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  1. #226

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    To all my fellow musicians out there who cannot play a tune from start to finish...
    Invest in a harmonica!
    Better yet... Seek out an harmonicist an ask 'im 'ow to do it.....

    To all you buskers, bustlers and hustlers out there annoying our urban denizens and giving our once illustrious trade a bad name, please realise this...
    All the scales, modes, arpeggios, chords and tetrachords are used in the making of music;
    but, they are not the music to be making!

    Scales are rote notes - Music is smart. You can't easily define music, but you know what music is when you hear it.

    We need the Music Police:
    a brigade of the rough and the tough to keep these unconscious folk in their sheds and basements until they are musically mature enough to compose and perform music in public.
    Music - not wavering tone groups.

    Expert?
    10,000 hours they say... Not 10,000 dollars!
    Busking with a 10 grand axe is like burning your roof to stay warm on a cold night.

    Improvisation from a master like Johann, Amadeus, Miles or Joe is marvelous to behold.
    But Improvisation is often misused as the consolation for the musically inept.
    A crutch and excuse for bad notes. A Clam Fest...

    The Walking Dead Buskers... The Hounds of the Buskerville. Coming to a city near you...
    (Never move to a burg with a Musical College. They begin to stalk your streets with horns in hand to enlighten you on the finer points of the 14 Tone Mixedupdiddlie Scale played over Ab Diminished Ad Nauseum Mode.) Then they give you the stink-eye with bodkins if you don't go all googley-eyed and hand over a Lincoln.
    Last edited by StringNavigator; 05-30-2021 at 12:18 PM.

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #227
    Quote Originally Posted by StringNavigator
    It is if you 'av to 'ear it!
    No, and neither is the annoying Jesus guy with the megaphone telling us we're all going to spend eternity where the man with the pointed stick and horns does his business.

    Ditto loud racing cars, loud Rap from car speakers, etc.

    All subject to decibel levels, of course - over them, and it IS illegal.

    "lack of talent" describes most of the garbage that makes millions these days.....!!!!

  4. #228
    Quote Originally Posted by Average Joe
    I loathe buskers, most provide little other than noise pollution of public spaces.

    there are very good musicians out there busking, but they are few and far between. Much more common are endless pan pipe renditions of El Condor Pasa or folk-mauled Hallelujahs
    Maybe in your area. Go to NYC and you'll hear totally bad-ass cats!

    I once saw a carton featuring a busking violinist --- a passerby said "hey, you sound great, you should be in the symphony!" The violinist replied: "I AM in the symphony."

    They put Joshua Bell in street clothes and had him busk in the DC metro - not ONE of the passerby (or tippers) recognized him!

    How's YOUR playing, by the way? Virtuoso? If not, perhaps adjust your attitude and busk yourself? 4 hours a day x 7 = 28 hours of paid practice per week. You'll benefit!

  5. #229

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saxophone Tall
    No, and neither is the annoying Jesus guy with the megaphone telling us we're all going to spend eternity where the man with the pointed stick and horns does his business.
    Ditto loud racing cars, loud Rap from car speakers, etc.
    All subject to decibel levels, of course - over them, and it IS illegal.
    "lack of talent" describes most of the garbage that makes millions these days.....!!!!
    You just described Toronto... lazy police...
    Instead of defunding the police, they should wake up the police and make them arrest noise-makers of all stripes. A musician playing recognisable music in a subway station can be a cheery thing. But typically, these buskers sound worse than the steel wheels screeching against the rails.

    I'd love to be a Christian! But I'm satisfied with just trying to make the journey...
    That being said, I would outlaw megaphones for anyone, as a terrorist weapon of mass destruction against everyone within ear-shot.

  6. #230
    Quote Originally Posted by StringNavigator
    You just described Toronto... lazy police...
    Instead of defunding the police, they should wake up the police and make them arrest noise-makers of all stripes. A musician playing recognisable music in a subway station can be a cheery thing. But typically, these buskers sound worse than the steel wheels screeching against the rails.
    I've been viciously attacked by the police! One of them slammed my head down into concrete, damaging my jaw joint! I had an arrest warrant out for weeds - not weed - at a house I'd long ago sold. I didn't even know about it. Such police brutality here in the USA is rampant. I was "low hanging fruit." LAZY cops go after people like me, and not criminals. And they kill innocent Blacks by the dozen. The jackass cop said he was afraid I'd him him with my saxophone! Sure, a $9000 horn I've owned my entire life. They only reason I didn't sue (I'm a lawyer) is that the cat in the street who video taped it stopped short of the attack.

