The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary

View Poll Results: Do you play as a job or as a hobby?

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  • Career

    61 14.56%
  • Hobby

    215 51.31%
  • I get paid occasionally/not full time musician

    143 34.13%
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  1. #76

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    Incidentally, I actually invented Jazz and get a huge royalty check every week. But I mostly do smooth jazz jingles and music for restaurants on my casio but give all the profits to Invisible Children. So I don't know where that puts me in this poll...

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  3. #77

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    The fact is, though, that to get sensitive about what is or is not "pro" seems to me to mostly just be an issue of ego. Sorry if that's a point already made - this thread is damn long.

    Going back to the original post, I suppose the whole side discussion could have been avoided had he asked "musicians: how do you make your living and are you starving and if not do you have kids" or something

  4. #78

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    I'm an amateur guitarist who is striving every day to become a professional. Of course, after reading the responses here, it seems like everyone has their own definition of what professional means. To me, a professional guitar player is someone who has multiple qualities that mark skill, dedication, discipline, and experience.

    Does a professional always get paid? Not necessarily.

    Can someone be a professional archer? Yes, but that doesn't mean that there is a "market" of customers that will pay archers to shoot arrows into targets and whatnot. Same goes for any professional that isn't as lucrative.

    It's all about what's in it for the consumer and consequent they put their own value on a product. So to me being a professional is more about having certain qualities rather than getting paid lots of money, if any at all.

  5. #79

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    Quote Originally Posted by SeedsOfMusic
    I'm an amateur guitarist who is striving every day to become a professional. Of course, after reading the responses here, it seems like everyone has their own definition of what professional means. To me, a professional guitar player is someone who has multiple qualities that mark skill, dedication, discipline, and experience.

    Does a professional always get paid? Not necessarily.

    If Kenny Burrell play a gig and gets paid for it, he's a professional. If he play a charity and doesn't get paid for it... he's still a professional guitarist . . . but, that's because he does do gigs for monitary compensation.
    Can someone be a professional archer? Yes, but that doesn't mean that there is a "market" of customers that will pay archers to shoot arrows into targets and whatnot. Same goes for any professional that isn't as lucrative.

    A professional archer?? Sounds like a hit man to me
    It's all about what's in it for the consumer and consequent they put their own value on a product. So to me being a professional is more about having certain qualities rather than getting paid lots of money, if any at all.
    We've all decided that there are many acceptable definitions and interpretations for the use of the words . . "professional" and even for the word . . "semantics". However, if the term is to be understood in its truest sense, there needs to be some form of compensation, somewhere along the way. Otherwise, I see it as "very skilled hobbyist guitarist capable of performing at a professional level".

    (not trying to stir the pot here .. . just seeing if I've got this multi-quote procedure correctly understood)
    Last edited by Patrick2; 03-25-2012 at 07:03 PM.

  6. #80

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    I'm a twelve year old, but I had to put down get paid occasional/not full time.

  7. #81

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    Quote Originally Posted by Theza101
    I'm a twelve year old, but I had to put down get paid occasional/not full time.
    Looking forward to see you become a real pro.

  8. #82

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    Now I'm beginning to understand why folks think getting a degree from places like Berklee will make them a pro. Because a piece of paper says so! No career needed. I bought a diploma somewhere online for $5 at the same place that sold me a dentists license.


  9. #83

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    Lot`s of nit-picking on this thread..

    Back to the original question:

    I make most of my income playing music playing around 200 days a year (or so)besides Jazz I also play bluegrass (flatpicking) and acoustic blues. I told myself years ago that I would rather grind it out playing music for money than anything else I can think of. I feel pretty lucky to be able to make money with a guitar. I started out as a band nerd in school (trombone) and playing guitar when I was 13 (I`m 49).

  10. #84

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    Don't know, or care what a couple of members here deem a pro.
    I have made a living, albeit sometimes a poor one, for the last 40 years, playing music.
    I currently teach full time, yes, by choice.
    I gave up gigging some time ago and therefore relinquished my status as a "professional". At least, that is what I've deemed from this thread.
    So be it.
    This place is getting tiresome.

    The preceding message was sponsored by E&J Gallo.

  11. #85

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    I'm a jazz studies major in college student, but all my money comes from doing local country, blues, and rock gigs. I don't consider myself a great jazz guitarist, but I would like to get there. There are a lot of cons to music like odd hours, but a pro is typically musicians make more money per hour while working than the typical joe smoe, but musicians don't get as many hours at work. It is not un common for a musician to charge from 40 - 75 bucks an hour teaching private lessons or making $200 for a 4 hour gig, but if you only get 2 gigs a week you end up with a lot less money than someone working full time.
    Last edited by S_R_S5; 04-24-2012 at 03:40 AM.

  12. #86

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    Hobbyist here. While I love to play out and will gig as much as possible, I harbor no delusions about making my living playing guitar.

  13. #87

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    Quote Originally Posted by pantz
    Hobbyist here. While I love to play out and will gig as much as possible, I harbor no delusions about making my living playing guitar.
    That's pretty much true of many of us here. But, if you occasionally earn money playing guitar . . . then, you are "mostly a hobbyist, but, occasionally a professional". As such, you are now officially inducted into the "semi-pro" league . . . . with no interested in ever "going to the show". (Tim Robbins . . . Bull Durham)

    Can't believe this old thread is resurrected.

