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Well no. I play in cities all over the place. If I want to play a specific tune, I will bring a chart for the bass player or the piano player, just in case. That's if I want to play a specific tune. If not, it's all good. Chances are folks know the tunes. BUT sometimes I have specific changes I want, so we can all agree.
And no, I'm not playing to show off. I'm playing to play and hopefully hang or sometimes to make myself known. That's the basic purpose when I go to a jam session. I might be in a new city. Where's the best place to meet musicians? Jam sessions. Gigs come from making yourself known. They don't generally come from showing off.
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06-08-2014 12:23 AM
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Sorry ... I didn't mean to imply that you go to sessions to show off. You said that you don't go to sessions to show off by knowing every tune in the book - that you're past the point where you need to do that... I was only saying that that's not the point anyway. The point is to go and meet people and learn what's going on out on the scene. There are a lot of sessions where music isn't cool. I'm sure there are some where it's fine. I'm just saying that you shouldn't go to a session and expect that having music is okay no matter what changes you want to play or how good you sound playing that tune.
also...
My question stands: If you're a young guy who's new on the scene... what do you learn from going to a session and bringing music out so that you can play a tune you've chosen ahead of time whether the other guys want to or not?
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You play with folks and you're exposed to folks. What I have done is to show I'm responsible and can lead and be led. I mean I don't know. I don't go to jam sessions to learn. I haven't gone to jam sessions to learn in over 20 years. It doesn't mean I don't learn. I learn all the time. But that's not the reason I go.
Last edited by henryrobinett; 06-08-2014 at 01:00 AM. Reason: typo
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Cool. You haven't gone to jam sessions to learn in over 20 years. I have not been playing the guitar for 20 years. I still go to jam sessions to learn. I can assume our OP probably is too. If I bring music to a session then all I'm saying is "hey guys... I learned this tune ... but just this one... I'd rather not play a different one if that's okay" ... If I go to a session free of the training wheels then I say "hey guys... I'm new ... what's the word? I can play but I also want to know what you guys are up to... oh shit... I don't know that tune or those subs ... no worries let's give it a go"
You go to a session to "play with folks" not to make folks play with you whether they'd like to or not. Again... there may be a session where guys are cool with sheet music and play originals and weird changes and stuff but that's not the norm. If you don't see music then assume it's a different scene and come to the session free of the shackles!
I'm not saying you can't go to a session and blow guys away but really it just doesn't happen all that much. Guys gravitate toward guys who they like and stuff. If you go to a session to play your music and don't seem flexible and willing to play what everyone else is calling ... then why would they hire you to play on their gig or their session or their record?
Ask yourself an honest question: Why am I going to this session? Once you have the answer then think about what's going to get you there.
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I told you twice why I go to sessions.
Why the hostility?
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Ain't no hostility my friend! I was just drawing a distinction between why you go to sessions and why another might. The rhetorical question at the end was directed toward the OP not toward you. Of course your reasons are perfectly valid. I was just saying that less experienced gents like myself and probably the OP go to sessions for different reasons then perhaps more experienced gents like yourself and laid out my logic for why bringing music can be contrary to our purposes for going even though it might not seem to be at first.
I can see in hindsight that my first line could be read as being a touch sassy but I assure you it was merely intended to state two facts (you've been going to sessions for twenty years and I have been playing for less than that long). My apologies.
And the fact remains that scoping out the session first is a must because there are sessions at which sheet music is taboo.
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Ok, cool. Got it. Well I don't go to jam sessions as a rule. I dislike them. For me they've always been a necessary evil. When I move or go to a new city, the best way of gaining exposure, if I don't have gigs, is to go to jam sessions. I dislike having to hang out and wait to be invited up, sometimes waiting a set or two. I dislike being asked, learingly, whether I can play, and then having to prove myself. That happened when I moved to Munich or SF for the first time.
I've never scoped out a session, but it's not a bad idea. If someone calls a tune I don't know I either try to disabuse, say I don't know it and call an alternative or ask the key and play it by ear. Or of course I pull out my handy iPhone iRealBook.
Of course I ALWAYS love to play, if the players are good. If they're not so good id rather not play. And that's the other problem with jam sessions. You don't really know who you're going to be teamed up with.
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Originally Posted by henryrobinett
Yea ... it's sometimes tricky to meet guys at sessions. Have to introduce yourself without seeming like you're just there to hand out your business card. You want to sound good but (like many people have mentioned) don't want to over play. You don't want to be passed over but you don't want to jump up and down in your chair with your hand raised. Very tricky at times. But ... if you are somewhere new and/or know no one on the scene then it's sort of the only way. I know a lot of guys that don't like jam sessions ... generally I do like them but I like them a lot more now that I meet people by going to my friends' gigs and having guys call in subs on gigs of mine. It's nicer when the pressures off a bit.