    You play music, right? I highly suggest you try busking. Or would you be merely one of the ones you deride?

  7. #231

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    Quote Originally Posted by StringNavigator
    Children should not be working the streets. I said it wasn't safe.
    You didn't read my posts, did you?
    Now you're a flamer without a cause.
    Obviously, you have some vested interest in the busking game.
    I won't waste any more time with you.
    Again I've posted that I don't busk but you can't take your own advise to read. I'm not sure why you cant follow a back and forth conversation but I've gotta pack up for a gig in the city which of course means I need to get my riot gear on, load my rifle, and prepare for a life threatening voyage across a mad max style hell scape. If I see any buskers on the way I'll be sure to drop them a few bucks.

    If I don't return to this thread you'll know I was taken by violent criminals hell bent on stomping out jazz.

  8. #232
    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick2
    In my opinion, no it's not. Because the artist selling paintings would be referencing a selling price for you to take it home with you, even though you could look at it there on the street for free. A busking musician is playing music with no expectation of payment, hoping that the listening audience will offer a money . . the amount being at their discretion, as a token of appreciation for their performance. I think that's why some (IMO incorrectly) see it as begging.
    Tell that to Mr. Joel. I busk and it's no different than every gig I've played as to the tip jar, and I don't have to put up with some drunken bar owner.

    Unlike a painting, unless one is peddling CDs (SO passe), music is amorphous. Spotify has capitalized on this. So, busking is actually the LAST GIG STANDING.

  9. #233

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saxophone Tall
    You play music, right? I highly suggest you try busking. Or would you be merely one of the ones you deride?
    Busking has all the problems of a 9-5 job, without any of the benefits.

    I worked on two careers in my life, so now I'm retired and pensioned. Learn, Earn, Save, Invest...
    Think ahead. My father told me that a small job was better than a big job if you look ahead at the pension.

    Had I become a professional musician, I'd be some old broken down man with no family renting your mother's basement living on relief. I strongly suggest to any young whipper-snapper to avoid professional music like the plague. Music is the greatest hobby in the world. Keep it that way. You can always fit a guitar into any situation: weekends. holidays, vacation, camping, touring, ...

    I did most progress on guitar, bass and banjo in my spare time while working. More than I can now that I have 24/7. I had to maximise my practice/playing time then. Now, I have too many hours, not complaining, mind you.

    That being said, I did play bass for money. I backed up John Lee Hooker on a BB King Double Bill when I was 16. Of course, it all went downhill from there. There were Legions, Singles Clubs, Eagles Clubs, Toe-Tappers, an outdoor stage concert, church dinners and coffee houses. So I know where Stage Left is. (Its on the Right Side of the stage looking Upstage. Anyway, that's what BB's road manager said.) As I followed my careers from coast to coast, I ended up playing weekends across the country from Vancouver Island to Halifax.

    It may sound pretentious, but I'd warn any young person that a life well lived is a life well planned.
    As for busking, I'm done with taking orders and seeking the attention and appraisal of others. Do I need the abuse of J.Q. Public?

    Once in a Dixieland Band, I was approached by some guy who claimed that I played bass in a manner that was cultural appropriation. I asked him what instrument he played. He said he didn't play music. So I told him that I was definitely not stealing his songs, right...? He just walked away. May have been different had it not been in the church basement. (When I was a kid, CRT was a thing in your TV.)

    I certainly would not be busking, as I don't need the money, attention or abuse... or the twerking. I'm busy enough at home. In my garage with no clock to punch, with my instruments and my toolbox. (and pounding on my keyboard...) That's living... That's Entertainment!

  10. #234

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    Quote Originally Posted by drbhrb
    but I've gotta pack up for a gig in the city which of course means I need to get my riot gear on, load my rifle, and prepare for a life threatening voyage across a mad max style hell scape...If I don't return to this thread you'll know I was taken by violent criminals hell bent on stomping out jazz.
    You can say that again!