  14. #88

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    The profession of musician has changed a great deal in my lifetime and will change more still. I don't know that the role of performing jazz musician is still viable.

    I'm almost at the level of hobby jazz guitar.
    Last edited by Spook410; 09-17-2012 at 10:57 PM.

  15. #89

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    I play as a career. And have for many years. Supporting a family of five. In music I've done many things to pay the rent. Most enumerated here...

    Pro Guitar Secrets: Making a living as a guitar player...

    Love to hear about music related jobs you all have done to keep the lights on.

  16. #90

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    I'm definitely on the 'semi' side of 'semi-pro'. I have a serious/secure very well paying day gig in software R&D and play occasional jazz guitar-related gigs. That said, I have studied music formally for many years and still seriously 'shed' an average of 15 hours per week for most of the year. My aspiration is to be as "complete" of a guitarist/musician as possible and hopefully by the time I retire from my day-gig (in 12 years or so) I'll have the depth and breadth of ability/repertoire to be considered a true artist. Fortunately I can buy world-class custom guitars and great gear without having to make a dime from music. I can also focus on only playing music that I love because making money from it is not an issue. The only down side is that my professional commitments along with consistent jazz guitar practice means that I don't have much of a social life and only a few friends. Thankfully my wonderful wife is very understanding in all of this and totally supports my musical endeavors!
    Last edited by SevenStringJazz; 10-03-2012 at 11:16 PM.

  17. #91

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    Quote Originally Posted by SevenStringJazz
    I'm definitely on the 'semi' side of 'semi-pro'. I have a serious/secure very well paying day gig and play occasional gigs. That said, I have studied music formally for many years and still seriously 'shed' an average of 15 hours per week for most of the year. My aspiration is to be as "complete" of a guitarist/musician as possible and hopefully by the time I retire from my day-gig (in 12 years or so) I'll have the depth and breadth of ability/repertoire to be considered a true artist.
    What an absolutely unfair assessment of yourself that is. Given that you're currently proficient enough to be playing the occasional gig . . . and that you have studied music formally for many years . . and you can still devote 15 hours a week to honing your skills . . . .why the hell wouldn't you already consider yourself a "true artist"???

    Is there a certain number in the repertoire catagory that one must achieve to be considered a "true artist"?? "Gimme a break" . . . (Warner Wolf, ABC News). You've already achieved the "true artist" level stature as far as I can see. You just might need to increase your repertoire. No one knows all the tunes!! If you have the ability to learn the tunes . . . you're already there. No one ever stops learning.

  18. #92

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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick2
    What an absolutely unfair assessment of yourself that is. Given that you're currently proficient enough to be playing the occasional gig . . . and that you have studied music formally for many years . . and you can still devote 15 hours a week to honing your skills . . . .why the hell wouldn't you already consider yourself a "true artist"???

    Is there a certain number in the repertoire catagory that one must achieve to be considered a "true artist"?? "Gimme a break" . . . (Warner Wolf, ABC News). You've already achieved the "true artist" level stature as far as I can see. You just might need to increase your repertoire. No one knows all the tunes!! If you have the ability to learn the tunes . . . you're already there. No one ever stops learning.
    Thanks for the encouragement Patrick! It's quite possible that I'm too hard on myself. In any case here are links to some recordings I did in the spring of 2012 that approximate whatever level of artistry I may have already obtained. The 7-String archtop takes were done with a plectrum, although I'm predominately a finger-style player now.

    Trenier Excel 7 takes:

    Four-2-the-bar Bop
    Stomp the Into
    Walkups
    Alice Low
    Alice High
    Ballad Intro
    Chords High-to-Low

    Trenier Mofif take:

    Motif. Brouwer's Estudio 6.
    Last edited by SevenStringJazz; 10-04-2012 at 07:29 AM.

  19. #93

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    Quote Originally Posted by SevenStringJazz
    Thanks for the encouragement Patrick! It's quite possible that I'm too hard on myself. In any case here are links to some recordings I did in the spring of 2012 that approximate whatever level of artistry I may have already obtained. The 7-String archtop takes were done with a plectrum, although I'm predominately a finger-style player now.

    Trenier Excel 7 takes:

    Four-2-the-bar Bop
    Stomp the Into
    Walkups
    Alice Low
    Alice High
    Ballad Intro
    Chords High-to-Low

    Trenier Mofif take:

    Motif. Brouwer's Estudio 6.

    MAN - I love your comping sound clips. Right now, comping this kind of stuff (four to the bar!) is my main interest. I do it on acoustic archtop. Could you tell me where you learned these? Are they yours, or are they from a book? There's a great comping book you probably know of -- Jim Ferguson's "All Blues Comping Styles and Grooves" -- or something like that. Great book.

    Let me know - super playing you're doing there!

