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There are over 10,000 qualified guitarists trying to get one of the 1000 full time opportunities that are already filled....that's the reality. Jazz is played for love of the music. Remember, you are competing with folks that will play for free, because they love it so much.
I get a kick out of young single guys still living with mom and dad advising that it can be done. There are guys out there that can play as good as Wes, Metheny, Scofield, and even they can't do it. You can tell who's full of shit, they're the one's suggesting it's possible. Even the rare ones that do make a living totally from music will tell you it's not secure in any way, and you'll spend most of your time doing things other than performing.
Get a job at Guitar Center, teach some lessons and play some weddings.
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11-05-2011 01:01 PM
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I think this is my favorite one so far!
Originally Posted by JakeAcci
You guys are harsh ... but fairly accurate. "Making a living" is a vert relative thing, of course; it sounds like the OP is a young student, so he probably hasn't thought much about the "lifestyle" aspects of a music career, or other future plans (i.e., family, vacations, home, college for the kids, health insurance, etc.). I like the idea of being a music educator, but of course those jobs are hard to get, too, and the arts are always the first to go in a school district. A friend of mine is one of the best woodwind players in the San Francisco area, and he hustles day and night to make money. He's fortunate, though, to have a great wife with a great job, so the pressure's not too bad.
Hal Crook, music educator/performer extraordinaire, writes about careers in his excellent book, "Ready, Aim, Improvise!" and he basically says (paraphrasing here), "If there's anything else you can do for a career, do it, and play jazz on the side!"
I'm a psychologist by day, but musician for life (I have a music degree, and then got a PhD in psych), and I love studying jazz and performing whatever kind of jazz I want, without pressures or dance requests or "Freebird."
Hal also says, "If you feel you have to live and breathe jazz, then go for it. But neurosurgeons have more fun."
Marc
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Speaking as someone who's been spending a lot of the last several months looking at colleges, my advice is simple: Don't do music for a living. I forgot who said it, but I think it's very true. "If you want to play music for a living, don't. But if you have to play music for a living, it's the best job ever."
My band director said "If you really want to do music, study music education. It's the most available music-related job. The pay isn't great, but the hours are usually good and it's a fun job."
Me? I'm going to double major in music and a TBD "paying for food" degree.
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"Stock" library/production music and "commissioned" music for media can be lucrative although I understand that these areas are as competitive as any other in music. The ability to rapidly and convincingly produce music in diverse styles - not just rock/pop/jazz styles - would help ... Originally Posted by SammieWammie
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What kind of diverse styles? Dubstep? I can't imagine a dubstep session guitarist, I could be wrong though.
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You can't imagine it? Nobody else can either. No competition. The field is wide open an it's yours. Now make your mark. Originally Posted by SammieWammie
Some of the best opportunities come from things nobody else has imagined yet. The next time you have a formal gig, show up in a full body zebra suit. At first, of course, they may lookat you a little strange, but when everybody demands their musician wears zebra suits, you will have already established yourself as the "one."
If you play bass, you'll get all the calls you can handle. I hear there are all sorts of opportunities for people that want to work with bass, IF you're willing to work under water. I had a friend that specialized, no largemouth for him, just striped bass. He had so much work he was always in over his head. But he had the bottom end all to himself.
David
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Your comment about the zebra suit is actually quite relevant, after getting some constructive criticism about how my solo guitar playing was skillful but not much of a performance (damn singers can dance around the stage and make eye contact with the crowd but what can a solo guitarist do?) my immediate thought was: "... I'll wear a big fluffy lion suit, that's the answer."
As for bass, I learned electric bass before I learned guitar and my 1st jazz exposure was playing bass, so I can walk averagely on an electric but not a double, and honestly I don't want to be a jazz bassist. Funk I wouldn't mind but really jazz bass is necessary to jazz but not an art in my opinion. Jimmy Smith had it down, playing a bassline with his feet so there's no need for a bassist. I'd much prefer to be one of the other musicians calling up the overworked bassist asking them to play a gig.
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Grasshopper, when you can snatch the pebble from my hand... When you can learn to hear what a great, or really good bass player can give you, you may find yourself eating those words. A good bass player will let you breathe, give the entire group something that gives it life, meaning and interest. Are you familiar with George Mraz? Jaco Pastorius, Jonas Helborg playing with John McLaughlin, Have you ever heard of Ben Street? Charnett Moffett? Originally Posted by SammieWammie
You may not choose to work in that sonic range because you don't hear in that way, but keep your ears open to the roles of the bass player and listen a lot to what it means to be a good/great bass player. It could effect your opinion of whether bass can be considered artful.
David
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I've only dabbled at the very edges of this stuff, but it seems to me that the ability to pick up a style of music you aren't at all familiar with quickly (tango, baroque chamber orchestra, grime, etc , etc), to the point where you can produce something convincing in that style, is a plus for media music. The ability to produce the result at a competitive price yet to a high standard in a home studio probably counts for a lot too. Originally Posted by SammieWammie
It's not jazz or guitar (unless that's what the brief calls for), but it's musically challenging and is a potential source of income.Last edited by Bill C; 11-06-2011 at 02:35 PM. Reason: removed potentially confusing British adverb!
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I see no-one has mentionned 'busking' yet..?
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My fastest growing business is a jazz duo. No one else, even the jazzers who can whoop me pretty severely, are playing much jazz. Opened up possibilities and I'm doing one or two jazz gigs a week. This is enough for me to get the jazz bug out. I also play bass in a few bands.
Once you can play well it's not a matter of chops but the ability to learn songs. Everyone wants to be a gunslinger, but sounding good and being able to learn a boatload of songs is what gets you work. Some pretty marginal (I mean from a studio ace perspective) work a couple gigs every Saturday and a Friday night club date, church gig Sunday and another on a weeknight. Other great players do a Saturday and that's it.