    You might take some pointers from Saxophone Tall:
    Quote Originally Posted by Saxophone Tall
    I've been viciously attacked by the police! One of them slammed my head down into concrete, damaging my jaw joint! I had an arrest warrant out for weeds - not weed - at a house I'd long ago sold. I didn't even know about it...The jackass cop said he was afraid I'd him him with my saxophone!


    Happy Busking One And All!

    Last edited by StringNavigator; 05-30-2021 at 03:45 PM.

  11. #235

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saxophone Tall
    How's YOUR playing, by the way? Virtuoso? If not, perhaps adjust your attitude and busk yourself? 4 hours a day x 7 = 28 hours of paid practice per week. You'll benefit!
    That would take 7 years of daily busking, no time off, to become a 10,000 hour expert.
    By then one would be weathered, have skin cancer, lead poisoning, and a mental and physical condition due to trauma and abuse, even metal poisoning from the guitar strings. Calluses on your calluses, perhaps a criminal record. On the plus side, you'd be thin and not ever have to bother with a mortgage, taxes or broker fees....

    Speaking of Joe Pass... There's a thread on Jazz Guitar somewhere where they're all trying to determine what level everyone is at on the geettahr. When can one call themselves a virtuoso...? Last time I looked, they were still fighting. By now, it could be worse.

    Everyone knows what a Newbie is, but nobody knows when you can call yourselves Virtuosi!

  12. #236
    Quote Originally Posted by StringNavigator
    Busking has all the problems of a 9-5 job, without any of the benefits.

    I worked on two careers in my life, so now I'm retired and pensioned. Learn, Earn, Save, Invest...
    Think ahead. My father told me that a small job was better than a big job if you look ahead at the pension.

    Had I become a professional musician, I'd be some old broken down man with no family renting your mother's basement living on relief. I strongly suggest to any young whipper-snapper to avoid professional music like the plague. Music is the greatest hobby in the world. Keep it that way. You can always fit a guitar into any situation: weekends. holidays, vacation, camping, touring, ...

    I did most progress on guitar, bass and banjo in my spare time while working. More than I can now that I have 24/7. I had to maximise my practice/playing time then. Now, I have too many hours, not complaining, mind you.

    That being said, I did play bass for money. I backed up John Lee Hooker on a BB King Double Bill when I was 16. Of course, it all went downhill from there. There were Legions, Singles Clubs, Eagles Clubs, Toe-Tappers, an outdoor stage concert, church dinners and coffee houses. So I know where Stage Left is. (Its on the Right Side of the stage looking Upstage. Anyway, that's what BB's road manager said.) As I followed my careers from coast to coast, I ended up playing weekends across the country from Vancouver Island to Halifax.

    It may sound pretentious, but I'd warn any young person that a life well lived is a life well planned.
    As for busking, I'm done with taking orders and seeking the attention and appraisal of others. Do I need the abuse of J.Q. Public?

    Once in a Dixieland Band, I was approached by some guy who claimed that I played bass in a manner that was cultural appropriation. I asked him what instrument he played. He said he didn't play music. So I told him that I was definitely not stealing his songs, right...? He just walked away. May have been different had it not been in the church basement. (When I was a kid, CRT was a thing in your TV.)

    I certainly would not be busking, as I don't need the money, attention or abuse... or the twerking. I'm busy enough at home. In my garage with no clock to punch, with my instruments and my toolbox. (and pounding on my keyboard...) That's living... That's Entertainment!
    All well and good for you. I have two "parallel" careers: law and music.

    I will never "retire." Duke Ellington was ask about retirement... He said "and do WHAT"?

    Some of us are born to play.

    And the LAST thing I wanted was some 90 hour a week lawfirm gig with no time to play music. I've been on my own, so no corporate pension for me (lawfirms don't do pensions, anyway). I value freedom (time) more than a forced investment. I'm fine financially.

    I write legal briefs (no more penguin suit!), play three instruments (sax, piano, guitar), compose, play a LOT of golf, exercise, do what I want.

    We had a whole Jazz band in law school. Still friends with those cats; all play music and do law.

    With all due respect, I really think you have a misconception about busking. And I presume you are NOT a virtuoso. I play sax and piano at virtuoso (sax) and "really good" (piano) level. Part of that is woodshedding all day and night, and part is busking. I don't need the money (but hey, money is money...).

