owners who are only willing to pay one musician or no money etc -- restaurant owners see musicians who are willing to play cheap or free so they adjust their expectations. It's a chicken or egg situation. It's your job to break the cycle. You can play solo so it's no skin off your back to try and bring in a real trio. If he says and that he can only afford one then so what? You're still good. Also ... The owner that suggests you play with backing tracks obviously wants a group. Here's what you do.

    Owner: Hey what if you bring backing tracks

    You: Oh that's tricky logistically with power and all the tracks and I can't tailor the tunes to fit the crowd or take requests or let a song ebb and flow with the audience's interest. Also computers or speakers take up space and will be weird for your restaurant's aesthetic. So that's not something I'd like to do. I apologize. How about I bring in a trio for you?

    Owner: Wouldn't that be more money?

    You: Yes of course I have to pay the other musicians. It will be $--- ..

    Owner: Hmm... I really only have the budget for one.

    You: Well why don't I start by playing solo ... if people dig it then we'll bring in a bass player every other week or once a month and see where it goes?

    ^^^^ that is something NO OTHER INSTRUMENT CAN DO. We are the ONLY instrument that can fit into the tiniest corners of the tiniest restaurant and play the quietest music in the quietest room ALONE. A trumpet player can't give the owner the option to start with a solo musician and gradually expand. YOU CAN ... so do it. Be firm. Have answers for questions. If he wants to know why it's worth the money then don't dilly dally around and give him ums and uhs. Be ready to tell him in no uncertain terms why your friends are worth hiring in the flesh.

    And a heads up... the reason people are reacting strongly to this is that it has to do with a musician's integrity. Every time you put a recording of a piano player behind you in a gig is one time you're telling every piano player you know that they're not worth $25 or worth the trouble of making a restaurant owner understand that they're worth $25. It's an integrity thing and make no mistake - it WILL get around to the other musicians on the scene. It's also a karma thing --- if your trumpet player friend follows your lead then you're out of a job as well.

    Be the guy that takes a (small) stand for getting musicians money for a job well done.

  25. #24

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    ^^^

    Club owner- do you use backing tracks?

    Me- Jeez I just can't figure out how to do that..

    Club owner- Mmm...

    Me- this place would make an awesome strip club
    Last edited by Stevebol; 10-30-2014 at 02:05 AM.

  26. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by inwalkedbud View Post

    ^^^^ that is something NO OTHER INSTRUMENT CAN DO. We are the ONLY instrument that can fit into the tiniest corners of the tiniest restaurant and play the quietest music in the quietest room ALONE.
    Er...the old standby of the restaurant scene....


  27. #26

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    Backing tracks in jazz club it is not good idea but in the restaurant who knows...:-)

  28. #27

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    ^^^^ that is something NO OTHER INSTRUMENT CAN DO. We are the ONLY instrument that can fit into the tiniest corners of the tiniest restaurant and play the quietest music in the quietest room ALONE.....

    Perhaps you have forgotten that perennial haute culture restaurant favorite - the bagpipes!

  29. #28

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    A very real and controversial issue and technology is enfluencing the performing marketplace. Singles and duos now replace bands with more $ per performer and less overhead for owner/operator. A band has to have something special happening to justify the expense. I.e. A strong following. I can do about an hour of chord melody. That is where I am. I am constantly improving in that regard because that is my passion right now. But that is where I am. I do my own backing tracks on a looper. I play the bass lines and comp with either keys or guitar. This makes me much more versatile and marketable. I can make $150 for ninety minutes. The valid argument is that I cheated a bass and piano guy out of work. But you won't find a bass or piano person around here willing or capable of playing that kind of music for fifty bucks. It is what it is and I will not stay home and play for the cat and dog if backing tracks allow me the opportunity of playing my music for others. Eventually I WILL be able to do three hours of solo chord melody. I think I will always have the looper and my own backing tracks available just to fulfill a request I may not have mastered yet. It is called customer service and gets you asked back.

  30. #29

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    Keoki, just curious. Do you find it hard to find restaurant or wine tastings or other gigs where you can play chord / melody style tunes with your looper? I'm wondering how you find these gigs or do you have an agent?

  31. #30

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    Let's put it this way. As a solo performer, when I use my 'backing tracks' that I create with Sibelius, I can provide a bass, percussion, and piano accompaniment, over which I play guitar and can sing the melody "live". Rather than thinking of this as a limitation of improvisation possibilities, I think it expands one's options. Nor is it something one has to do with each and every tune. One can play solo chord melody for certain tunes, like My Funny Valentine, eg. But with others, especially up tempo tunes like There Will Never Be Another You, or a song like Georgian On My Mind, one can expand the soundstage. In effect, I see no advantage or 'more virtuous character' to using a looper over employing tracks that I have created to provide rhythm support. (No criticism of the use of loopers specifically intended - more a matter of 'technical difficulty' in execution.) If anything, it is less complicated and more secure.

