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I am fortunate enough to play in a big band and that keeps me sane other than that I live in the land of 3 chords and a capo. I can find no guitar players that want to even try to progress beyond that.
Originally Posted by rwmol
There was a small monthly Real Book jam about 25 miles away but it degenerated when a couple of sax players would show up and blow their brains out to see how fast, loud, and how many notes they could play. (not all sax players are like that) Their timing was off and blamed the rhythm section. Being a big band player I take pride in my timing. I stopped going, it fizzled out a short time later.
I tried to start a Real Book jam in my community but there was no interest.
I'm in upstate New York..
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12-02-2019 08:02 PM
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I live in Harris County, TX, with a population larger than 26 states. I have been unable to find anyone to play with. I don't play rock, and won't try to learn it, so that does limit the possibilities. I found a "blues" jam that is actually sort of blues oriented rock, with a volume I'm unwilling to tolerate, but that's it so far, after a few years of looking. Back in the early 90s I did find a group an hour or so away, and enjoyed that, but work kept me away, and the group was mostly in their 70s or older, and AFAIK no longer exists. There just seems to be no interest in jazz, swing, or anything other than rock and rap/hiphop, and I won't do that. I might be interested in something online, but I've never tried it, and don't know where to start. So I play with myself.
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That's pretty bleak. Is there a local paper you can put a classified ad in to offer advanced jazz lessons that more technical rockers might be interested in? That might be a source of players you could show how satisfying and rewarding playing jazz is. The online stuff seems to depend on heavy-duty connections and powerful machines, and it's really a pale substitute for being in a room with even just a bass- or pianoplayer. I always ask the salesmen in musicshops to give any jazz players that come in my e-mail address. That's brought several players so far - although they ultimately declined for unrelated, silly reasons. Anyway, good luck. It's frustrating to always be by yourself. Originally Posted by sgosnell
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Yes, Houston has a newspaper. One. There are some alt newspapers I think, but not readily available. I haven't really thought about putting a personal ad in the paper, though, because newspapers are becoming obsolete. I don't say that's good, just that it is. I've been checking Craig's List for some time, with no result. I'm not in a position to start giving advanced jazz lessons, I could use lessons myself, but the only teachers I've found don't do jazz. Maybe there are some, but they are well hidden.
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I'm in Houston... Jazz folks have found and contacted me through Musicians Wanted - Search Local Musician Classifieds : BandMix.com Originally Posted by sgosnell
Join, or write your phone number into the description of musical influences/preferences.
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Never heard of that site, but I'll give it a look. Thanks.
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I live in a rural area near a small midwest town. There is absolutely no jazz scene here. I trained as a jazz player when I lived in Arizona, but luckily I enjoy other kinds of music too. My current band plays 50' , 60's, and 70's music and I love it. My previous band played Bluegrass and Americana music, and I loved that too. I also play at church twice a month, but of course all play dates are on hold with the current virus situation. My circle of music friends will sometimes ask me to play a jazz tune, but it's more of a novelty than a genuine interest. I play guitar, bass, and mandolin, so I do have options, just none in jazz.
Thump on,
One_Dude
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A very old topic...
Just find a gig or several, they will come to you walking, running, swimming, flying and crawling.
You will be the best of them until one of them finds another and decides you're not longer the right person to play with... No worries, they'll be back.
First the gig then the musicians.
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I can't even find anybody who reads music.........
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Just shred by yourself.
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But this as well reduces the chances to get laid ... Originally Posted by Bobby Timmons
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No it doesn't. You can play solo in public. Chicks dig piano.
PS: That concert is funkay.
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Multiple posts in this thread, as well as happens in other similar threads, advise playing with others better than yourself.
That is highly beneficial.
What is not mentioned so often is that you may find yourself playing with others not as good as yourself. Can you play the role of whom you seek for yourself, for them? Can you consider not moving on so quickly to seek those better than yourself but adopt that role yourself with respect to the people right in front of you to help them develop, sharing your experience, helping jazz stay relevant?