    If you ARE a good player, don't you think you OWE IT TO THE PUBLIC to be an artist for them?
    Busking is just another gig, and one with some things BETTER about it than a "traditional" gig - and some things WORSE.

    As a Jazz player, if I play a Jazz club, EVERYBODY THERE is already "into" Jazz. Jazz NEEDS to build it's audience, and "preaching to the choir" ain't gonna cut it. Busking helps here!

    So, get off your anti-busking bag and go for it! (you'll thank me later)

  13. #237
    Quote Originally Posted by StringNavigator
    That would take 7 years of daily busking, no time off, to become a 10,000 hour expert.
    By then one would be weathered, have skin cancer, lead poisoning, and a mental and physical condition due to trauma and abuse, even metal poisoning from the guitar strings. Calluses on your calluses, perhaps a criminal record. On the plus side, you'd be thin and not ever have to bother with a mortgage, taxes or broker fees....

    Speaking of Joe Pass... There's a thread on Jazz Guitar somewhere where they're all trying to determine what level everyone is at on the geettahr. When can one call themselves a virtuoso...? Last time I looked, they were still fighting. By now, it could be worse.

    Everyone knows what a Newbie is, but nobody knows when you can call yourselves Virtuosi!
    10,000 hours? Ha ha... A few years ago, I estimated 60,000 - on the SAME tenor sax. Watch "Round Midnight." Becoming great on a musical instrument is a lifetime commitment / passion. Nothing wrong with being a hobbyist, mind you. Check out Dr. Eddie Henderson to see how to do 2 careers.

    Chick Corea heard me busk and asked me for my phone number. RIP. No call.... At least 20 other similar level players have heard me busk and told me they love my playing. Another benefit of busking; try making THOSE contacts otherwise!

    I did about 15 hours a day - for years.....

    Look at Mike Stern - 8 hours a day, every day, plus a 3 hour gig. This is what it takes. Tiny box or spreading joy and making money (and meeting girls and famous musicians). The choice is yours!

    Often $200 to $300 per busk. Record is $2,000.

  14. #238

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saxophone Tall
    I will never "retire." Duke Ellington was ask about retirement... He said "and do WHAT"? Some of us are born to play.
    You and Duke, eh? OK...
    You and The Duke walk into a bar. Bartender says, "We need a
    house band. Get on stage and show us what you got..." OK! OK! I stand corrected.

    A young musician walks into a bar by himself...
    He
    plays the most wonderful original song they ever heard. He gets a hearty round of applause and one lady stands up and says, "That was wonderful! What's the name of that tune?" He replies, "I call that one 'Throw Your Peepers Up on the Bar So I Can Gaze Into Your Eyes."

    He then
    kicks into a song that's even better, and he's being given a standing ovation. Some guy hollers out, "Buddy, that's the best song I've ever heard! What's the name of that song??" He responds, "I wrote that for the bartender and it's called 'Throw Your Buts Up in the Air - I Wanna Stomp Somethin'."

    By
    now, there's near pandemonium, and the star announces, "Folks, I really appreciate the response. Tell you what, I'm gonna go use the facilities and I'll be right back to play some more of my original stuff!"

    So, on his way he
    happens upon the bartender who tells him, "Kid, you're the best musician I've ever seen in person. You're hired if you do me one favor." He says, "Why, thank you. Anything you want."

    The bartender
    explains that this is a family bar, and if he wouldn't mind altering the suggestive titles of some of his songs so as to not offend some clientele.

    The young man says, "N
    o problem. I appreciate this opportunity." He proceeds to the bathroom, and as he walks out, he happens upon the bartender once again, who looks below the musician's belt line and exclaims, "Hey! Do you know you're hanging out and dripping?" The musician looks him straight in the eye and says, "Do I know it? Hell, I wrote it!"

    Quote Originally Posted by Saxophone Tall
    With all due respect, I really think you have a misconception about busking. And I presume you are NOT a virtuoso. I play sax and piano at virtuoso (sax) and "really good" (piano) level. Part of that is woodshedding all day and night, and part is busking.