    And I think that the performance context matters a lot. In a situation in which you are 'background music' like a restaurant or wine tasting gig, delivering a more complete soundstage is not analogous to lipsynching. It is delivering the product in such a way that the customer or consumer will hire you again. For that matter I think it is far less deceptive or deceitful than using Autotune to sterilize vocals that are off key. That is truly despicable. And no, I would not try to pull it off in a jazz club. Remember what those were?

    Jay

  32. #31

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    "where can I get some good backing tracks?"

    as Targuit says, I make my own. It's easy. If you can actually play jazz at all, you can make your own.Then you get the exact tempos you want, the changes and keys you want, the sounds you want and so on.
    Last edited by markf; 10-30-2014 at 01:23 PM. Reason: edit

  33. #32

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    There's nothing inherently more entertaining about canned drums, bass, and piano. A performer is either entertaining or not.

    Some gigs are not about being entertaining anyway, they're about providing atmosphere.
    Jeff Matz, Jazz Guitar:
    http://www.youtube.com/user/jeffreymatz

    "Jazz is like life...it goes on longer than you think, and as soon as you're like 'oh, I get it,' it ends."

    --The Ghost of Duke Ellington

  34. #33

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    No agent. Word of mouth is the short answer.

  35. #34

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    Using a looper limits you in many ways but I like the way some people use them, especially vocalists. There seems to be a culture to it too. I'd guess many of us who wouldn't use backing tracks on a gig don't like them to begin with. I don't even use them at home.

  36. #35

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    If I want to work with pros with no "issues", it's a minimum of $50 or more per person per night PLUS rehearsal pay IF I'm lucky. That's okay for a special show at a bigger venue, and I've certainly contracted high-end musicians for those situations.

    But for a small club or restaurant gig where I might pull $250, I'm not spending $225 or more on hired guns, or paying less for sub-par "problem children" to put on a sloppy show.

    And many of my gigs start out as jazz standards dinner music and later morph into rockin dance parties if the audience is so inclined. Even in Los Angeles, to find a drummer, bassist, and piano/keys player who all three can and will go convincingly and consistently from Mercer to Motörhead and everything in between with a rock-solid repertoire of hundreds of songs across a dozen genres and will accept the kind of pay the small clubs and restaurants are willing to pay... well the odds are astronomical.

    Finally, I often get hired for situations where the venue owner or party planner wants a full sound and an entertaining front man/musician, but is explicit about NOT wanting a full band and the additional space/hassle/volume that implies.

    Backing tracks it is.
    Last edited by EightString; 10-30-2014 at 02:39 PM.

  37. #36

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    A lot of us have to cut corners more than we'd like to admit. I don't have enough material with just acoustic guitar and voice so I think I should add something else. I'll try looping. I'm not going to say hey, don't use backing tracks just because I don't like them personally.

  38. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont View Post
    There's nothing inherently more entertaining about canned drums, bass, and piano. A performer is either entertaining or not.
    That sounds right to me. Without taking a stand on the backing tracks issue, it does seem likely to me that most listeners--both musically savvy and not--would tend to enjoy a solo guitarist mostly based on what he or she is actually playing and/or singing. I don't know if someone who's lackluster or doesn't have a real sense of swing/drive is going to sound a whole lot better with some midi tracks.

    But I don't think I've ever seen someone live with backing tracks. Maybe I'm wrong!

  39. #38

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    It's already been proven that musicians will stoop to anything to gig. So wear a clown costume and play backing tracks with circus music if it gets you a job, who gives a f#ck except some old school cats who feel ethically superior? If it's legal, make a buck and stay out of jail, it's all good. Don't wonder why your daughters get tattoos and become strippers...

  40. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo View Post
    It's already been proven that musicians will stoop to anything to gig. So wear a clown costume and play backing tracks with circus music if it gets you a job, who gives a f#ck except some old school cats who feel ethically superior? If it's legal, make a buck and stay out of jail, it's all good. Don't wonder why your daughters get tattoos and become strippers...


    youre more than welcome to make jokes but this sort of thing has very real implications for musician pay. You are worth what you make yourself worth. If you're willing to devalue your craft you're by association devaluing the craft as a whole. If a restaurant owner can get you to make some crappy midi sounds to give the impression of a full band for $50 then guess what... A whole band is now worth $50 and you did that. It's not cool and word gets around. In an industry where your entire livelihood is based on networking and your rapport w other musicians this is something you should consider very carefully. So from a business standpoint it actually has very real negative consequences for you and for the industry as a whole. From a misical standpoint I quite frankly don't even know why this is a discussion.