That is also highly beneficial.
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Well, sometimes it's better to be able to play tunes alone, playing the bass and chords at the same time, some solos alone.
It works like a filter or a magnet.
It's hard to find musicians if you're only talking and never playing.
When they see you playing, they know what it's about, they know you know what you play, the others won't be a kind of play along since you can play alone.
They know you won't play blues scales all along the tunes listening to the others sometimes to check if you are lost or not.
That often happens.
Some who already play will want to play with you.
Then you will have opportunities.
Remember that those who are looking for other musicians are not the best ones, play and you will notice there are some nice musicians all around you, they play more than they talk, they had bad experience with others for the reason I described above (noodling licks and getting lost), that's the reason why they don't talk too much (avoiding those who want to play but talk better than they play) if you are simple and know what you play (no matter if you're not impressive), they will come to you and will introduce you to the ones who never talk but can play.
It's a kind of web, they don't have to talk.
It can be long, short, they can forget you from time to time but they will call you when they need you.
They'll never be your best friends but they will trust you.
When you have to talk you won't talk about what you can play, they know you can but about money, gigs, what you want to eat or drink, a bit about gears but not so much.
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You gotta sort out garbage players if you are serious, and it takes serious time and commitment. If you think a great band is gonna fall outta the sky based on a few craigslist ads or facebook posts you're dreaming. Most musicians are dreamers not doers. I'm a dreamer too but I'm also a doer.
It's a ton of ground pounding, years. It took a large part of my life to finally put together what I think is a GREAT band. How long it will last is probably based on the Lord's mercy but believe me I am thankful. But I also missed about a million hot meals and spent thousands of hours away from home. How bad you want that? The industry gives you a heart check most nights.
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I think the issue can sometimes be boiled down to getting a bassist who wants to play the same sort of music.
You can do a lot with just guitar and bass. If there are any compatible people on other instruments, or vocals, they may find you, somehow. If not, there's a lot you can do as a duo.
But, first, a bassist.
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Unlike a rock band, even "bad" musicians can make very great music if they are connected to eachother to create a deep alchemy.
With jazz, it's different, rehearsals are very rare, everyone has to be functional, everyone is a diva.
If there is a kind of friendship, be prepared to be pulled down when you're not there.
Don't blame them, you will do the same.
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It's difficult to find a bassist that swings, plays in tune and knows the chords. I'd do it myself but I want to play guitar! Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
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A bassist is quite difficult to find, I would suggest another guitarist for a duet, and it's fun, you can play bass lines, traditional comping, bossa nova. Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
You've got more options in a guitar duet... But... Don't be competitive, don't be a guitar diva even if every guitarist is already a diva : "Be at my tempo, I'm more experimented than you... During my touring in Antarctica... Great players do this... They say he did like this... I do the same... Oh yes, I know this tune... Listen to this chord... Listen again... I'm an advanced player... Listen to this lick... Listen, I put a flat fifth on this chord... Yeah ! Listen to this... Yeah ! Let's play the tune... I know it by heart but let me check my tablet... Sorry you are lost... I can't understand what you're playing... Oh I didn't check the right tune... What is that ? What are you playing ? The tune ? Sorry we've got to work on it for the next week... OK... Oh I've got to work on it... I know this tune better than you... Don't teach me how to play it... Let's play a blues... That was good ! But you were too loud, I couldn't hear me... Oh ? You recorded it ? Let's listen... But were you playing ? What's that shit ? Oh ! Your gear doesn't record very well... Are you sure it's me ?"
A third element is needed to calm down divas : a metronome !
If you can record something from time to time it's better.