    That's me. A NOT virtuoso. Good presumption. I'm just another one of the profanum. Glad you could take time out from your busy busking day to punch that one out on your keyboard. You and Duke, eh...?

    Quote Originally Posted by Saxophone Tall
    If you ARE a good player, don't you think you OWE IT TO THE PUBLIC to be an artist for them?

    I wouldn't want to distract anyone from the privilege of being marveled by your Ellington-like sonorities.

    Quote Originally Posted by Saxophone Tall
    So, get off your anti-busking bag and go for it! (you'll thank me later)

    A lawyer should talk like this... If there's anyone more hated than buskers, it's lawyers... LOL!

    Especially those who equate themselves with Duke Ellington. Now there's someone, maybe not as good as you(sic), but one who certainly did not busk. Strangely, it didn't keep him from being a virtuoso, though.

    I'm only thankful that I don't need to be thankful to anyone other than family...

    Your ego is probably only outdone by the amounts on your padded bill.

    And always remember...
    Stroking one's own ego all the time can result in blindness.


  15. #239

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saxophone Tall
    10,000 hours? Ha ha... A few years ago, I estimated 60,000 - on the SAME tenor sax. Watch "Round Midnight." Becoming great on a musical instrument is a lifetime commitment / passion. Nothing wrong with being a hobbyist, mind you. Check out Dr. Eddie Henderson to see how to do 2 careers.

    Chick Corea heard me busk and asked me for my phone number. RIP. No call.... At least 20 other similar level players have heard me busk and told me they love my playing. Another benefit of busking; try making THOSE contacts otherwise!

    I did about 15 hours a day - for years.....

    Look at Mike Stern - 8 hours a day, every day, plus a 3 hour gig. This is what it takes. Tiny box or spreading joy and making money (and meeting girls and famous musicians). The choice is yours!
    Often $200 to $300 per busk. Record is $2,000.
    Too bad about the Chick Corea gig... Makes one wonder why you waste your time busking when you're obviously, according to you, great and somewhat famous. Oh yeah... You're sharing your greatness daily with the commuters and weekenders. Not to mention taking in all that money that you don't need from the other buskers.

    For the money you claim to have, you should be roaming the countryside of Ireland in a Porsche with a cutie in the front and two more spares in the back. Only stopping for gas and a refill at every Public House. I think that would be superlative to standing on the corner of a sweltering city landscape by themselves blowing one's brains out through a $9000 saxophone. But, hey, what do I know? I'm not a Busker!

    Are there any other buskers here as great and famous as this fellow? I seen a busker the other day outside the liquor store. He sleeps down near the highway in a tent with a colony of buskers. Bless him, but he even smelled like a busker... I've never heard another busker say that they make this kind of money and fame. Except for those pounding a keyboard on the internet...

    And meeting all those girls... but never meeting the right one... Too much busking perhaps.
    Are they twerking all over your feet like the other guy?
    And what's the point? You can meet all kinds of women without busking... Why is meeting women such a miracle for you?
    With all your money, Clarence, you could be married with a self-written pre-nup, starting a family and having a life.

    Chick Corea, eh...?
    I met Frank Sinatra once at a Dairy Queen in Vancouver when I was 19.
    But he never invited me on a tour. Good thing too, as I'm such a self-admitted amateur.
    However, who's going to believe me, now? He's long passed on... Bless him.
    Last edited by StringNavigator; 05-30-2021 at 05:19 PM.

  16. #240
    What I have in common with the great Duke Ellington is that, like Duke, I won't "retire." I'm not really sure what else you've read into my comment, but I like your joke!

    I did play 2nd alto in Marcus Belgrave's big band to Kenny Garrett's first, and he did play with Duke - and Miles.

    Q: Why don't sharks eat lawyers?

    A: Professional courtesy!

    No reports of Duke busking, but Sir Paul does...

  17. #241

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    Sax Tall, is this you playing? I found some clips by Jeff Newton/Saxophone Tall on Soundcloud - here’s Green Dolphin Street, sounds good to me!


  18. #242

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    Nice clip. Liked the bass also.

  19. #243

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  20. #244

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saxophone Tall
    What I have in common with the great Duke Ellington is that, like Duke, I won't "retire."
    Don't worry too much about self-directed retirement... You won't have much say in it.
    The amount of time spent on the horn diminishes. It becomes an effort to blow.
    Like young women, who only flower for a brief spell, age creeps in and closes the window.
    The young think they are invincible... until their time comes... and it will... sooner than you think.

