The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #26

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    Naw. I've thought about it. I did exactly I've gig where I used some Ableton Live tracks that augmented my live band. It was too much work. But for the most part it sounded great. I have thought that on occasion it might be interesting to break out a few tracks for a hip hop groove or something really modern. Not all night. Maybe three songs to break it up. I don't know. I'm less prone to feel peer pressure from jazz police assholes.

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  3. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by henryrobinett
    Naw. I've thought about it. I did exactly I've gig where I used some Ableton Live tracks that augmented my live band. It was too much work. But for the most part it sounded great. I have thought that on occasion it might be interesting to break out a few tracks for a hip hop groove or something really modern. Not all night. Maybe three songs to break it up. I don't know. I'm less prone to feel peer pressure from jazz police assholes.

    You check out the major Pop and Rock artist have backstage keyboard player and people triggering samples, string parts, and so on. So its being done at all level from a solo person to fully bands. Thinking about it when I was on crew for that Yes tour in mid-70's we carried their studio mixing console on the road and three or four tape decks. In the mixing booth they were queuing up tapes and mixing them in with the band. I forget the name of Yes' producer back then he was on the road as lead mixer, the Roy Clair of Clair Brother audio and a few other from Clair Brothers. The FOH took up a lot space and they worked their asses off mixing every night.

  4. #28

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    Regardless of whether you play solo, with a group or with some kind of backing (tracks or loopers)... Can you draw and or keep a crowd? Or are you expecting the owner to do that? I have some great friends that can fill just about any place they go, and others that just get upset that the owner didn't do enough to get the place filled... I think you can do what you want, and grow your audience to the point that you can ask for enough money to pay a few additional people, but it is our responsibility to show the owners that we are worth the extra money. Their margins have gotten tighter and tighter over the years, and most restaurants and bars simply are not pulling the profits they used to even if the place is full. We need to show them that we are worth paying extra. So we need to do a better job at building our base of "followers" whether we play solo or with backing, and work on our craft (which many times is both music and entertainment).

  5. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by henryrobinett
    Naw. I've thought about it. I did exactly I've gig where I used some Ableton Live tracks that augmented my live band. It was too much work. But for the most part it sounded great. I have thought that on occasion it might be interesting to break out a few tracks for a hip hop groove or something really modern. Not all night. Maybe three songs to break it up. I don't know. I'm less prone to feel peer pressure from jazz police assholes.

    Forget software and computers. Beatbox your kick and snare, then layer the hat. You're done. I assume you're talking about a gig with no drummer and you want to add some variety.

  6. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by henryrobinett
    Naw. I've thought about it. I did exactly I've gig where I used some Ableton Live tracks that augmented my live band. It was too much work. But for the most part it sounded great. I have thought that on occasion it might be interesting to break out a few tracks for a hip hop groove or something really modern. Not all night. Maybe three songs to break it up. I don't know. I'm less prone to feel peer pressure from jazz police assholes.
    I'd like to make sure another distinction is being made.

    Using loops, sampling on the fly, computer generated sounds <- totally cool and absolutely NOT the same thing as using backing tracks. Using samples and electronic music, ambient sounds etc ... that implies some level of creativity. Backing tracks are just taking the sounds some other dudes recorded years ago and playing over them even though they have no musical interaction or common ground with you. Not the same things.

    One of the best concerts I've ever seen was Herbie Hancock solo. He sat in a rolling swivel chair surrounded by a grand piano, a couple electric keyboards, two computer monitors hooked up to MIDI keyboards and mixing boards. And of course a keytar. It was awesome. He actually improvised and would take sample on the fly and work them in with prerecorded samples and used all sorts of stuff to create insane soundscapes. Super cool. Computer music is great. Some people need electronic music to get the sounds in their head out. Using a backing track to solo over in a gig just means that you haven't learned a tune.

    I'd also like to say that I am not a jazz asshole. If you don't have enough solo tunes to make it through the gig... then sing some Bob Dylan. Seriously. Totally cool if you can do it in an unobtrusive way then awesome. Play the same tune a second time in the second set and try to stretch out if their aren't tons of people from the first set listening intently. Bring a book of classical pieces to read as filler. Work up arrangements of pop tunes. Sing some pop tunes... Go back through and sing a couple of the tunes you've done as solo guitar tunes... I could go on and on and of course you have to know what kind of place you're playing. I just don't see backing tracks as a reasonable alternative.