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Originally Posted by pauln
I have three current weekly playing situations. One is a guitar-bass duo, we've been getting together for 5-6 years every Monday with a COVID hiatus for a couple of months until we could play outside. The bassist does not want to gig. I would say he is a bit better than me as a general musician (he plays bass, guitar, mandolin, dobro, bass horn) and more styles of music than I play. We push each other with our various strengths and weaknesses and this has been one of the most helpful musical learning experiences I have ever had. I also have quite a few tunes I have written and he's very into original music, some weeks that's all we play. Really helpful as a composer to play the tunes regularly and find their strengths and weaknesses. [Edit: I forgot to mention that I found him by putting an ad on our local Craigslist. Two bass players responded: Paul and another guy who had moved to the area from New York. That guy and I were just not compatible as musicians; we heard the beat and the pocket in very different places and we just could not get into the same groove. It was the darndest thing. He was a fine player, but we just couldn't make it work.]
The second is a bass-guitar-alto sax trio which gigs sometimes and adds musicians as needed. Often a pianist sits in with us. Both plus the pianist are career music teachers and two of them have been playing 65+ years, the other 50+ years. This one pushes me a lot. The sax player is determined to teach me how to play bebop with the fluidity of a sax, which is coming along... glacially, it seems to me. The cool thing is that all three are supportive instead of critical, and all three continue to see themselves as learners. Good role models as musicians and as people.
The third is an adult learners jazz group, most being around my age (65). The alto sax player noted above is the instructor for this group and asked me to help out. It's a different stretch and differently valuable. I am forced to think about what I do and why, rather than lapsing into "automatic" playing.Last edited by Cunamara; 11-19-2024 at 01:13 PM.
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I play the bass in a big band, mixture of amateurs and professionals.
I sometimes play with a flautist, not the best flautist in the world but he is confident, supportive, knows what he wants to play.
He likes going out and gets gigs for us.
I play the 7 string guitar with him.
We are now three, we've got a multi-instrumentalist who plays for real the organ, we've already got a gig even if we only met twice.
We've already got a set list, each one calls a tune and the set list is growing.
Things I already play, things I've never played.
The good thing is that the themes are not played by the same player.
We listen to each other, the organist and I exchange our roles during the tunes.
A guitarist who played the diva with me
years ago wants me as a double bassist now.
The diva ? It is me now !!!
I take my time to call him again, we met again but years ago he pissed me out.
I'm really a kid !
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This is an interesting and important discussion, and I sincerely hope that everyone finds a way to play jazz with others. Playing solo is tons of fun and lots of room for creativity, but playing with others is its own thing. Sometimes opportunities come in unexpected ways.
When I first moved to Japan 15 years ago, I had just picked up the guitar again after a long hiatus from playing, or even owning one. The return to playing was on a nylon string and I dug out some of my old lessons and books from the 1980s when I was studying jazz.
My new job was quite demanding, not to mention getting used to living in another country. So for the first several years with scant free time, it was just playing alone at home with a looper. I brushed up on Autumn Leaves, All the Things You Are and a few other standards.
One of my work colleagues heard that I played guitar and mentioned to her husband, who was a jazz saxophonist. They had just moved to the region, too, and although the husband had played in New York and Tokyo, the region in which we lived was not known as a jazz hot spot. He was practicing alone daily in a small karaoke joint (to not annoy neighbors).
A few months later, he contacted me and asked if I was interested in playing a gig. I was terrified. I hadn't played out in decades, but he said I could pick three tunes and sit in with the piano trio he was playing with. I suggested "All the Things," "Autumn Leaves" and "Just Friends." The gig was at a small "live house" in a nearby city, and a 45mn drive from home.
I practiced as much as I could and worked out the comping and ad-lib, and got through the gig. Afterwards he said it was clear that I "loved jazz" and asked if I'd like to "blend our colors" again. There weren't many gigs, but the live house was interested in holding jazz jam sessions, especially now with a semi-pro in town. And the house master networked other regional players and there was enough people to make it worth while to hold jams. It was billed as open to all levels, including beginners. All involved were happy to be playing.