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Ouch. Bass is much more essential to jazz than guitar. You'll eat those words when you grow up. Originally Posted by SammieWammie
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whatbut really jazz bass is necessary to jazz but not an art in my opinion.
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Hmmm. I think I backed you up a few times back in the day when I was "making a living" playing jazz bass. Thanks for reminding me about one of the reasons why I decided to make jazz an avocation. Originally Posted by SammieWammie
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Better to ignore a post on a forum. Originally Posted by ah.clem
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Don't mean to offend anyone! Jazz is an art, and bass is a core part of it. Also my 1st few years of playing an instrument was bass which solidified my love for music. Bass is not to be underestimated. I'm probably going to get shot for this but quite honestly the limitations of jazz bass are, well, very limited. Simply walking for the vast majority of the time... necessary but not fun. In my experience (which isn't very much) I have never played with a great jazz bassist so while I know it's necessary to make a jazz combo, far more necessary than guitar to jazz in general it really isn't my thing. And yes thinking about it some jazz bassists are legends, and I've heard great music where it wouldn't have worked if the bassist wasn't imputing what they were yet I find it hard to find any art in my playing while I'm simply walking changes.
Feel free to suggest jazz bass I should listen to, perhaps my view will change.
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Sammie - not everybody walks or just holds down a simple groove, although that is sometimes what is called for, and sometimes that alone is true art to my ears.
When it comes to bass I'm most impressed not with amazing solos but with those who can play broken feel and really make the feel of the tune sing, despite in some ways abstracting the groove. Bill Evans trio and Brad Mehldau trios are my favorite examples of this.Last edited by JakeAcci; 11-07-2011 at 12:05 PM.
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Exploring non-traditional markets is also a way to make a living, especially if you're a jazzbo. The Senior market is the only growing market in the USA for serious music of the jazz style, although seniors are now also part of the 50s/early 60s generation, so some classic oldies go a long way. Anyway, create a brochure and a demo CD with some familiar swing/jazz tunes and Elvis-era oldies, then either get on the phone or get in the car and get in touch with every nursing home, rehab home and assisted-living facility you can reach. Make sure that the activities director gets your materials, and keep your pricing competitive as you're starting out. If you don't sing, learn how to, even just a handful of tunes per 60-minute show. With enough determination and the ability to learn from the activities directors, you can end up with 2-10 daytime shows per week, at an average of $100 per 60-90 minute show. I know a guy in my area who charges $90 a show, and does 10-15 EVERY WEEK, 40 weeks a year. That's a gross of around $40,000 annually, all in the daytime. I'm not as ambitious, but I do around 10-12 shows a month, solo, duo and group, averaging just over $100 per show, for an additional $12k a year over and above the evening work.
Apply the same approach to house concerts, library concerts, coffeehouse and bookstore work, and you'll find yourself with 6-10 gigs weekly, not including your regular Friday and Saturday mainstream club dates or functions. It's entirely possible for a good guitarist to make a living by performing, although playing 1950s bebop will not get you there. For the marginal markets I've described, you really must play a lot of tunes that people have some familiarity with.
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Red Mitchell. His bass solos on Tal Farlow's "The Swinging Guitar of Tal Farlow" are very lyrical.
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So I guess I'm full of shit for not wanting to jump on the dream crushing bandwagon? I've seen enough musicians, in all different styles, to know that the ones who complain about not being able to make a living are not able because they don't work as hard as they think they do. Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo
Not wanting to start a pissing contest, but that seemed pretty clearly aimed at me.
I wonder how many of the people that always try to discourage young musicians do it honestly, or because they are afraid of extra competition making them work harder.Last edited by Sandor; 11-07-2011 at 03:31 PM. Reason: Added comment
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Never saw this one before Jake. Three true Masters at work!!
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There's a lot of really good advice here...ultimately if you graduate with a music degree you will at least have some "credentials" for teaching...then you gig, then you teach, then you shed repeat the cycle over and over and over until you're the last one standing. I agree with the cat that said if you have to think about it maybe find somthin' else to do if it's a compulsion and you feel in your heart all the time that's your answer. The future is hard to see so if you gotta do this take care of the step where you are right now and the rest unfold in time. Beware of the negative, angry,bitter can't be done cuz it's hard, can't be done cuz I didn't do it guys. Just know that making a living out of this will take all of your effort,focus,determination etc. And realize that there is no fame involved whatsoever...just love of the music..
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To end up with a million dollars from playing jazz guitar start with 2million...But seriously, I believe, Where there's a will there's a way, Passion and the absolute necessity,obssession to live a life in jazz, and a positive attitude seem to be the necessary ingredients for success. I advise my students that absolutely HAVE to go to music school to at least graduate with a teaching degree, they come in handy when one makes it to forty...
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SammieWammie-If you can,have a look at Skip Morris's "Player to Player column in this months Just Jazz guitar mag.page 128.He discusses how top guitarist's of today make a living.I think you will find it enlightening in view of your first question.
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"A scientific expedition disembarks from its plane at the final outpost of civilization in the deepest Amazon rain forest. They immediately notice the ceaseless thrumming of native drums. As they venture further into the bush, the drums never stop, day or night, for weeks.
The lead scientist asks one of the natives about this, and the native's only reply is "Drums good. Drums never stop. Very BAD if drums stop."
The drumming continues, night and day, until one night, six weeks into the trip, when the jungle is suddenly silent. Immediately the natives run screaming from their huts, covering their ears. The scientists grab one boy and demand "What is it? The drums have stopped!"
The terror-stricken youth replies "Yes! Drums stop! VERY BAD!"
The scientists ask "Why? Why? What will happen?"
Wild-eyed, the boy responds,
" . . . BASS SOLO!!!" -
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