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Longtime lurker, but I've been encountering something of late that I thought I might get everyone else's take on the situation.
I'm a somewhat established jazz guitar player in the metropolitan city I live in. I've been gigging here for the last 5-6 years or so, and nothing ever really took off until this last fall. I started getting more gigs than I've ever had in my career. 10+/month. After New Years, it slowed down a bit, but now I've had about 3 gigs in the last 3 months, 2 of which paid shit.
Keep in mind that I'm not a student still learning how this music works or how to play with other people. I'm not a douche to other players, I'm always professional, show up early, don't hog the spotlight, etc. I've got a tight group, playing my own material, a pretty broad knowledge of standards and a confident attitude towards playing. Now that you've got some backstory, let me begin.
Over the last couple months, I've made countless attempts to book gigs at the places I play regularly. They were perfectly happy to give my gigs in the past, but now I can't get shit for a response from any of them. It's like I'm blacklisted from the community or something. I look at all the other successful musicians in the city and most of them are getting calls from other people which is what's filling up their calendar. I very rarely ever get calls for any gigs, and most of the time, I'm left to find my own (which, if you read the paragraphs above, you would know that it's not working for some reason).
This has literally driven me to outbursts of rage in the last couple weeks as I see everyone else getting gigs at these places when I can't even get a response. Before you chime in with the "why don't you ask them how they got the gig" comments, I can tell you that I did just that, and my search for answers has been fruitless to say the least.
So...how are all of you getting gigs?
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04-04-2014 05:32 PM
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Sorry to hear of your trials and tribulations, Chrono! Must be frustrating. I think the slow economy is hurting the entertainment industry just as it hurts my "gig" - primary care medicine. The joke here is I'm looking for music gigs for extra income. Seriously.
In what state or area of the country do you live? What kind of gigs do you get normally? Winery, sophisticated bars, soirees, restaurants, private parties? Any session or commercial work available? And welcome, btw....
Jay
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Well Chrono, tough break, hope it picks up. Do you live in a cold climate? - you said the last three months everything dried up. Do you think it's something that's happening to you individually or have you spoken to other musos who are going through the same thing?
Also, is this playing originals in jazz clubs or is it more doing standards and the like at restaurants/events etc. ?
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I can't say anything about the stylistic differences between those who are getting the bookings and you. Obviously you're playing music and they are playing music but are you guys doing the same kinds of things? You have your profession in common but your music may be an issue. In my experience, a player with a following has a better chance at making an impression with a booking manager than one who doesn't.
Please forgive my insensitivity if I ask the question- do you go to the booking manager with a substantial mailing list in hand? Is there a way of assuring them that you have a following, an interest or a large family who will come and consume copious amounts of alcohol? Do you have an interesting website with vid or sound clips so people can generate an interest in you before they arrive? (These days, people see a listing in a paper, look you up on the web, get excited and come out with their friends to "Check out this amazing guy I discovered!") Do you have a good working relationship with sidemen so you invite them to your gigs and they want to include you in other bookings under their names?
Yeah sorry if I'm stating something you've already done ad nauseum. I'm just thinking of some biggies that I wouldn't want to overlook myself. Are you on a first name basis with any of the club owners or booking managers? This has helped me out in innumerable situations, getting a call because they simply knew me and wanted me to help them out at the last minute.
This is just a matter of style. It's what I'd pay attention to. Good luck
David
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Blacklisted? If that's the case.
How big of a community?
What could have gotten you blacklisted?
It can be difficult to see oneself as others see you... I don't know.
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I'm willing to bet you're getting undercut.
Sorry man...it's terrible out there. 12 years ago I gigged 3-4 nights a week to help pay for college...3 years ago I had to get back out there to pay the bills when I got laid off from my day job. It was fucking brutal...guys were taking gigs for gas money. I had to take some real crap to pay my mortgage...Thank god I got my day job back.
I hope it gets better for you. Eventually these places realize they're getting what they pay for. Keep fighting for all those musicians out there who provide a quality service for a living wage.Last edited by mr. beaumont; 04-04-2014 at 10:16 PM.
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Most of the gigs I'm doing are bar/restaurant dates. Not a lot of corporate work. I don't really have a hookup for that. Occasionally a gospel church gig will come up, but those aren't very often, nothing I can rely on. I teach full time, so it's not really an issue of money, but more the feeling of "with how far I've come, I know I should be out there gigging every weekend" and just not being able to make it happen.
The whole thing about the sidemen...I don't know. I see the guitar players they use for their gigs and they're clearly a level above me in terms of tenure on the scene and overall playing ability. Even so, I can still hang with them. They all have a name and a big reputation, and it seems like nobody knows/cares who the hell I am by comparison. All the sidemen I hire love playing with me and we always have a great repoire.
I'm on a first name basis with all of the club owners that I've been trying to deal with. I've been down to their clubs several times just as an audience member, subbed on gigs there, talked them up afterwards, sent e-mails, and made phone calls...nada. I get the sense, though, that if my name was brought up in conversation, they wouldn't have any idea who I am.
I actually don't have a website, because I figure that it's not worth the money to invest in one to promote my gigs if I have no gigs to promote, you know?
