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11-10-2024 03:31 PM
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Yeah, I watched this the other day ... it was ... OK, I guess .. a few interesting tid-bits ..
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The big band in the intro montage should fire the conductor. That’ll get them all a little more scratch. No need for a conductor on Feeling Good.
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This came up on another forum, to which I replied, so I hope it's OK to share my thoughts here, too.
I watched "Who Killed Jazz" all the way through. I agree, a little disjointed and uneven at times, but I think that's a style that short form filmmakers seem to have adopted, it's like creating an impression rather than a logical narrative flow. Overall, to me at least, it was interesting, and a little troubling although I'm not sure why. And I'm not sure if jazz is killed. But making one's profession a jazz musician, with the exception of an elite few? I really don't know. The documentary is treading in those waters, perhaps tentatively.
I noticed it evoked Zappa's pithy quote, about jazz not being dead but smelling funny, and that reminded me of when I first came to Japan years ago. I thought about that quote when I joined a vibrant jazz jam session scene with several venues and dozens of players, most with day jobs and many that are quite accomplished players. It seems to be a reverent devotion to the music, rather than expecting jazz to become one's sole vocation. And I thought to myself, "Jazz is alive and well, Zappa-san, but it moved to Japan and smells like coffee."
This is in reference to Japan's "jazz kissaten" tradition (small independent coffee shops with high end audio systems and large jazz on vinyl collections) as listening spaces throughout the country. At one time there were hundreds, but the numbers have dwindled in recent decades, losing ground to more individualized listening choices (CDs, streaming, etc.). Some kissaten went under, but others reconfigured as "live houses" (independent performance spaces). Two of the venues I jam at have the remnants of kissatens, but now mostly host live performances of local jazz combos, and an occasional touring act, as well as holding regular jam sessions.
This soon led me to recall attending a clinic with a North American jazz guitarist who was touring Japan, and taking a couple of lessons with him. He seemed possessive of live performance, perhaps rightfully so, and a bit incensed that "amateur" musicians (in the somewhat more derogatory sense of the word) being used by live venues to provide cheap entertainment at the expense of hiring career musicians.
I don't know where I sit on that fence, or which way I'm leaning. On the one hand, for jazz to be "alive" I think it needs both players and listeners, those who appreciate the music from both sides of the bandstand. Appreciating jazz, live or recorded, is something that might even seem mysterious or mystical to those steeped in pop or rock music. If that is so, then there might need to be patience on the part of players to perhaps demystify the tradition. Jam sessions, at least in my limited experience, seem to be a place to do that, but that also depends on the cultural climate, how competitive or individualistic things are, for example.
This further evoked me an episode when visited New Orleans just before corona, where I spent some time with a saxophone friend who was studying there. We walked around the French quarter and other areas and I was surprised that most of the music I heard coming out of the live venues that lined the streets was hip-hop and classic / southern rock. I reflected on New Orleans of the 1980s, when I spent some time there, being more jazz focused. But on the recent visit we really had to scour the city to find some live jazz. Slim evidence, I know, but part of the puzzle I am trying to piece together.
Now, possibly the most controversial part of this, with which I am struggling now, might actually be seeing jazz as art, to be put on a stage and revered almost like a classical music, or keeping it in small clubs where it was born, as more or less what the socio-musicologist Charles Keil referred to as "people's music," overlaid by what Stanley Crouch (in Ken Burns' Jazz documentary series) refers to as "Black improvisational music."
On the latter point, and back to the guitarist whose clinic I attended here in Japan (and to wrap up this already verbose post), he began the clinic by asking, "What is jazz?" Most participants said "Improvisation." But I knew it had to be more than that, being quite familiar with a host of other musics (e.g. Middle Eastern and South Asian) that are also improvisation based. The guitarist suggested that jazz was "history" and "repertoire," with which I for the most part agreed. But if so, then who is to keep that history and repertoire alive? Should it be left to career musicians? Or is there room for "amateurs" (in the sense intended by Andy Merrifield in "The Amateur: The Pleasures of Doing What You Love"), for example at jam sessions and the like, to participate in helping to insure that jazz remains alive and vibrant for everyone?
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That career musician sounds like he’s full of himself.
Without those amateurs he’d have nobody to play to.
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"Jazz isn't dead, it just sm---
You know what, this argument is just tired.
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Jazz means different things to different people. Like classical music, it lives in the shadows of modern pop music, but it is not dead. I have spent the last 20 years making a modest living by playing it.
Jazz, like America itself, is a melting pot. It was created by people of different races and backgrounds (the contribution of Black Americans to Jazz has been mighty, but without the contribution of the Jewish songwriters of Tin Pan Alley, I do not think jazz would have happened). It has spread to the whole world and IMO, when America itself is gone (all Nations perish eventually), Jazz will survive in some corner of the universe so long as there are musicians with the chops to play it.
Jazz is eternal.
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"Funny" thing is that jazz isn't dead, but Frank Zappa is. And he probably smells "funny" at this point too.
Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
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brutal! Originally Posted by jazzshrink
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I've never been a Zappa fan. Not his music or his personality. Call him a genius if you want to (he was very intelligent at least), but it's hilarious (and hypocritical) that Zappa- who basically proclaimed himself the KING of improvisation- would condescend to jazz -one of THE improvisational music forms. But Zappa was also a "all press [even bad] is good good press" guy. After hearing recently how he treated and paid his band members over the years, he was ass.
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What's with the clickbait-y thumbnail, showing a beautiful woman in a white dress reclining in a contorted position with her hand at her crotch? Are they suggesting porn killed jazz?
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In the early days of jazz, it was often played in brothels. Originally Posted by Cunamara
Jazz can be sexy.
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I don't know but jazz is the music most played in the world by few people and appreciated by less. Originally Posted by Stringswinger
Maybe there are more jazz musicians than jazz lovers.
Jazz musicians have got haters who are also other jazz musicians while jazz lovers don't get what's happening but they love it, while those who understand definitely hate it because they could play what they play but they don't because instead of doing better they would do the same or worst.
That was long !
Jazz is not dead !
If you're still there, thank you.
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When jazz is mentioned on the Gear Page, somebody will quote Zappa, another will post the Spinal Tap scene, a third will post the scene from The Office (American version). It is all very tiresome, but meaningless. It gets in the way of real discussion. Zappa made a cheap comment that we can ignore.
I found the documentary to be an insight into the jazz scene of Denver, Colorado, which included some thoughts about the future of the genre. For many, jazz is an entertainment that accompanies eating and drinking. For some it is an event that takes place in arts centres, where the seats are comfortable and the bathrooms are clean. For most it is of no interest.
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