The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #26

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    Right...but that's what, ten cats? There's probably 500 jazz guitar players here in chicago.

    If you are going to be an average joe no name musician who makes a living...jazz alone is a tough way to do it..lets face it...it's tough to do with ANY kind of music...

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  3. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
    Right...but that's what, ten cats? There's probably 500 jazz guitar players here in chicago.
    Exactly...some people do it...but very few...

  4. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
    Right...but that's what, ten cats? There's probably 500 jazz guitar players here in chicago.

    If you are going to be an average joe no name musician who makes a living...jazz alone is a tough way to do it..lets face it...it's tough to do with ANY kind of music...
    Yeah . . that's ten cats that I referrenced. But, do you doubt that there are thousands others who are doing well, financially, playing, teaching jazz guitar? Mine was a response to what I felt was way too broad a statement. Also, as you pointed out, just like any other industry . . (maybe any other industry is also too broad) . . most other industries, there are also far more people skilled enough to earn well, that do not do so.

    As it realtes to jazz guitar, I found Jake's comments and attitude to be those of a defeatist . . . if aspirations are to seek financial success with jazz guitar.

    I could never accept the concept of ... "I'm probably never going to be able to earn a lot of money at jazz guitar . . . so, there's really no reason for me to even try".


    There will ALWAYS be those who do very well financially in jazz guitar. Should people just stop trying to be one of them because it's difficult? Or because the odds are dramatically against it happening? That's just not an attitude that I've ever been even remotely on board with.

    "It's supposed to be hard. If it wasn't hard everyone would do it. The hard is what makes it great". (Jimmy Doogan, A League of their own.)

  5. #29

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    Mainly private teaching for me, augmented by gigs (mostly jazz), workshops, orchestra pit work, guitar repairs etc.
    Worst ever was accompanying a puppeteer playing kid's songs in a hospital :-o NOT the highpoint of my career!

  6. #30

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    I've done/do everything on the list except writing for TV and movies and i have to say, the money I can count on almost always comes from teaching. In fact, I often remind myself that the teaching is what allows me to do so much playing.

    It's not that teaching pays more, just that it is something a musician can "count on" to a small degree. A rare find in the music world. I am a firm believer in "the dream" and think it is still totally possible, it does require you to jump blindly into uncertainty and work your way up, but I've seen it happen.... I've also seen it fail. Scary stuff, I think most people prefer to play it safe, and understandibly so.

  7. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by paynow
    I tip my hat to you, Tstrahle.
    Thanks PayNow.

    My friends would say I stayed very focused. Moved out here to be Tommy Tedecso, Lukather, Carlton... like 2000 other guys in 1983. Forced myself to stay in music anyway I could, ergo the list in the OP. Lessons were a great way to "stay in the game", there were a few times I got distracted and strayed a little.

    A lot of old guard session players will tell you it's not like it use to be. To which I say "thank God". But I know what they are saying, there is actually a lot more TV work than there use to be, but not union TV session dates. Back in the day there were 10 or so guys doing all the sessions for 3 networks, now there are thousands of guys writing for hundreds of cable channels. I do quite a bit of writing for TV, which I play guitar, bass and keys on. It's the gift that keeps on giving. Many of my "sessions" are writing sessions, in which all are generally recorded as finals. I don't "demo" any more. We make records. This way I've been able to partner with many great producers, writers and artists (Including recently Justin Bieber and Taboo from The Black Eyed Peas)

    I've really tried to grow the business I love, writing and sessions, so I don't have to do the other stuff so much. Turning down work that might prove a distraction is a nice luxury. My church bandmates laugh at me when I say, "I didn't want that gig anyway". Like when I auditioned but didn't get the George Lopez show gig. Had I gotten it I couldn't have gotten the TV writing work I've since done, and that's been far more lucrative.

  8. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by tstrahle
    A lot of old guard session players will tell you it's not like it use to be. To which I say "thank God". But I know what they are saying, there is actually a lot more TV work than there use to be, but not union TV session dates. Back in the day there were 10 or so guys doing all the sessions for 3 networks, now there are thousands of guys writing for hundreds of cable channels. I do quite a bit of writing for TV, which I play guitar, bass and keys on. It's the gift that keeps on giving. Many of my "sessions" are writing sessions, in which all are generally recorded as finals. I don't "demo" any more. We make records. This way I've been able to partner with many great producers, writers and artists (Including recently Justin Bieber and Taboo from The Black Eyed Peas)
    I'm SAG-AFTRA. If I'm acting in a union show, aren't you getting paid a union wage to write music for it? You're supposed to, that's for sure. Favored nations. Even the cable stuff, if it's under a contract, you're supposed to get a session rate.

    You say "the gift that keeps on giving," so I'm assuming you're getting residuals on some stuff you do.

    What I'm curious about is which shows are not paying union? The reality horse-hit?

  9. #33

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    There is no union for composers. They are talking about doing it, but it's not materialized yet. Also many TV shows use library music that's not union. No way to keep track of it. That's just the reality. Most film scores are not even union if they are done out of the US.

