Short Scale Guitars

**BertScrogshaw** · 03-16-2016, 07:34 AM

Anyone here using short scale guitars (between 22"-24")?

I'm trying to play some basic jazz on an electro acoustic with a 25.5" scale which is way too big for me, and a 24.75" scale les paul style electric....which is still uncomfortable!

People always comment how unfeasibly small my hands are!

Now, after a little research, I have come to realise that not all guitars are the same length and that shorter ones need not necessarily to be specially made.

**rabbit** · 03-16-2016, 08:16 AM

Hello BertScrogshaw,

I like to say I enjoy my guitars, so I don't have to try to defend any claim that
I'm actually playing music on them. That said, I've accumulated a Taylor 'Baby' (22-3/4")-
a 24" parlor and a 24" Fender Pawn Shop Mustang. Damn, I'm a lucky guy!

My hands are unremarkable in size, but "afflicted." Fear not the unusual guitar
that accommodates you in some special way.

Here's a thread that's similar but different that you might find encouraging:

Wanted: Good Guitars for Women (and folks with small hands)

**339 in june** · 03-16-2016, 09:05 AM

If you're talking about scale length (and not neck width) you may also consider Gibson Byrdland, Gibson ES-140, ...

**SamBooka** · 03-16-2016, 09:14 AM

For a very short period I had a Vintage Modified Jaguar that I got cheap and flipped .. but while I had it I put 13s on it (shorter scales with heaviers strings feel similar to longer scales with lighter strings).

Took a lot of jiggering to the tone circuit to get something closer to what I like but not bad. If I had to do it again I would grab a VM jazzmaster.

These are relatively affordable guitars and easy to find.. (and compared to most jazz guitar they literally 1/10 the price ) and the quality is pretty good..

EDIT: I also still have Fender Musicmaster with a 22.5 scale but that is just too cramped on the FB for me..

**targuit** · 03-16-2016, 09:28 AM

All my life I have played essentially standard scale acoustic, classical, and electric guitars. But I also just like shorter scale instruments. It reminds me of playing a violin in a sense. The intervals on the fret board are large enough above the twelfth fret position to play articulately and certain stretches become more comfortable. I think my ideal scale length would be around 630 or 620 mm. My ideal guitar would be a nylon string jazz archtop with those dimensions.

I presume what you sacrifice is in the realms of volume, tone, and resonance especially acoustically. But life is a trade off sometimes and the fluidity and agility gained on the fret board plus the comfort makes it worth it to me. I think...

I've never played a Byrdland, so practical experience of a short scale archtop for me is lacking.

**medblues** · 03-16-2016, 11:15 AM

You don't need to change your guitar if you experiment with string gauges, tuning down and capoing at the second or third fret. That will shorten your scale significantly. Instead of a new guitar you will only spend money on a very good capo and a few sets of strings. Only thing you lose is the highest few pitches in the note range.

But if you have the money, it is fun to have a new different guitar :-)

destinytot · 03-16-2016, 12:55 PM

Now that I have an Ibanez hollow body (AG95), I find that it's great for practising/noodling. I prefer a longer scale for playing, but I find the slightly shorter scale a huge help in getting out of my comfort zone - stretches and 'leaps'. Once I'm used to it, it all transfers. Actually, I'd like a Tele.

**BertScrogshaw** · 03-16-2016, 01:14 PM

Originally Posted by medblues

You don't need to change your guitar if you experiment with string gauges, tuning down and capoing at the second or third fret. That will shorten your scale significantly. Instead of a new guitar you will only spend money on a very good capo and a few sets of strings. Only thing you lose is the highest few pitches in the note range.

But if you have the money, it is fun to have a new different guitar :-)

I've tried playing with a capo on second fret of my 25.5 acoustic and love the difference that it makes. Less pain in left hand. Just need to measure the capo'd scale length to see what it is.

**medblues** · 03-16-2016, 02:32 PM

Originally Posted by BertScrogshaw

I've tried playing with a capo on second fret of my 25.5 acoustic and love the difference that it makes. Less pain in left hand. Just need to measure the capo'd scale length to see what it is.

You can tune down and use thinner strings both of which will increase your comfort with some compromise on tone which may or may not be compensated by turning up the volume. For example, Jim Hall played with thinner strings and turned the amp all the way up emphasizing pick dynamics.

**neatomic** · 03-16-2016, 04:47 PM

fender jaguar 24" scale...good enough for joe

cheers

**BertScrogshaw** · 03-22-2016, 12:30 PM

A couple of nice guitars there. With the perfect scale length.

TH · 03-22-2016, 12:48 PM

I've been working with short scales lately. For now I only play the first five notes of any given scale. And while this does present melodic challenges, I find my existing guitar seems to handle that just fine. I don't see this as a problem. Maybe I'm not using the lower frets enough?