  7. #31

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    The only thing that I feel to say is that, music is an art form and is up to the single artist to express him/her self the way they wants, with a band, solo with baking tracks or a bunch of monkeys playing in the back ground, the only thing that really matters is if the artist sounds good is in if he doesn't he is out plain and sample, all the rest is just a bunch of words.

    Sandro

  8. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sandro
    The only thing that I feel to say is that, music is an art form and is up to the single artist to express him/her self the way they wants, with a band, solo with baking tracks or a bunch of monkeys playing in the back ground, the only thing that really matters is if the artist sounds good is in if he doesn't he is out plain and sample, all the rest is just a bunch of words.

    Sandro

    I'm going to risk a direct reply to this.

    First of all I apologize if I offended you personally but I do have strong feelings about this topic in general and most of my strong reactions were related to what others were saying in a conversation that strayed far from your original question.

    That said...

    It is about expression and it's up to the individual artist. But what exactly are you expressing when you decide to use a backing track for Satin Doll instead of taking the time to work up a rudimentary arrangement? I feel where you're coming from so I'll back off of this because it is an individual decision for you to express what you want how you want but that's something I think is worth considering. Do you want to use backing tracks because of an expressive preference or because of a lack of confidence in your ability as a solo guitar player?

  9. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by inwalkedbud
    I'm going to risk a direct reply to this.

    First of all I apologize if I offended you personally but I do have strong feelings about this topic in general and most of my strong reactions were related to what others were saying in a conversation that strayed far from your original question.

    That said...

    It is about expression and it's up to the individual artist. But what exactly are you expressing when you decide to use a backing track for Satin Doll instead of taking the time to work up a rudimentary arrangement? I feel where you're coming from so I'll back off of this because it is an individual decision for you to express what you want how you want but that's something I think is worth considering. Do you want to use backing tracks because of an expressive preference or because of a lack of confidence in your ability as a solo guitar player?
    To be honest with you I get board to listen to solo guitar it doesn't matter if is Joe Pass or Lanny Bureau it's get hold very fast with me don't ask me why, I love them in a band situation but not so much on solo guitar again a few tunes are okay but not an entire album. Solo guitar is not my thing I have develop and wrote a few tunes as solo guitar but that's it and is not a "luck of confidence" but a musical preferences.

    I am amazed that you guys are here replay to my post but don't you should be touring right now some were in the world? Or the backing tracks guys stole all your gigs?

    Sandro
    Last edited by Sandro; 10-30-2014 at 09:14 PM.

  10. #34

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    In life I learn that, one way to separate the professional from the wanna be is, the professional, even when they criticize you, always give you words of wisdom and encouragement, they are not afraid of you, wile the wanna be put you down to lift them self up.

    Sandro

  11. #35

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    One can learn so darn much about the music industry, live entertainment, and the concerns of real musicians on this forum! Other than an occasional jam with friends, I have never performed but I feel as though I have a pretty good idea of what to expect, and some of the pitfalls.

    When I had plenty of time, I had planned to play for free just to get experience. Little did I know that there are serious unintended consequences from what seems like such a simple act - playing live just for the love of it and to share one's music. Yet I could be costing some fellow musician some income for survival.

    I had also planned to play with backing tracks like I have seen others do at senior citizen concerts and other small functions. Little did I know that I could be costing someone some income there too - as well as cheapening the art of Jazz - at least in the eyes of many.

    The metaphor about the spider web and life is true, we are all connected and moves I make here shake the web and can are felt by others, sometimes in a bad way.

    So now my choice is to either to all the way and get to where I can play good music or stay in the bedroom or friends music room.

    Its kind of sad, but of course, life ain't fair.

  12. #36

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    Alsoran - we had a standing gig Tuesday night for something like 9 years at this club. Place was packed everytime we played. We packed them in on Tuesday as much as the clubs Friday and Saturday nights. Five piece band made $75 a man. I did a three month teaching gig in. Vienna so we temporarily passed the gig. But there was a band who negotiated to take our place for $50. That's $50, not a piece. Now they thought it was a good way to climb into a easy ready made night, except they sucked. Club owner couldn't turn away from only paying $50 even if the band was bad. The unintended consequence was that it hurt every single band who tried to book in that club. I refused to ever play there again and the club, a once thriving 7 night a week jazz club died a dismal death. Today people still talk about when that club was great. Now it's a Vietnamese Resturant that has no music.