  41. #40

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    And for the record I'm about as musically liberal as it gets and I'm in my early twenties and I don't have a daughter. So ... There goes that.

  42. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by inwalkedbud View Post
    youre more than welcome to make jokes but this sort of thing has very real implications for musician pay. You are worth what you make yourself worth. If you're willing to devalue your craft you're by association devaluing the craft as a whole. If a restaurant owner can get you to make some crappy midi sounds to give the impression of a full band for $50 then guess what... A whole band is now worth $50 and you did that. It's not cool and word gets around. In an industry where your entire livelihood is based on networking and your rapport w other musicians this is something you should consider very carefully. So from a business standpoint it actually has very real negative consequences for you and for the industry as a whole. From a misical standpoint I quite frankly don't even know why this is a discussion.
    This is a big non-issue. Jazz clubs aren't going to hire anyone doing karokee jazz. No jazz clubs? It's the fault of the musicians if jazz is that unpopular and jazz clubs barely exist. I don't think it matters at all what people do on restaurant gigs.
    Jazz musicians generally don't want to compromise and play the kind of jazz that can draw the big spenders. They want to do exactly what they want to do and get paid but only a select few will succeed. It takes all genes of jazz to create a vibrant scene.
    I put the blame on where I think it should be- on the club owners for one, and also on the low expectations of the American audience. They never did respect musicians. Demographics and parenting also dictate much of what goes on in the music business.
    I don't blame the musicians.

  43. #42

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    I was recently in a situation where I was booked at an event to play solo "incidental" music in one hall for the evening.

    In an identical hall next door, full bands were booked for the event to play sets throughout the evening.

    Periodically over the mic I actively encouraged everyone to go and listen to the fine acts playing the stage next door, as that was intended to be the "main show".

    My hall at the event was full of people all evening. The other hall was almost empty for most of the evening.

    At one point, the headlining band from next door was seen watching me and one of its members was overheard to say, "That explains it. This guy is good. Damn good."

    I tell this story to underscore an assertion that I'm not "stealing gigs" from bands or "devaluing my craft" by doing shows my way. On the contrary. I demand a certain level of excellence for myself because I'm the singer. I'm the lead instrumentalist. And if I'm not cutting it, I have no one to look at or blame on stage but me, backing tracks or not.

    In that side-by-side situation, it was me as a front-man and performer "stealing" audience members. Not whether I used backing tracks or not. I would wager that it is me as a front-man and performer getting my gigs too.

  44. #43

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    Well that's just not true. There are clubs and they're hard to get into. Restaurant gigs are bread and butter gigs like teaching so it very much matters what you get paid. You only get club dates of you've got a following of your own from playing at small bars and restaurants and a healthy sideman business getting your name out there.

    furthermore. If there are no club gigs near you then isn't it all the more important to elevate the quality of what you're doing in restaurants? And if you blame the musicians for the lack of clubs in your area (and most areas) then why don't you hold musicians accountable for the low quality low pay expectations that seem to be the norm at restaurants?

    And from a business standpoint why should the quality of your product be subject to the venue? Would you hire McDonald's to cater your wedding even though they say "well of course we pull out all the stops on events" ... That whole McNugget thing is just our restaurant game. No you wouldn't. Because that's just silly. This whole club/ restaurant thing is no different. Choice of material changes. Quality doesn't.


    Again... Dismiss this if you wish but it is an issue that needs to be considered.

  45. #44

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    I blame all three. Blame's not the right word. But I DO primarily blame the musicians. And that's the right word. There are three as I see it: venue manager, audience and musician. All three need and want something. Club wants to make money by selling drinks. Audiences wants to either hear great music or mainly get laid, drink, see friends, have a good time. Musicians want to play music and whatever ancillary activities. As we're only one of the three at any one time we can only control being a musician. We can control giving the other two what they want. Certainly NOT lame idiots talking to themselves on stage, trying to figure out what to play, taking long solos on Satin Doll and Blue Bossa. That stuff helps ruin a scene. And it doesn't help CREATE a scene. We should about creating scenes. If part of that scene is joining forces with a DJ because that's hip now -- if it works it works. But for a jazz club it aint gonna fly UNLESS it's REALLY HIP.
    Last edited by henryrobinett; 10-30-2014 at 06:00 PM.

