They are finding a solution

[Lionelsax]

Hi !

I don't know them but I heard a thing.

Someone, who is very nice and who used to play well, is losing his abilities, I think he has never been as good as he claimed when they met him but has still got some skills.
Even if his solos and themes are a torture, he is excellent in comping (great feeling on voicings and rhythmic things).
He is about to stop playing because he can't play anymore, he says he is too old, they don't think so.
So they decided to invite another player who plays vibes and piano.
The new one would play themes and solos while the buddy would play voicings and make music again.
No matter if he takes solo... Everyone takes solos...

That's a delicate situation, when he says he's bad they say he is not, they can't tell him the truth because he is nice.

Is it a durable solution ?

[DawgBone]

Hi !

I don't know them but I heard a thing.

Someone, who is very nice and who used to play well, is losing his abilities, I think he has never been as good as he claimed when they met him but has still got some skills.
Even if his solos and themes are a torture, he is excellent in comping (great feeling on voicings and rhythmic things).
He is about to stop playing because he can't play anymore, he says he is too old, they don't think so.
So they decided to invite another player who plays vibes and piano.
The new one would play themes and solos while the buddy would play voicings and make music again.
No matter if he takes solo... Everyone takes solos...

That's a delicate situation, when he says he's bad they say he is not, they can't tell him the truth because he is nice.

Is it a durable solution ?

No, not if the guy has no confidence in his abilities. You say he can comp well but that doesn't really matter if he thinks he does not. The bandstand is a bad place to set foot on if you already have self doubt before you hit the stage. It'd be one thing if he was just a kid getting started or up and coming but bad news if it should be old hat to him.

[ragman1]

he says he's bad they say he is not, they can't tell him the truth because he is nice.

This is absurd. There's no problem. They are not having to tell him he can't do it any more, he is telling them! And if they get someone else to solo and he's happy to comp then that's a very durable solution.

Unless they want to replace him completely, of course, in which case they just have to tell him and, with regret, c'est la vie.

[rpjazzguitar]

This may be a situation in which medical, psychological and neurological evaluation could be important.

[Doctor Jeff]

This is absurd. There's no problem. They are not having to tell him he can't do it any more, he is telling them! And if they get someone else to solo and he's happy to comp then that's a very durable solution.

Unless they want to replace him completely, of course, in which case they just have to tell him and, with regret, c'est la vie.

Yeah, no problem. Unless he's running for president.

This may be a situation in which medical, psychological and neurological evaluation could be important.

Agree. There may be physical reasons beyond aging for the problems playing. A medical eval is always a reasonable place to start.

[rpjazzguitar]

Agree. There may be physical reasons beyond aging for the problems playing. A medical eval is always a reasonable place to start.

The confusing part of this is that comping can be, arguably, as difficult as soloing. If he can do one, why not the other? Could be that he's comping simply or it's more familiar. Or could be psychological in some way.

But ...

Presumably, he's noticed a fall-off in his ability -- and the individual is often sensitive to subtle decline, even when it's not obvious to others.

Since there are a number of things that can contribute to cognitive problems - which can be treated - it's worth pursuing a diagnosis.

[Lionelsax]

The confusing part of this is that comping can be, arguably, as difficult as soloing. If he can do one, why not the other? Could be that he's comping simply or it's more familiar. Or could be psychological in some way.

But ...

Presumably, he's noticed a fall-off in his ability -- and the individual is often sensitive to subtle decline, even when it's not obvious to others.

Since there are a number of things that can contribute to cognitive problems - which can be treated - it's worth pursuing a diagnosis.

He wants to play fast but his lines look like patterns without relation, there is no story but in his solos his voicings are wonderful however nothing is in place, he is rushing and unable to play an understandable theme in single notes.
I think he has always been like this but now it's worst.
When he contacted them he wanted pro players and was very happy to meet them.
It's a heartache to see someone losing his abilities.
He said he lost a lot of abilities because he has played with a bad bass player for more than a year, twice a week.

[Mick-7]

He said he lost a lot of abilities because he has played with a bad bass player for more than a year, twice a week.

Nah, Mephistopheles plays the violin, not the bass.

[Lionelsax]

They believe he can still do it again !!!
He will do it again !!!

[RLetson]

I think I'm hearing a "psychological" reaction to some kind of actual neurophysical issue. Correct me if I'm misunderstanding, but it sounds like this:

1) The player in question can no longer execute linear solos--both he and his bandmates agree on this. It's possible that he never was all that good at soloing but now it's clear that he's not up to it.

2) But his bandmates find his comping/support playing more than adequate and are willing to reconfigure with the player in a comping role because he's actually good at it.

3) Nevertheless, the player thinks this is the end of playing out and thinks he's "too old."

#3 is the "psychological" part--a crisis of self-confidence as a response to recognizing a change in abilities. It's a tricky business, inserting oneself into the emotional life of a friend or colleague, but if the bandmates really value what he is capable of bringing to the band, then they ought to be as direct, truthful, supportive, and tactful as possible. "Backing player" is a perfectly respectable--in fact, an essential job in a small group. And "everybody solos" is a convention, not a law of physics. Remember Freddie Green (who could solo but chose not to).

I am old--80--and quite aware of my technical limitiations in a jazz setting. I have never had the chops or the confidence to take a solo*. I'm an accompanist, a supporting player (cue Eliot's lines from "Prufrock"), and as long as my bandmates will put up with my fifth-wheel, perpetural sitter-in role, I'll keep showing up. I think my attitude is pretty reasonable and healthy, despite occasional flareups of imposter syndrome. (In fact, I think some of my comping can be a bit better than the band's actual guitarist--but then, I grew up on swing.)

* Though when I sing, I'm improvising constantly. Something interesting is going on there.

[Lionelsax]

The pianist is wonderful, he is formally a percussionist (all types of drums, vibes and marimbas).
That's a new project, a classic jazz trio (piano, bass and drums).
A wonderful meeting, you know when you play with two people who know what polyrhythm is... It's marvellous, every "mistake" made by the double bass player is source of inspiration, exploring the idea rhythmically.
They are into Bill Evans vibes I think, a lot of interaction. Straight lines over a swing, swing over a bossa nova, a waltz over a 4/4 tune.
Great !