David

**Nate Miller** · 03-22-2016, 12:53 PM

they make 3/4 scale solid body guitars for kids. I know the Squire (strat knockoff) 3/4 scale model is at 22.75". My cousin got one for his son last year.

My first guitar when I was 5 was also a 3/4 scale job from the Sears catalogue (I think that's where pop got it )

so look for 3/4 scale guitars and you'll find axes 22"-24"

**BigDaddyLoveHandles** · 03-22-2016, 01:08 PM

I see kids and women with small hands playing classical guitars with 650-660mm scale length (25.6-26in) and a 2" nut.

How is your left hand placement? have you tried more of a classical positioning: thumb in middle of the back of the neck, neck tilted upwards?

**BertScrogshaw** · 03-27-2016, 06:50 AM

Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles

I see kids and women with small hands playing classical guitars with 650-660mm scale length (25.6-26in) and a 2" nut.

How is your left hand placement? have you tried more of a classical positioning: thumb in middle of the back of the neck, neck tilted upwards?

I've altered the guitar positioning....from sitting hunched over the guitar with the neck almost parallel with the floor to sitting more upright with the guitars neck pointing up towards my left shoulder at approx 30 degrees. And it's easier to fret notes...with less wrist pain! Also my fretting thumb position kinda automatically changes from thumb up when fretting notes that are compact/close together, to thumb parallel to the neck (pointing towards the nut) when I play with a larger span. Another eureka moment for me I think. That's 2 in a week!!! Thanks for the advice.

**guitarbard** · 03-30-2016, 10:57 PM

There seems to be a hole in-between the 24.5(24.75) and the 22.75 I saw you mention. A 23.25 or the sort would be nice, but I don't know who makes it. The old tenor banjos of the later period were over 23 inches.

**BertScrogshaw** · 04-01-2016, 07:04 AM

I got sick of looking for one so I've just sawn an inch and a quarter off the end of my current guitars fretboard....and glued a new nut and old headstock/tuners onto the end of it.

**339 in june** · 04-01-2016, 10:26 AM

Originally Posted by BertScrogshaw

I got sick of looking for one so I've just sawn an inch and a quarter off the end of my current guitars fretboard....and glued a new nut and old headstock/tuners onto the end of it.

Good idea !
I made a similar operation on my L5 CES when I wanted to have it turned into a thinline. Amazing what can be done with a good bandsaw !

**guitarbard** · 04-01-2016, 01:30 PM

Bert, you ARE kidding, no? Or you really know your woodworking skills,,,,,

**BertScrogshaw** · 04-01-2016, 03:56 PM

Originally Posted by guitarbard

Bert, you ARE kidding, no? Or you really know your woodworking skills,,,,,

It's worked out better than I expected. Had to reset the intonation as the 12th fret is now the 13th fret. I reused the original nut but I might replace with a slightly longer one at a later date....it probably needs to be a couple of millimetres longer to allow for the slightly wider (new) first fret.

**neatomic** · 04-01-2016, 04:35 PM

shades of tal farlow!

Over the years, Tal Farlow's name has become associated with a number of experimental ideas and innovations, both in instrumental technique and design. In the early days with Red Norvo, he had the fingerboard on his guitar shortened by the distance of the first fret.

tal-
"The result was the same as tuning down the strings by a semitone and using a capo at the first fret. With less tension in the strings, the sound was more mellow and softer; it also allowed me to cover a larger span of the fingerboard.

cheers

**guitarbard** · 04-01-2016, 04:37 PM

Did he do something like that? I know his signature Gibsons did end up being produced with a shorter scale,,,,,

**73Fender** · 04-07-2019, 08:58 AM

Hello,

I've been playing for many years but as I have aged my finger tips are wider than they used to be. All of my hollow body and semi-hollows are "Gibson scale".

Really not much of a problem for playing leads in the blues/rock ballpark but lately I have been working on chord melody techniques and when in the upper reaches of the neck, say past the 8th fret or so it is a challenge for me.

Coincidentally there is a nice long scale (25.5") arch top for sale locally that I have been trying to resist even going to see. My question is in general, how much of a difference does that extra 3/4" I believe matter?

I've tried some of this stuff on a Tele or Strat and the extra length seems to help some. Just thought I'd ask here as well. You guys are so knowledgeable. Thanks in advance.

**marcwhy** · 04-07-2019, 09:28 AM

Hey 73, great question!
I would think that nut width/fingerboard spacing may be more important than scale length for what you're describing. Have you experimented with wider necks?

**sgosnell** · 04-07-2019, 10:03 AM

People with fat fingers play mandolins without problems. I don't believe the scale makes much difference with single-note playing, unless it gets too long. The difference between 24.75" and 25.5" is only .75" total, and the distance between frets is very small. I don't notice any difference when switching between them. Others might.