  46. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by inwalkedbud View Post
    And for the record I'm about as musically liberal as it gets and I'm in my early twenties and I don't have a daughter. So ... There goes that.
    Yes, I assumed you have nobody's welfare to be concerned about except your own. If I need medicine for a sick kid, and push comes to shove, should I do a gig with backing tracks, do honorable work as a janitor, or rob a drugstore?
    Last edited by cosmic gumbo; 10-30-2014 at 06:02 PM.

  47. #46

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    This forum is more and more unenjoyable, with people thinking they need to tell other people what they can and can't do, what "jazz" is and isn't, who's good, who isn't, what being good is, how to get good, is vibrato ok,

    what songs to play, what you're allowed to do if you want to be a "real jazz player" what you can't…

    on and on and on.

    The original poster, this poor guy, asked where to get some backing tracks. He didn't ask whether or not people think backing tracks were acceptable; they clearly are to him. He wants to know where to get good ones.

    Nonetheless he gets lambasted as a "fraud", and might as well just play canned music, and he's stealing other musicians jobs.

    very very helpful folks.

    Almost none of you answered the guy's question.

    The original poster appears to have given up on the idea of getting any help from the people at this forum. I can see why.

    well done.

  48. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by inwalkedbud View Post
    Well that's just not true. There are clubs and they're hard to get into. Restaurant gigs are bread and butter gigs like teaching so it very much matters what you get paid. You only get club dates of you've got a following of your own from playing at small bars and restaurants and a healthy sideman business getting your name out there.

    furthermore. If there are no club gigs near you then isn't it all the more important to elevate the quality of what you're doing in restaurants? And if you blame the musicians for the lack of clubs in your area (and most areas) then why don't you hold musicians accountable for the low quality low pay expectations that seem to be the norm at restaurants?

    And from a business standpoint why should the quality of your product be subject to the venue? Would you hire McDonald's to cater your wedding even though they say "well of course we pull out all the stops on events" ... That whole McNugget thing is just our restaurant game. No you wouldn't. Because that's just silly. This whole club/ restaurant thing is no different. Choice of material changes. Quality doesn't.


    Again... Dismiss this if you wish but it is an issue that needs to be considered.
    You're right. I was contradicting myself. Jazz musicians complain constantly about how unpopular jazz is and the lack of gigs. Do something about it damn it. I'm not looking forward to opening a club but I might. Nothing better to do. I can say it will be a jazz club, it will have different genres and I won't be hiring anyone doing karokee jazz, tribute bands or any of that. No backing tracks. I don't care what other people do but I know what I will do.

  49. #48

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    Naw. I've thought about it. I did exactly I've gig where I used some Ableton Live tracks that augmented my live band. It was too much work. But for the most part it sounded great. I have thought that on occasion it might be interesting to break out a few tracks for a hip hop groove or something really modern. Not all night. Maybe three songs to break it up. I don't know. I'm less prone to feel peer pressure from jazz police assholes.

  50. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by henryrobinett View Post
    Naw. I've thought about it. I did exactly I've gig where I used some Ableton Live tracks that augmented my live band. It was too much work. But for the most part it sounded great. I have thought that on occasion it might be interesting to break out a few tracks for a hip hop groove or something really modern. Not all night. Maybe three songs to break it up. I don't know. I'm less prone to feel peer pressure from jazz police assholes.

    You check out the major Pop and Rock artist have backstage keyboard player and people triggering samples, string parts, and so on. So its being done at all level from a solo person to fully bands. Thinking about it when I was on crew for that Yes tour in mid-70's we carried their studio mixing console on the road and three or four tape decks. In the mixing booth they were queuing up tapes and mixing them in with the band. I forget the name of Yes' producer back then he was on the road as lead mixer, the Roy Clair of Clair Brother audio and a few other from Clair Brothers. The FOH took up a lot space and they worked their asses off mixing every night.
    No, I'm not going to give you the answer to your question. I don't want to deny you the pleasure you'll receive when you figure it out yourself. -- Bill Evans talking to his brother.

  51. #50

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    Regardless of whether you play solo, with a group or with some kind of backing (tracks or loopers)... Can you draw and or keep a crowd? Or are you expecting the owner to do that? I have some great friends that can fill just about any place they go, and others that just get upset that the owner didn't do enough to get the place filled... I think you can do what you want, and grow your audience to the point that you can ask for enough money to pay a few additional people, but it is our responsibility to show the owners that we are worth the extra money. Their margins have gotten tighter and tighter over the years, and most restaurants and bars simply are not pulling the profits they used to even if the place is full. We need to show them that we are worth paying extra. So we need to do a better job at building our base of "followers" whether we play solo or with backing, and work on our craft (which many times is both music and entertainment).
    David - AcousticTones
    http://www.YouTube.com/AcousticTones
    Example of my playing: https://youtu.be/b20eMAp1neE