For those who went to music school, was it worth it?

[Stringswinger]

I try to avoid things regarding the middle east. It's not my holy land but my favorite DJ is a Palestinian named Sama. Access to water and women's rights.
She'd also like to play gigs without getting arrested.

It was Palestinians who arrested Sama. It seems that Islam and women's rights ( not to mention Gay rights) are mutually exclusive. Perhaps one day American and European liberals will figure this out?

[Stevebol]

It was Palestinians who arrested Sama. It seems that Islam and women's rights ( not to mention Gay rights) are mutually exclusive. Perhaps one day American and European liberals will figure this out?

I know. Lyrics are of little consequence in what she spins. I say musicians have rights. I don't care who she is. I don't listen to her because of her political views if she has any.
More musicians should let the music do the talking.

[James W]

It was Palestinians who arrested Sama. It seems that Islam and women's rights ( not to mention Gay rights) are mutually exclusive. Perhaps one day American and European liberals will figure this out?

Depends what kind of Islam. If it's Wahhabism, the kind of Islam found in places such as Saudi Arabia which those American and European liberals and conservatives are very friendly with, then yes.

I lack the inclination to rebut your Islamophobia comprehensively, but suffice to say, it has been the case that the West's intervention in the Middle East, the history of divide and conquer, colonialism, overthrowing democratically elected governments such as in Iran, sending arms to the Mujahideen (yes, the same kind of people who would perpetrate America's 9/11) and so on and so forth - that is, actively suppressing more humane and moderate forms of government in Islamic countries, it is hardly surprising that the reactionary forms of Islam prevail in many of those countries now, is it? Also, it was the far-right in Israel who actively promoted and funded Hamas (as Bop Head already pointed out).

Anyway, I know and have known British Muslims, male and female, who would take umbrage at your comments.

[Stevebol]

It was Palestinians who arrested Sama. It seems that Islam and women's rights ( not to mention Gay rights) are mutually exclusive. Perhaps one day American and European liberals will figure this out?

Musicians are like service workers. We provide a service. Social workers too. I have no interest in Kid Rock or Taylor Swift. P Diddy is in no position to tell me to-vote or die.
He had to be a bad boy and now he's in trouble but he's innocent until proven guilty.

[RJVB]

Perhaps one day American and European liberals will figure this out?

I'd already be happy if feminists figured that out, but no, most will tell you that negating your femininity by wearing a veil is something that can be an act of free will and should be respected as such...

(Re liberals: one of the parties in the left-wing coalition that got the most votes in the last elections here call themselves "islamo-gauchiste". I can't fathom that this is even possible in a secular country...)

And I agree it's not a genocide what's going on, no matter how much it looks like one or how badly you think about it for the rest. hamas don't claim to be a separate people and I don't think there's any indication that all Palestinians are being hunted down everywhere within easy reach outside of Gaza. But it's who they poked the bear, and it's they who hide behind civilian shields (not that this is so different in Israël itself I suppose).

I'd worry about my communication devices nowadays if I were in the pro-palestinian camp btw

[Stevebol]

I'd already be happy if feminists figured that out, but no, most will tell you that negating your femininity by wearing a veil is something that can be an act of free will and should be respected as such...

(Re liberals: one of the parties in the left-wing coalition that got the most votes in the last elections here call themselves "islamo-gauchiste". I can't fathom that this is even possible in a secular country...)

And I agree it's not a genocide what's going on, no matter how much it looks like one or how badly you think about it for the rest. hamas don't claim to be a separate people and I don't think there's any indication that all Palestinians are being hunted down everywhere within easy reach outside of Gaza. But it's who they poked the bear, and it's they who hide behind civilian shields (not that this is so different in Israël itself I suppose).

I'd worry about my communication devices nowadays if I were in the pro-palestinian camp btw

Would people calling it genocide call Mexican cartels terrorists?

[Stevebol]

Depends what kind of Islam. If it's Wahhabism, the kind of Islam found in places such as Saudi Arabia which those American and European liberals and conservatives are very friendly with, then yes.

I lack the inclination to rebut your Islamophobia comprehensively, but suffice to say, it has been the case that the West's intervention in the Middle East, the history of divide and conquer, colonialism, overthrowing democratically elected governments such as in Iran, sending arms to the Mujahideen (yes, the same kind of people who would perpetrate America's 9/11) and so on and so forth - that is, actively suppressing more humane and moderate forms of government in Islamic countries, it is hardly surprising that the reactionary forms of Islam prevail in many of those countries now, is it? Also, it was the far-right in Israel who actively promoted and funded Hamas (as Bop Head already pointed out).

Anyway, I know and have known British Muslims, male and female, who would take umbrage at your comments.

We're paying for it now with Mexican cartels. I live in cartel country. They're more powerful and influencial than most people think. They're demonic and demon's don't deserve human rights.

[Mick-7]

I'd already be happy if feminists figured that out, but no, most will tell you that negating your femininity by wearing a veil is something that can be an act of free will and should be respected as such...

(Re liberals: one of the parties in the left-wing coalition that got the most votes in the last elections here call themselves "islamo-gauchiste". I can't fathom that this is even possible in a secular country...)

And I agree it's not a genocide what's going on, no matter how much it looks like one or how badly you think about it for the rest. hamas don't claim to be a separate people and I don't think there's any indication that all Palestinians are being hunted down everywhere within easy reach outside of Gaza. But it's who they poked the bear, and it's they who hide behind civilian shields (not that this is so different in Israël itself I suppose).