    KJ

  20. #94

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kojo27
    MAN - I love your comping sound clips. Right now, comping this kind of stuff (four to the bar!) is my main interest. I do it on acoustic archtop. Could you tell me where you learned these? Are they yours, or are they from a book? There's a great comping book you probably know of -- Jim Ferguson's "All Blues Comping Styles and Grooves" -- or something like that. Great book.

    Let me know - super playing you're doing there!

    KJ
    Thanks KoJo! I appreciate your kind words. Recently, I spent a year or so playing a lot of traditional four-to-the-bar in two different local Big Bands. The first track is a Bb Bebop exercise from Charlton Johnson's excellent book on Swing and Big Band Guitar. Mr. Johnson was the first guitarist to take up Freddie Green's chair in the Basie Band after Freddie died.

    FWIW - my Trenier Excel 7-String was strung with bronze strings and recorded completely acoustically for that take. I played with a heavy gauge Cool Pick brand plectrum and recorded in our tiled bathroom with a ribbon mic to get as natural as sound as possible. I believe that I muted out the low A (i.e. 7-th string) on all of the four-to-the-bar stuff.
    Last edited by SevenStringJazz; 10-04-2012 at 08:13 PM.

  21. #95
    making music usually money is made as something off to the side.Like your family is rich or you have a business that the males can relate to while in the band.

  22. #96

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    Quote Originally Posted by tstrahle
    I play as a career. And have for many years. Supporting a family of five. In music I've done many things to pay the rent. Most enumerated here...

    Pro Guitar Secrets: Making a living as a guitar player...

    Love to hear about music related jobs you all have done to keep the lights on.
    "It's not a career for the easily discouraged or for someone who likes or needs job security."

    Very good point on your webpage. At 18, I seriously considered going to college for music, but in the end, the financial part scared me off. I am a little anxious by nature and would not have coped well with financial uncertainty and/or financial stress. I think it would have taken away from my enjoyment of playing music. I also didn't think I would enjoy teaching guitar that much. So instead I got another career, took tons of private lessons, and have always practiced a lot within the confines of having a "day job" (2 hours per day of practice on average). At 45, I am not unhappy with how it all turned out. I'd love to have 3 or 4 hours per day to practice, but I still play in a quartet and do play gigs fairly regularly now. I do have a lot of financial security that I probably would not have had with a music career. It hasn't been a bad tradeoff for me. But again, your point is a great one. I think that in addition to talent, it takes a certain type of personality to do music as a career.

  23. #97

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick5
    "It's not a career for the easily discouraged or for someone who likes or needs job security."

    Very good point on your webpage. At 18, I seriously considered going to college for music, but in the end, the financial part scared me off. I am a little anxious by nature and would not have coped well with financial uncertainty and/or financial stress. I think it would have taken away from my enjoyment of playing music. I also didn't think I would enjoy teaching guitar that much. So instead I got another career, took tons of private lessons, and have always practiced a lot within the confines of having a "day job" (2 hours per day of practice on average). At 45, I am not unhappy with how it all turned out. I'd love to have 3 or 4 hours per day to practice, but I still play in a quartet and do play gigs fairly regularly now. I do have a lot of financial security that I probably would not have had with a music career. It hasn't been a bad tradeoff for me. But again, your point is a great one. I think that in addition to talent, it takes a certain type of personality to do music as a career.
    I think most of those who end up doing it full time are those who felt they had no choice. It's a calling almost. It's like imaginative writing: poems, stories, essays -- no money in it, but those who excel at it can't stop. It's part of who they are. Same with guitar, I suspect. Just my opinion.

  24. #98

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    Kojo27,

    I am sure that's true for many people. I can only speak for myself. I personally know I would not function well emotionally with financial uncertainty or financial stress. It's just part of my psychological makeup. I'm not a risk taker. I'd have sleepless nights all the time. I'm quite sure of that.

    I respect the people who can make it work though!

  25. #99

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sandor
    Have you actually talked to these guys about their gigs at restaurants? I'm curious if they are unhappy. I see lots of people talk bad about these kinds of gigs, but personally I would be happy to have a regular gig at a couple of restaurants playing background music. Its a low stress venue, and you can get away with a lot more. (I haven't played restaurant gigs, but i've played Business functions, I assume the atmosphere would be about the same)
    I love restaurant gigs. You don't get much feed back while playing, but as people leave they usually tip well, compliment and offer very short discussions. It is a skill to be unobtrusive, you are there to add to a dining experience. You can get fired VERY easily (thankfully I've dodged that bullet!) but the rotation is biweekly as opposed to monthly or less in music venues, which pay far less.

  26. #100

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kojo27
    I think most of those who end up doing it full time are those who felt they had no choice. It's a calling almost. It's like imaginative writing: poems, stories, essays -- no money in it, but those who excel at it can't stop. It's part of who they are. Same with guitar, I suspect. Just my opinion.
    I think that's largely true for me in the creative sense. I would have to create even if I didn't play guitar. In fact I started writing songs when I was seven even though I didn't start playing guitar until I was nine. For my current hobby, I write screenplays. I've written 4 features and a pilot. I still practice guitar, but not the eight hours (no kidding) a day I did for 20 years. But I probably play eight hours a day for work.