    Re: gift that keeps giving I mean BMI royalties.

  10. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by tstrahle
    There is no union for composers. They are talking about doing it, but it's not materialized yet. Also many TV shows use library music that's not union. No way to keep track of it. That's just the reality. Most film scores are not even union if they are done out of the US.

    Re: gift that keeps giving I mean BMI royalties.
    Oh. Not something I was aware of. But you do get royalties from BMI or ASCAP. And if you play on a show, is it the musician's local, meaning as a session player for the incidental music? If you appear on camera with an instrument, that's SAG-AFTRA jurisdiction.

  11. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by paynow
    Oh. Not something I was aware of. But you do get royalties from BMI or ASCAP. And if you play on a show, is it the musician's local, meaning as a session player for the incidental music? If you appear on camera with an instrument, that's SAG-AFTRA jurisdiction.
    The writing thing pays much better than scale for a TV date. Over time especially. The sidelining gigs (appearing on camera but faking it) are unfortunately AFM not SAG/AFTRA. Pay is about $200 for an 8 hour day, plus residuals. Usually more with overtime and everything. Would make more teaching for the day but it's a nice diversion.

    There are no TV dates for sidemen really. Most everything is samples or played by the composer. Two exceptions I can think of are The Simpsons and Family Guy, both show use real orchestra.

  12. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick2
    Yeah . . that's ten cats that I referrenced. But, do you doubt that there are thousands others who are doing well, financially, playing, teaching jazz guitar?
    Yes, I do doubt that! But I'd be happy to be proven wrong.

    What can you do...make CDs, teach at a college, write books or start online courses. How many people are making their living from just that - with all of it or most of it being just jazz? I'd be very surprised if it were in the thousands, but I'm just speculating. I don't have the data. If you do have some data, please share. I've heard that it's REALLY rough right now for some of even the best jazz players in NYC.

    As it realtes to jazz guitar, I found Jake's comments and attitude to be those of a defeatist . . . if aspirations are to seek financial success with jazz guitar.
    Honestly...prove me wrong, please. I just have a feeling that there are very, very few musicians in the world who make their living solely (or even mostly) from jazz.

    I could never accept the concept of ... "I'm probably never going to be able to earn a lot of money at jazz guitar . . . so, there's really no reason for me to even try".

    There will ALWAYS be those who do very well financially in jazz guitar. Should people just stop trying to be one of them because it's difficult? Or because the odds are dramatically against it happening? That's just not an attitude that I've ever been even remotely on board with.
    I hear you. I think it's cool to try, if one accepts the risk or is in a position where the risk isn't too great. For example, if you're 18 and motivated and have rich parents. Give it ten years and see what can happen and if all else fails live at home and then go back to school for nursing or something.

    I heard a good piece of advice once, which was to only pursue being a jazz musician as a career if you can't possibly picture yourself doing anything else. If you can do that other thing, do that.

  13. #37

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    Hey paynow. I agree with you 100% that every gig has value. That's what put me through school as well. To be totally honest, I loved to play so much, I never turned down a gig no matter who I was working it with. Not only that but I played a lot of them for less money than I should have just so I could have the chance to play. I had my favorites but there were also a lot of guys that were so square, you could get cut on the corners. I also learned a great deal about music and how to play in a band so you don't step all over everyone else. That was a hard lesson to learn but I enjoyed the experience even though I had to take a bunch of lumps. I wouldn't trade my experiences for anything.

  14. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by tstrahle
    The writing thing pays much better than scale for a TV date. Over time especially. The sidelining gigs (appearing on camera but faking it) are unfortunately AFM not SAG/AFTRA. Pay is about $200 for an 8 hour day, plus residuals. Usually more with overtime and everything. Would make more teaching for the day but it's a nice diversion.

    There are no TV dates for sidemen really. Most everything is samples or played by the composer. Two exceptions I can think of are The Simpsons and Family Guy, both show use real orchestra.
    I just looked at the SAG Theatrical and Commercial contracts. Dancers and singers are covered in those, not players. I never knew that. But I'm pretty sure that if I was cast in something, as an actor who plays, I would be getting paid through SAG/AFTRA. They'd put it under a special skills category, especially if it was background.

  15. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by hot ford coupe
    Hey paynow. I agree with you 100% that every gig has value. That's what put me through school as well. To be totally honest, I loved to play so much, I never turned down a gig no matter who I was working it with. Not only that but I played a lot of them for less money than I should have just so I could have the chance to play. I had my favorites but there were also a lot of guys that were so square, you could get cut on the corners. I also learned a great deal about music and how to play in a band so you don't step all over everyone else. That was a hard lesson to learn but I enjoyed the experience even though I had to take a bunch of lumps. I wouldn't trade my experiences for anything.
    Great learning experiences that beat playing in your bedroom. I had a teacher tell me that you have to play with bad bands sometimes to learn what it's like to play with a good one.