I'd worry about my communication devices nowadays if I were in the pro-palestinian camp btw

My inclination was not to respond to this topic but your level of ignorance is so profound that I felt I must say something.....

Israel's war crimes are well documented (including breaking virtually all the Geneva Convention Protocol laws).

However, you obviously don't know what constitutes a war crime, so here's a brief annotated U.S. congressional primer on the subject: crsreports.congress.gov

A general summation: "Under international humanitarian law, all sides in an armed conflict must distinguish between military targets and civilians and civilian structures, and direct attacks only at the former. Deliberate attacks on civilians or civilian objects – such as homes, medical facilities, schools, governmental buildings – that are not being used for military purposes are prohibited and are war crimes. Indiscriminate and disproportionate attacks (where the likely number of civilian casualties or damage to civilian property outweighs the anticipated military advantage to be gained) are also prohibited."

And an analysis of Israeli's military actions in Gaza: Israel and the Occupied Palestinian Territory - Global Centre for the Responsibility to Protect

[Litterick]

I lack the inclination to rebut your Islamophobia comprehensively, but suffice to say, it has been the case that the West's intervention in the Middle East, the history of divide and conquer, colonialism....

Accusing someone of having a phobia and declining to rebut arguments are crude tactics, both intellectually weak and morally nasty. This is not Twitter: if you have an argument, make it.

Blaming everything on the West is bad history. Islam has enjoyed centuries of political and territorial power. Its attitudes towards women and homosexuals are written in the manual.

[Stringswinger]

I thought about doing another pro-Israel response in this thread but I decided instead to listen to a Wes Montgomery record, as it is a better use of my time.

Have fun guys.

[bediles]

Let's start another music school thread

[James W]

Accusing someone of having a phobia and declining to rebut arguments are crude tactics, both intellectually weak and morally nasty. This is not Twitter: if you have an argument, make it.

Blaming everything on the West is bad history. Islam has enjoyed centuries of political and territorial power. Its attitudes towards women and homosexuals are written in the manual.

I made my argument - and I notice you have failed to rebut any of the points I made, casually dismissing it as 'bad history'. So - tell me why was what I said bad history?

By written in the manual I assume you mean the Koran? But there is plenty of unpleasant stuff in the Bible too.

As for being intellectually weak and morally nasty, these are just ad hominems.

[Bobby Timmons]

Let's start another music school thread

RIP

Getting kind of tired of this forum. If I want actual productive and nice discussion I can just post on Open Studio.

[RJVB]

My inclination was not to respond to this topic but your level of ignorance is so profound that I felt I must say something.....

You should have kept to your initial inclination instead of showing (yet again, IIRC) that you can't read or read what you want to read.

Or maybe you think that all war crimes are genocide.

In the meantime I don't care a rat's arse what US congress thinks of this or that. The US don't have lessons to teach on the subject.

[Freddels]

People underestimate the standard of playing in military bands.

Most of the players in the military bands already have degrees before they enter the bands.

I have several friends I went to North Texas with who were in the top AF and Army bands.

[JazzPadd]

Came again, hoping things had cooled, to post about my music school experience, but here we go again! There are places to go to vent and argue. I don’t feel like reading through that just to add to the original conversation.

[Bop Head]

Came again, hoping things had cooled, to post about my music school experience, but here we go again! There are places to go to vent and argue. I don’t feel like reading through that just to add to the original conversation.

I will start a dedicated Israel-Palestine thread today in order not to annoy those here not interested in history happening right in front of their eyes.

But one last thing: I do not know if you have seen the movies made by the the allied winners of WWII of Germans that were forced to visit the concentration camps of e.g. Dachau or Buchenwald to witness the crimes that had been committed by their people, by their country (my country). If you see those movies you will see the expression of horror and shock in their eyes as they realize what they have been complicit in by ignoring things and closing their eyes. There are not many left today of those you could ask how it feels to wake up one day and you realize you have been on the totally wrong side of history. But maybe I am shaking your little worlds more than you can stand.

The lessons that history teaches are more important than the lessons in music schools IMO. I live in a country that is drifting into fascism again with huge successes for a party with people saying things like "The Shoa was only a fly shit in history". And you live in a country that has been an important ally of the German Nazis. Israel has been taken over by right-winged extremists decades ago.

But OK, nothing to see here, I leave you alone in this thread, you can all go and polish your dear archtops now without further annoyance from my side.

Never again is for anyone. Shalom aleichem, Salam aleikum. PEACE!




PS: My music school was a life full of doubt and thoughtfullness that taught me how to play the blues ...

[Stevebol]

My parents were classical pianists and they said music school would ruin me. I dabbled in a class or two and hated it.
I love dives. They're my people.

[Stevebol]

I have a PhD from St. Tropez University in Osaka. I'm a labor relations consultant.
On a personal note, I'm in the world's worst techno band.

[Stevebol]

My parents said college would ruin me. I'll never be respected in academia or the music business no matter how much experience I have.
They had strong feelings about it.

[princeplanet]

I have a PhD from St. Tropez University in Osaka. I'm a labor relations consultant.
On a personal note, I'm in the world's worst techno band.

You need a band to play techno?

[Stevebol]

You need a band to play techno?

Shitty bands are better than no bands.

[Bop Head]

You need a band to play techno?

Why actually not?

[DawgBone]

I went for a couple years. No guitar program though. It was ok but not really worth it for someone like me. Truthfully I had zero bad experiences with the music program people or students. A couple seniors were jerks that didn't really phase me. It wasn't a competitive environment. It was a bunch of kids going to school to teach music. Wouldn't go to school again, ever.

[JazzerEU]

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