    'Ave a good laugh while you still can. The whole thing is like 5 minutes!
    You notice it as you shave. Little things appear to change slightly.
    Soon, like an avalanche, you no longer recognise the face in the mirror.

    Age is the Great Equaliser. If one makes it that far... Death will not be mocked. You will retire.
    And no one gets out alive! Not even buskers... (especially buskers...)

    Quote Originally Posted by Saxophone Tall
    I did play 2nd alto in Marcus Belgrave's big band to Kenny Garrett's first, and he did play with Duke - and Miles.
    At least you're a busker who keeps blowing his own horn...
    And a $9000 one, at that!
    At least you easily impressed gcb...

    Quote Originally Posted by Saxophone Tall
    Q: Why don't sharks eat lawyers? A: Professional courtesy!
    Q: Why don't sharks eat lawyers?
    A: You should be asking why the lawyers aren't eating the sharks... They eat everyone else...

    Q: Why don't sharks eat lawyers?
    A: Because they ain't their clients...

    Quote Originally Posted by Saxophone Tall
    No reports of Duke busking
    Don't hold your breath...
    Maybe gbh can research that for you. He's got nothing much else to do.

    I once read that horn players develop subtle brain damage over time. All that blowing, you know. All that pressure in their head. It certainly inflates their egos...
    Why, it's almost like a cry for help.

    Anyway, argue away... None of you buskers will change me mind.
    But stop busking your kids! That's just so wrong on so many levels.

    BTW:
    Now, I may not be a busker, and I don't blow me own horn... not much, anyway.
    But rather than busk, why don't you play for the old folks stuck in long term care facilities?
    They appreciate it very much, I can tell you.
    Especially if you are as good as all buskers claim to be.
    Of course there's no money in it. And busking is all about the money, eh...?
    But after the pandemic, why not give it a try?
    ...
    Last edited by StringNavigator; 05-31-2021 at 11:18 AM.

  21. #245

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    I get annoyed by those buskers who sing (usually badly) through a mic. and a portable PA system, there’s no escape from the deafening racket. In fact a rule of thumb seems to be: the louder they are, the less their ability.

  22. #246

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    "Don't worry too much about self-directed retirement... You won't have much say in it.
    The amount of time spent on the horn diminishes. It becomes an effort to blow.
    Like young women, who only flower for a brief spell, age creeps in and closes the window.
    The young think they are invincible... until their time comes... and it will... sooner than you think.

    'Ave a good laugh while you still can. The whole thing is like 5 minutes!
    You notice it as you shave. Little things appear to change slightly.
    Soon, like an avalanche, you no longer recognise the face in the mirror.

    Age is the Great Equaliser. If one makes it that far... Death will not be mocked. You will retire.
    And no one gets out alive! Not even buskers... (especially buskers...)" StringNavigator


    Well said, SN,
    And, for many on this Forum, their time HAS PASSED. So, we can enjoy the process of creation and its spiritual and intellectual rewards but there will be no careers made on JGF that will ensconce your name in the annals of Jazz History by bedroom videos or busking at Starbucks. However, it is very possible to get a decent paying gig once or twice a week if you are willing to invest considerable time and energy into the search as I have done for the last 25 years prior to Covid and play YOUR music on your terms.
    Play live . . . Marinero

  23. #247

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saxophone Tall
    Maybe in your area. Go to NYC and you'll hear totally bad-ass cats!

    I once saw a carton featuring a busking violinist --- a passerby said "hey, you sound great, you should be in the symphony!" The violinist replied: "I AM in the symphony."

    They put Joshua Bell in street clothes and had him busk in the DC metro - not ONE of the passerby (or tippers) recognized him!

    How's YOUR playing, by the way? Virtuoso? If not, perhaps adjust your attitude and busk yourself? 4 hours a day x 7 = 28 hours of paid practice per week. You'll benefit!
    buskers can be remarkable musicians, no doubt. And when you come across those, it’s something to behold.

    I still hold that the caterwauling, ceaseless, and all too often amplified variety is far more common in the average European city.