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Heya,
I have a question about Just Friends. In the RB you have the following progression if the tune is in G:
Cmaj7 - Cmin7 - F7 - Gmaj7 - Bbm7 - Eb7 - Am7 - D7 - Gmaj7 ....
So when we analyze this we get:
IV - ivminor7 - bVII7 - I - biiim7 - bVI7 - iim7 - V7 - I
So ivm7 and bVII7 is pretty standard modal interchange stuff from the parallel minor right, the so called backdoor pattern. However what about the biiim7 bVI7?
I consider it the tritone sub for A7. So if we simplify the changes and consider the ii and V the same (since the ii is basically a suspended V) we get the following:
Cmaj7 - Cmin7 - F7 - Gmaj7 - A7 - D7 - GMaj7
This makes sense right? The A7 is just a V\V. And what we do is we use the tritone sub:
Gmaj7 - Eb7 - D7 - GMaj7
Then add the related ii chords:
Gmaj7 - Bbm7 - Eb7 - Am7 - D7 - GMaj7
Now my questions:
1. Is this the same way you guys think about this? Or am I overlooking something?
2. In some versions I see they play a Bbdim7 for Bbm7 | Eb7. But a Bbdim7 is the same as a rootless A7b9 right?
Thanks in advance!
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03-04-2019 05:02 PM
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In G, Eb7 Gb7 A7 and c7 come from the biii dim chord who’s function is to pull toward either the ii or the I in this casee it’s pulling to the ii
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Oh, who cares, just play it!
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Harmonic analysis using the book may fall short because the representation of the harmony uses simple chords; more simple than the ones typically used when playing the tune; so you can sort of use the book's chords' roots and types to figure a fundamental schematic of the progression, but many of the harmonies that characterize the song, and many harmonic interpretations used in performance, are mostly missing.
For example:
- with additional chords you can descend chromatically from the C to the A, which is a path to many harmonic insights
- notice there are places where the same chord can work over adjacent chord changes (what does that mean and how might you do something with that?)
- hear how the 7b5 rooted on the 6th of a minor chord foreshadows resolution to its four
Here are some additional chords you might play with to reveal more harmonic substance:
Cmaj7 try C6sus2 or C69
Cm7 try A79b5
F7 try Cm6 or A79b5 (A79b5 works on both Cm7 and F7)
Gmaj7 try Bm7
Bbm7 try G7b5
Eb(7) try Bbm6 or G7b5
Am7
D7 try D9
Bm7
Em7 try E7sus(2or4)
A7 try A13/G
Am7 try D9sus4 or D11
D7 try D9sus4 or D11 (D11 works on both Am7 and D7)
Db(7) try Db(7#11sus2) or Db(79b5)
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Love this tune, btw!
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I've just been playing with this tune and re-learning the Jimmy Raney solo over the changes from the Aebersold Vol. 20 book. Raney does really interesting things with the tune, including making it basically a 64 bar statement. You don't feel the "here's the second chorus" transition. It has some really quick sections, then some sections with long rests and rhythmic phrasing that is difficult for me to get. On the clip below I think somewhere about 2/3s the way through I get off by half a beat, not sure... it's s slippery solo in the second chorus.
Some good ideas here, though.
I play the head before the solo.
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Originally Posted by pauln
A9b5 consists of the following notes:
A C# Eb G B
Over a Cmin7 that are the following intervals: 6 b2 b3 5 and 7.
Now considering that the ivminor chord and its related bVII7 are often seen as coming from the melodic minor scale on the root of the iv chord (this case c mel minor) this makes sense. Since the iv minor is then a ivmin6 or a ivminmaj7. However what about the C# the b2? Is this just voice leading to the 5 of G, the D?
You do the same with the Bbm7 and Eb7 correct?
Thanks!
And great playing lawson-stone! Just Friends is one of my favorite standards! Beautiful melody!
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A79b5
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Originally Posted by ragman1
As in the Cmadd9 x 15 13 12 15 x to A7b5 x 12 13 12 14 x kind of sound...
It changes the Cm7 to F9 resolution from one step to two; the Cmadd9 is "pre-loaded" with part of it but not enough to fully resolve, but followed by the A7b5 the resolution completes.
This is an artifact of how I play... I play solo lines as if there are more chords between the main ones of the progression, like passing chords, or even passing chords between passing chords; typically I don't play these as chords but they are the chords you would attribute if you took the solo lines apart to find their source harmonies. Since this thread is about harmonic analysis, I did that reverse engineering exercise to provide some additional chords to examine.
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Originally Posted by Lark
Or am I overlooking something?
That should do it :-)
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Originally Posted by pauln
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In G, Eb7 Gb7 A7 and c7 come from the biii dim chord who’s function is to pull toward either the ii or the I in this casee it’s pulling to the ii
this minor realtion thing and dim chord behind is one the most beautiful thing in his theory.
And actually I used these dominants chords as relative before but he really puts it so nicely together.
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Originally Posted by Jonah
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Originally Posted by ragman1
With over two octaves under my hand, how I would allocate and assign a note's place name within a chord (which I never do because I play exclusively by ear, but if I did...) would depend on whether the note is positioned within the "chord tone" octave or within the "extension" octave. However, that relative placement seems dependent on the assignment of the octaves - the lower octave might be the chord tone octave with an extension octave above it, or the upper octave might stand alone as the chord tone octave without an extension octave above it (but perhaps a note from the lower octave below serving as a non-tonic bottom?).
It all seems kind of fluid depending on my intention (which strings I sound). Sometimes I emphasize the lower part of that chord; other times I "ghost" the bottom and emphasize the top so that it might be written more like A9#11/G.
If I play the bottom A and 7th in the lower octave, that might tend to make the upper octave sound like the extension octave, but if I play the same thing without the bottom A in the context of intending that 7th to be a non-tonic bottom, what of the notes in the octave above it? Do 9th and #11 become sus2 and b5 ?
Does the 6th of A6 played like this: x 12 11 11 10 x become the 13th of A13/G when played like this: x 10 11 11 10 x ?
Music already has the peculiar combination of the same identical thing taking multiple names, multiple different things taking the same name, and a lot of important things without names at all. I just always seek to hear and grasp the musical intention apart from the symbolic labeling.
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I wrote A79b5 as my name for (5 x 5 6 6 x ); what you probably call A9#11...?
There is no 9 or #11 in that chord. Why are you inventing your own names? You're going to confuse people and yourself.
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Originally Posted by ragman1
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er...what was the thread about???
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Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo
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Originally Posted by pauln
But you must have got the chords from somewhere even if you don't think about the names while playing. Neither do I, names are the last thing on my mind!
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Originally Posted by ragman1
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