I'm based out of Milwaukee, and it's already hard enough to get people to go out and do/see anything other than go to the bar and watch a game. Pfft. My following really isn't spectacular. I almost wouldn't even call it that.
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i stopped playing jazzSo...how are all of you getting gigs?
HEYOOO
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If jazz rejects you then reject it right back. You can still do it at home on your own.
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Well, here's my "take on the situation" . . but, based only upon what you've posted above;
Originally Posted by chronotriggered
If other jazz guitarists are regularly getting calls and you're not . . then, it's either your music . . or it's you. But, it's definitely not some strange quirk or coincidence. My apologies for the open bluntness . . but, you asked for opinions. Your post above seems to tell a bit of a story. Please see the bold faced blue highlighted comments you made. These would be concerning to me. The blue and underlined comments would give me great concern. What I highlighted in red tells me that you did indeed get the opportunity to establish yourself and/or your music . . and that you might have fallen short of that . . for what ever reason. If it was your music, you wouldn't have worked as much as you did this past fall . . with 10+ gigs per month. Attitude???Last edited by Patrick2; 04-06-2014 at 09:56 AM.
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Times are tough and especially if you only play one style of music. Where I live now the only musicians living off playing are teaching by day and playing all styles by night. Jazz very little going on and most is guys playing for the love of the music and some gas money. The ones making some okay money are playing a lot of family friendly Country music.
So have to check yourself out are you limiting your work possibilities. Also how are you to work with, being a working anything these days you have to watch what you say in person and online. A buddies parents both were cellist with the L.A. Philharmonic did studio and other work. They taught us that a lot of the time the people you don't like are the ones who are hiring you for gigs. That you need to show up on time, be friendly to everyone, get your check and say thank you and go home. Doesn't mean you have to party with them or anything else just be cool, do the job, and keep on working.
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Speaking for myself every time I have been in a slow period I just increase my practice intensity and offer my "problem" to God in prayer...usually works in a week's time....always worth a try....best of luck to you..
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You know a drummer who doesn't?! Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo
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Go down to the clubs and ask them why there aren't booking you.
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Re OP - sorry to hear this! I had a slightly slow start to the year, but things are shaping up.
Most of my gigs are through other people - bands, singers and so on. I have two projects - a Blue Note style guitar trio and a eclectic world/jazz fusion project, and it's slow going hustling with both, though I have occasional success. Mostly it's trying to get my foot in the door rather than rebooking for me. Most places seem very concerned with the bottom line, needless to say.
It's aggravating that someone should have booked you once and be reluctant to do so now.
I'm sorry I don't have much advice other than that, as I don't know your situation. I think managing ones expectations and being open are important, although difficult. Other than that, purely pragmatically, work on your reading and your time. Those are two things you can always work on however long you've been working on them, and guitarists who can read and really play in time are like gold dust.
I know we all want to be improvisors first and foremost, but those are the two things I've struggled most with, and now often things singled out by players as strong points in my playing. The joke is I'm a pretty crummy reader by non-guitar standards, and I hardly think my time is beyond fault :-) But I'm better than I was.
Hope things improve for you soon!Last edited by christianm77; 04-09-2014 at 09:43 PM.
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Oh last thing - I pick up a fair percentage of gigs by hanging out with friends who happen to be musicians. Networks are very important.
But you can't force it. I try never to go out if I'm in looking for gigs mode. I go for a drink, listen to others perform music, sitting in (but never too much) and just enjoying the hang and having a good time. No expectations.
It's often then that someone says - 'hey are you free Thursday?'Last edited by christianm77; 04-09-2014 at 09:57 PM.
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LOL. Too simple. Jazz musicians like to keep everything complicated. There has to be some existential reason why people don't like your music. Originally Posted by teok
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I saw a vid recently of a fairly well known American guitarist playing a gig. They audience applauded at the beginning of the song to show they knew it. Where was this annoying ritual taking place? The US, not Japan. The audience was saying thank you for not playing another original song with a stupid melody.
If this happened to me on a gig in Japan I would try to be diplomatic about it. People love standards. I do too. If this happened on a gig in the US I wouldn't like it at all. I would think the crowd was a bunch of touristy types. So, you've been to Japan eh? Me too but I was never a tourist there.
OP, you could try to talk to the people that used to book you and see if people aren't digging your originals or maybe something else happened. Don't expect too much but it's worth a shot. Things could just be slow. Whatever it is don't get bent out of shape over it and remember pride comes before the fall. Unemployed jazz musicians are legion.
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Let me get this straight: You would be upset if your audience applauded after hearing something that they recognized and enjoyed? Originally Posted by Stevebol
Man, this jazz business is even more complicated than I thought...
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If Americans have adopted the applause thing they're saying; Originally Posted by Jehu
Look at me! I know the song AND I have the time and money to take vacations in Tokyo!!
Jehu, don't listen to me. I've never played a jazz gig in my life it's just the stuff I practice all the time. I'm just kidding around.
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^^^
I'm trying to cheer up the OP. Can't take things too seriously sometimes. Losing gigs sucks.