Maybe now that some of these details have been ironed out I can ask a not-so-rhetorical question of the OP...
Why do you want to go to a session? Just for fun? Are you looking to get in on the scene in your city? Were you invited by a friend that goes or did you just hear about it? Do you have a choice of sessions to go to or just the one? Tell us (if you can or want to) maybe a little something about the circumstance and you can get some more specific advice?
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So I went to my first one last night. I did one tune, I didn't stink but I wasn't so great. The atmosphere wasn't so friendly and seemed more to be a series of dudes being called up to play in kinda prearranged groups. The standard was good for sure.
I spoke to the MC afterwards (bassist) who was not the friendliest cat in the world. He told me that on a first session one tune is enough but to keep coming back every week and learning.
It kinda felt like after I played he wanted me to move over and let the pros play. The whole thing seemed a little elitist.
What annoyed was that at home while practising I was playing really great, but I just couldn't seem to pull it together and play enough interesting stuff on stage. Feel a little disheartened. I hope they don't think I sucked and won't allow me back on stage next week.
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Don't feel disheartened you did well, I am dealing with the same issues as you and it is a hard thing to do.
I found that Kenny Werner offers some good advise
play what you find easy and don't reach for what's not under your fingers yet, it will come out when the time is right.
I have been to a few Jam Sessions and found a low key one that are really supportive, perhaps you could ask around and see if there is something like that in your area.
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@Loobs - you lived to tell about it! Congratulatio.
As noobs we can be a little sensitive to aloofness at established jams (guys in cliques, sounds like by your description). I would take that with a grain of salt. You're just the new guy. Par for the course. You can change that by continuing to go. If they don't warm up to you or if it gets worse then it miight not be the jam for you and that's cool.
Did you spot any guys at your level? Make any friends?
How did you chooose your music? Whay did you play? How were the other guys you played with? what was the configuration?
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Please continue to go and 'pay your dues'. I think this might be an important step toward the development of the entertainment aspects of your musical pursuits. The comfort level of playing with others will increase with experience. I suspect, or at least hope, their demeanor will change as they get to know you.
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I've been thinking about this lately. It is 2014, not 1914, not 1954. In this day and age where we have Band-in-a-Box and other tools for creating our own accompaniment, what is the point of "jam sessions" besides the social aspect? Really, it seems from this post and others I have spoken to, the biggest burden seems to be the social aspect of jam sessions. Who wants to deal with dickish virtuosos, snobbery, cred-checking and pointless scene politics? I don't. I just want to play and write music and eventually make something of this. I tried to sit in on one of the meager jam sessions here and most won't give you the time of day if you can't play over 200 bpm or if you didn't go to a certain university, or haven't been playing before you had hair on your nuts. Especially worse treatment if you show up with an instrument with "Gibson" on the headstock. People say, "show up and don't be a prick and you'll be fine" But they don't tell you that you will be a mark for a bunch of bitter debt-ridden musos and guys head-hunting for gigs. I'd rather chill in my home with two or three buddies who can't play for squat or crack open the laptop and jam out on Band-in-a-Box for a couple hours. Telling beginners to play with other musician is starting to sound like outdated advice, like saying you can find a deal at a pawnshop or that you have to play a guitar first before you buy it. And most these jazz guys will complain all day about how the "scene" is slowly drying up and will be the same ones who will flat out refuse to play with someone of less skill trying to learn. Fucc 'em.
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Jazz is communal music.
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You have a point. I'm gonna keep going. Hopefully it (and I) will continue to improve. Originally Posted by Broyale
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Broyale, you have some good points and very well might be right. I am a bit of a dinosaur but I enjoy making music with people. I have ALL the 'Garage Bands', etc. and I use them. But for me they can't replace playing with other musicians, often of varying talent and skill levels, whether it is jazz, country, etc., etc. To slightly alter a post by a valued contributor above: "Music is communal".
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To state the obvious, some of the benefits of playing at jam sessions is that the tune may be called in a different key, tempo or style than those to which you've grown accustomed. So you'll be stretching your comfort zone in a way that BIAB will never force you to do.
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Broyale - I see your response as indicative of what I think is wrong with the entire music scene. And whether it's "wrong" or not is merely a matter of perspective.
Jazz IS a communal music. MUSIC is communal. But we have become an introverted, cubicle society. I call them cubicle musicians. Drum programs, DAWs, BIAB, forums all go further to justify musicians and people who stay home. People don't go out as much to hear music. There's youtube and live streaming. People don't go out to BUY music. There's no reason to spend money. Or if you're ethical there's iTunes or amazon.