    There are always consequences.

  13. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by henryrobinett
    Alsoran - we had a standing gig Tuesday night for something like 9 years at this club. Place was packed everytime we played. We packed them in on Tuesday as much as the clubs Friday and Saturday nights. Five piece band made $75 a man. I did a three month teaching gig in. Vienna so we temporarily passed the gig. But there was a band who negotiated to take our place for $50. That's $50, not a piece. Now they thought it was a good way to climb into a easy ready made night, except they sucked. Club owner couldn't turn away from only paying $50 even if the band was bad. The unintended consequence was that it hurt every single band who tried to book in that club. I refused to ever play there again and the club, a once thriving 7 night a week jazz club died a dismal death. Today people still talk about when that club was great. Now it's a Vietnamese Resturant that has no music.

    There are always consequences.
    Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.


    also Yes.

    This is huge huge huge.

    In the midst of all the jokes about backing trackers stealing my solo gigs (nope not yet) I would like to say that THIS is what I was talking about. Not one guitarist stealing a gig from another guitarist but rather one group putting a sloppy product together for pennies to serve as a substitute for a quality product that should cost $150 or more. It hurts the whole market. You've got a gig and the opportunity to make it known that a great band beats a stereo any day so step up and do it.

    Also another reply to Alsoran - there's absolutely nothing wrong with playing with your friends until you have the requisite skill to book a gig. That's the way it always is. You play backyard baseball and then sign up for little league and then play high school ... maybe you go to college and the pros ... maybe you play intermural and semi pro ... maybe it becomes a hobby... maybe you take up golf. You don't start by walking up and trying to hit an 88mph slider. It's part of development ... and once you're getting gigs you'll probably find that informal sessions with your friends are still the most free and fun places to play that you have.
    Last edited by inwalkedbud; 10-30-2014 at 11:22 PM.

  14. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by docbop
    BIAB is fine because the audience doesn't know the difference or care. When solo you're what they see and focus on and backing tracks are just filling in some bass and a beat for them.
    Lol. Of course the audience doesn't care. Club owners care even less. Who buys BIAB for their kids?
    Parents. They want to see a payoff from their investment. A guy just bought a looper from me. He came up from Chicago with his father. Take a wild guess who paid for the looper? He wasn't a kid either. Must have been 19-20 years old.

  15. #39

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    I could have had my gig back. Maybe for the same amount. We certainly wouldn't have played for less. But I was so offended that I didn't try. But hearing the experiences of the other musicians, I walked away. Then again you don't want to get the reputation of one of those musicians who cut the throats of everyone else.

  16. #40

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    To answer the OP, I don't know where to get quality 3rd party backing tracks because I make all of mine myself.

  17. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by dortmundjazzguitar
    dortmundjazzguitar, this video show a "business man" pis-toff with his "employees" because according to the boss they are not delivering what they are pay to deliver. This video is out of contest.

    Sandro

  18. #42

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    I have just one response to those who feel that playing to backing tracks cannot be original, other than being an "original sin". And this is one of the finest guitarists I have ever heard. Happens to be a contributor to the forum, too.

    If you would be bored by this fellow because he doesn't have a real band behind him, then you have tin ears. Of course, Paul is so good, he should have a top class jazz quintet backing him. Just my opinion...



    Jay
    Last edited by targuit; 10-31-2014 at 11:43 AM.

  19. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by targuit
    I have just one response to those who feel that playing to backing tracks cannot be original, other than being an "original sin". And this is one of the finest guitarists I have ever heard. Happens to be a contributor to the forum, too.

    If you would be bored by this fellow because he doesn't have a real band behind him, then you have tin ears. Of course, Tony is so good, he should have a top class jazz quintet backing him. Just my opinion...



    Jay
    Very nice, if you have it it shows not matter how with whom or with what you play.

    Sandro

  20. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by ingeneri
    You asked if there were any better backing tracks than BIAB for doing a solo gig. A number of us, admittedly using strong language, said no because, in our opinion, the very concept is faulty.