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I have a couple of thoughts, but I have no idea if they will be helpful or worthless.
First off, originals are a hard sell with an audience. People tend to like to hear what's familiar and what's easy to follow. Originals, almost by definition, tend not to be.
Second, and this is a discussion that I've had with a number of professional musicians and it has always become rancorous, is that it's best for the musician to find his own following and not to depend on the club owner or restaurant owner to provide an audience. I have quite literally heard musicians complain vociferously that the reason there's no audience at their gigs is that the club owner did not do enough to market them. I think if you asked the restaurant owner you would find they feel they have enough to do just to run their business and keep the doors open, let alone marketing for the musicians. Jazz club owners, of course, will have a marketing mechanism of their own place for that and the audience will be expecting jazz.
A good friend of mine gigs regularly, perhaps 15 gigs a month, and she does so by having a loyal audience that comes out and hears her. This makes her very marketable to restaurants, bars and clubs because they know that an audience will come, purchase goods and enhance the bottom line for the evening. I know a lot of musicians, by contrast, who show up for their gig need to somehow expect there to magically be an audience. They seem to think it's the restauranteurs' or club owners' responsibility to find people to listen to them. They tend to see themselves as providing a service just by showing up. My friend pointed out to me that it is the work the musician does offstage to develop an audience and a relationship with club owners that results in gigs, not the work that they do on learning the Lydian chromatic concept.
All that being said, I am essentially a hobbyist musician. My band and I gig 2 to 5 times a month and do it primarily to have fun. We charge for our services to avoid undercutting professional musicians, not because we need the money (we all have good day jobs except for the retired guy). These are usually coffeeshop gigs or bars where the 20 or so people that will come out to hear us have a positive impact on the establishments' revenues for the evening. We get there on time, we get set up efficiently, we start on time, our breaks are short, and we end on time. We keep the volume to an appropriate level for the venue. We don't drink excessively during the gig. Basically, we try to make ourselves as reliable and user-friendly as possible.
In my opinion, for getting gigs it does not matter how hard you work on learning jazz, how many years you have into it, how many thousands of dollars axes cost, how many hours we have spent refining our tone, etc. For the club owner, restaurant, etc., what counts for them is how much extra revenue we bring to them. The extra revenue that we bring has to more than offset the cost of the fee they pay us. If not, they're losing money on us and they will not have us back. A college student singer – songwriter who brings in 50 of their friends for the evening is more likely to get called back for another gig than we are if we only bring in 10 people. We've all seen situations where musical idiots keep getting booked for gigs.
We also have to bear in mind that jazz has a limited audience and a lot of people actively dislike the music because it's complicated and takes a lot of information processing to understand. Play progressive jazz at a restaurant and people may very well complain to the management about the music and that gig will be gone. Music has to be at least somewhat accessible and enjoyable to people so that they get into it, have fun, stay longer and buy a few extra drinks. It also helps if they tell the staff at the facility how much they enjoyed us. We may think of this as art but for the restaurant owner it's a popularity contest. The trick is to be able to dovetail those things.
To get and keep gigs we have to keep an eye on the realities of the market such as it is.Last edited by Cunamara; 04-13-2014 at 12:10 AM. Reason: fixing voice recognition errors
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To the audience:
If you don't like us tell me why.
If you do like us tell the owner why.
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Play a different kind of music. Or, if you are in the US get out if you can and go someplace where people like live music. Watch it with the originals though. Jazz is a tough sell to begin with so you might want to put the originals on hold.
Can you play solo? You need to change your game up somehow and move forward.
The 'outbursts of rage' thing is a little scary. You sound like a white dude, no offense, I'm one too. Take it easy.
We're trying to help here. I'm not gigging either. Haven't gigged in ages.
Explore your options and remember, we usually have more than we are willing to admit to ourselves.
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Thanks for all the replies, by the way.
The whole thing about an audience not liking originals...I know what you guys are saying. If it's a public place (i.e. a restaurant) where the music is not the focus, I tend to do a lot more standards. Not standard standards like Bye Bye Blackbird necessarily, but tunes that people know the words to. The gigs I'm talking about are places where people come to hear the music and not watch whatever sport is on the 8,000 flatscreen monitors above the bar.
I do play other music, though. I'm in a metal band that's released a few albums, has material licensed through ESPN, WWE, and the like, and it's generated a lot of my side money as a musician. A hell of a lot more than playing jazz anyway. That being said, I don't enjoy doing that nearly as much, so it's what you would call a pickle.
I think maybe you're on to something with the "hanging out with friends" thing. I really don't do a lot of that very much, either going to their gigs or just hanging on the side. If I'm being honest, I don't really have too many people that I would even say are my friends. Most of the other musicians I talk with/gig with and whatnot are more like acquaintances. We don't really get together unless it's for a gig or a rehearsal for a gig.
Stevebol, I am white, yes. lol
Not gigging is not an option for me. I take this music seriously and try to get as much out of every experience as I can. Playing music is what I was meant to be doing, so naturally a get a little on edge when my calendar starts to get sparse. Especially as I watch less qualified, less talented, and less serious musicians get the same gigs. It's maddening.
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