Music gets better by forcing yourself to be UNCOMFORTABLE by rubbing against other musicians. LEARN how to play by forcing yourself to play with other musicians, prickly ones, nice ones, perfectionist ones, forgiving ones, teaching ones.
John, Paul, George and Ringo never would have amounted to a thing today if they just had BIAB or a DAW. They had to have that friction and competition to push against themselves. On their own they were never a fraction of what they were together, even during all that arguing.
Being in original bands I'm fortunate that I had to suffer through the friction of guys saying they didn't like this or suggest a different better bridge or chorus or rhythm, tempo, trying it calypso or raggae. Things I never would have thought of, but made it better. Guys who'd ask me to play my guitar different stylistically, or with a different sound, bluesy or rock or whatever.
As I said for me jam sessions were about becoming known in a new pond. It only took one or maybe two to find people. After the first I'd go back and wouldn't have to wait. But that's me. For others there's a whole dynamic that has to be faced and overcome, much more than merely playing guitar. There's the psyche of knowing there's an audience or other musicians listening to you. There's dealing emotionally with the other people, most of whom you don't know, who you think might have ideas about your playing. The dynamic of volume or overplaying/underplaying. The skill of playing songs you might not know or in unfamiliar keys. If you do BIAB you are crippling your learning curve.
But dealing with all of these things, as unpleasant as they may be, FORCE you to be a better musician, quickly. Or not. But you will see what the problems are, if your smart.
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At its core, I agree. BUT it seems alot of the more experienced practitioners don't seem to think so, from my experience. For example, when the bandleader asked what tune I wanted to play and if I wanted to solo, I said "lets do Autumn Leaves, I'll take one chorus". I wish I could express to you the look on his face as he announced the tune to the smallish crowd. Was I supposed to call out something more complicated? I barely made it through the tune, it seemed like everyone was trying their hardest to throw me curveballs while I was comping, at least my solo came out okay I guess. Afterwards, I went over to speak to the bandleader to ask him about how I did and he just blew me off. The drummer finally spoke to me after later on that night as we were leaving and he said something to the effect of, "Its not just you, they're just not comfortable with new faces". He also mentioned that I was stepping on the bandleader's toes with my comping and that threw the rest of the band off. I appreciated that feedback, but I told him the whole atmosphere was not very welcoming to beginners. I have performed before (did chorus and piano recitals in school, worked as a dj for 4 years) so stage fright isn't an issue. It just seemed like for something that is supposed to benefit beginners, there didn't seem to be many beginners of my level there. Mostly college students and guys looking to show off for gigs. If music is supposed to be a communal experience, it seems like most of the people there didn't get the message. I also feel if you're gonna advertise something like an open jam, you should be more specific about the type of players you want signing up. Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
Last edited by Broyale; 09-07-2014 at 11:11 AM.
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Jazz takes a lot of practice and there is much to work on always. However, they could have been nicer to you, broyale, but that's their problem, not yours. Going to jams is very important. Now you have an incentive to work on your comping! And Autumn Leaves is a fine tune!
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I love playing Autumn Leaves and I'm always just little bummed if I miss out on it.
Those guys were just rude. The problem with being the band hosting a jam is most guys resent that they are hosting a jam session. They want to play. They forget their job. Then there are real players who don't have a gig and want to stretch out on two or three tunes. So new guys or beginners kind of step in the middle of all this. You should just persevere. Get your face out there. The next time they'll know you. Be light. They'll respect you returning. They'll get the idea. Don't be intimidated. Have fun. Don't argue. Just go, call a tune or two. Make improvement. Have fun.Last edited by henryrobinett; 09-07-2014 at 01:49 PM. Reason: typo
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Henry's got it.
Sounds like some rude washups to me...the kind who think Autumn Leaves is boring because they're stuck on one way to play it.
Learn "Beatrice" and go back and call it. Beatrice is my go to. Seems everybody likes it...its hip, but not too hard, and its really fun to stretch out on.
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There doesn't seem to be something inherently bad in jam sessions in general. I am fortunate enough to have access to a cool jam session that takes place in some parisian restaurant monthly. People there are friendly and open and there is no animosity between the musicians here. One thing worth mentioning though, is that most people there are hobbyists. This might have a lot to do with the relaxed atmosphere of that particular jam session.
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I completely agree with this post. Sounds like almost exactly the same experience as mine. I'll keep at it. Originally Posted by Broyale
The other thing is that I feel like no matter how much I practise at home, getting on the bandstand is a totally different thing. I just seemed to forget all the good vocabulary I knew I had. I guess I was nervous.
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Yeah it's a different experience, but it gets me into a "do it or die" mindset that seems to have more positive than negative effects on my playing. Originally Posted by Loobs
Last edited by Nabil B; 09-07-2014 at 02:23 PM.
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