    Here's the technical reason I think this doesn't work, even with recordings of top players on an Abersold CD. A Jazz rhythm section needs to be dynamic. The basslines are not just 32 bar loops ad infinitim but an improvised line that, at its best, outlines the chords in a melodic way that can rival any solo. The same thing with drums, where the groove needs to be given variety. And then, on top of all that, they are supposed to be reacting and playing off what you do as the soloist (or even how you're approaching the melody), which is why even the Abersolds won't work. Without all this, you get a sterile and boring business man's bounce.

    As for my remark about earning the stage. I think every stage needs to be earned by anyone on it every single time. Not everybody who is gigging is ready for every situation. You may belong on some stages with some groups and not others. I'm far from the most comfortable solo guitarist and much prefer to work in a duo setting, but if that's what the gig demands then I need to get myself up to the task or be honest and decline the gig until I am. Otherwise, I'm not ready for that specific gig. It doesn't reflect on me as a person or even all that much as a musician. Even good musicians have their strengths, weaknesses, and limitations.
    Regarding the technical reason you are stating the obvious, all of us, I think, prefer to play with a live band for the obvious reasons that you mentioned, this is just common sense, in fact my OP doesn't say "I prefer to play with backing tracks than a real band so were I can get good backing tracks?"

    In reference to your remark is very vague and again state the obvious, the only think that I can add is that, I do feel up to the task of booking a gig using backing tracks there where such a set up make sense.

    Sandro

  21. #45

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    I was teaching at a music school on Vienna with the phenomenal guitarist Shawn Lane. For his first performance at the school he brought a dat tape with a backing band and played his friggjng ass off. I'd actually never heard anything like this. It was instrumental rock n roll Pakinstani music. He did it so much better than McLaughlin and Shakti. He played bending all those micro tones and sounded like a real smooth sitar but with great electric guitar overdrive. Never heard anything before or since like it. In this situation there's no way Shawn could have brought a band to play this stuff or maybe even been able to rehearse the teacher band to play it. We just wanted to hear him anyway. The backing track worked fine.

  22. #46

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    I know Wolf Marshall does a lot of gigging with small jazz band setups, but he also has a few regular solo gigs that he does where he uses backing tracks. And I don't think he needs to feel ashamed to do so. You can just tell by the look on his face that he is loving what he is doing, and although I would prefer to see a full band, I would pumped if I showed up for brunch here, and found someone of his caliber play... regardless of whether he was playing solo arrangement or playing along with a few tracks. God bless him for doing what he does and for a loving it. It may not encourage all, and some may feel that he is selling-out by playing with the backing tracks (at least that's impressions I'm getting from some of the replies here), but I think Wolf has shown that he really does a good job at doing what is needed based on the gig and situation at hand. And that is how I see what I do as well. Some band, some backing, some looper and some solo. It CAN all be good.


  23. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by acoustictones
    I know Wolf Marshall does a lot of gigging with small jazz band setups, but he also has a few regular solo gigs that he does where he uses backing tracks. And I don't think he needs to feel ashamed to do so. You can just tell by the look on his face that he is loving what he is doing, and although I would prefer to see a full band, I would pumped if I showed up for brunch here, and found someone of his caliber play... regardless of whether he was playing solo arrangement or playing along with a few tracks. God bless him for doing what he does and for a loving it. It may not encourage all, and some may feel that he is selling-out by playing with the backing tracks (at least that's impressions I'm getting from some of the replies here), but I think Wolf has shown that he really does a good job at doing what is needed based on the gig and situation at hand. And that is how I see what I do as well. Some band, some backing, some looper and some solo. It CAN all be good.

    Another great example thank you acoustictone.

    Sandro

  24. #48

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    This is a forumate from the gear page site playing along with his backing tracks, another one who should be ashamed of him self.

    Sandro

  25. #49

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    These players all sound lovely. The bands don't. Who wants to hear someone solo over 8 choruses of a backing track w zero group interaction and zero dynamic contrast or shading. Come on man. These videos prove my point for me. Listen to this ... Fast forward to 4:15 and listen to the band... Do you hear what I hear? Energy. Musicians loving playing w each other and being in the moment. This is intense club jazz but seeing two people smiling and lock in and interact and listen to each other is what makes a performance valuable. If I wanted to listen to a person solo over a recording give me one good reason why I wouldn't pay $10/mo and stream spotify?


  26. #50

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    Sandro these are nice



    Also, Wiz makes really nice tracks for the "practical standards group" thread. They are all there for free download, lots of great tunes very nicely put together by him.