So I started going to jams and met the other amateur players around town, and upped my game a bit, learning some of the often called tunes, and got a copy of the Jazz Standard Bible (something like a Japanese Real Book). Several months later, the saxophonist asked me if I'd like to sit in on a gig at the same venue, with a trumpet player and a piano trio. They asked me to learn some tunes, including Sidewinder, Flamingo and a Bossa tune I can't recall now. I learned them and sat in and did reasonably well. Meanwhile word was slowly getting around that there was a weekly jazz jam at this venue (which was a multi-genre live house that focused mostly on pop and rock). So each week I went to the jams.
It took a few years, but eventually I found other small venues that held jazz jams. In one instance, I met the trumpet player from the gig and his family by chance at an ice cream parlor. Thought I hadn't seem him at jams, he mentioned an invitation only jam that was actually nearby to where I lived. And that led to another venue about an hour drive from home. So playing kind of snowballed and now I can play at several jam sessions a month.
Some involve driving 45 minutes to an hour each way. They are all "pay to play." Including gas, parking, entrance fees and drink minimums it costs me 2500JPY per session (about 16USD / 13GBP). Money well spent, in my book, but more importantly I'm now part of a vibrant regional jazz jam scene that I had no idea existed when I first moved over here.
Be patient, follow up on every lead, hang out and sit in when possible, be willing to pay and spend time traveling, and there are bound to be options. Above all have some fun.
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Like music, like life. I would say that being out there is useful and it's there that you can make some good connections. You will definitely have the opportunity to make some bad connections - at the jam session level there are people who are cooperative and supportive and those who don't want you to succeed. There are also those who want to be musicians and those who want to 'be' musicians. Like life, don't bother with them. No doubt at the professional level the pressure to be supportive is greater - you never know who you may end up playing with so people behave a bit better - i.e. professionally - at least on the face of it.
The best musicians in my so-called career have come from trying to populate a band, and heart in mouth, approaching people whom you would normally pay to see play. When they say yes, it is a great feeling. Having done that, I reduced my playing contribution though (!). As long as they like the music you present or the sound of the project you are suggesting, it can be great. You will at the same time encounter people who prefer to let you know they are above what you are doing, but you will also meet people who are just decent - and brilliant - musicians. Often looking for something to do. There's a bit of pain and quite a lot of gain.
[Edit: I did a gig with my band which needed a last minute dep on piano. There was 'no' money and it was really quite demanding stuff. I didn't know the guy, he was a bit defensive. I asked him how he felt afterwards and he said it was great to be able to play something that was the reason he/we started out as a musician. Like many good piano players he read the very complicated parts like a dream. I was astounded and very 'made up'.]
I think you need an idea and some structure to work with - just hoping THEY will come up with the ideas is not likely to produce results. Lots of musicians think other musicians are the ones to have the ideas and get the gigs. Some will always be first-call and they get a pass. The rest, the 90% have to schlepp.
Those are two thoughts - the remaining thought is: do as much as you can in as many spheres (social media, local press, post office windows, jam sessions etc.) as you can and in the long run you will meet people. If you live in Area 51 things might be difficult at first, but eventually you will put together a very (very) interesting band.
I advertised in a music paper round about 1980. We were not musically particularly compatible - though he was a good player - but we decided to just be friends which we have been ever since. Like music, like life.
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That was something. First time I've seen it (or the channel). Took them two years to make apparently. More than brilliant. Thanks for posting it. Originally Posted by JimBobWay
So that's what happened to Robbie Robertson!
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I have found that well suited musicians seem to find one another, not too unlike couples. It can take awhile (again just like couples) and the more you put yourself out there, the better chance you have of being in a compatible group.
Musical chemistry is more than just skill level. There needs to be genre chemistry, volume chemistry and mutual commitment. At a certain point compromise in some things is important. I have heard that Django and Stephane had personality issues as did Joe and Oscar (Supposedly, Stephane and Joe were very frugal and Django and Oscar were very profligate). For those cats, the music overcame the differences.
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