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Originally Posted by WillMbCdn5
Sorry if I am slow, but is the daily practice like this:
Go through each section that has "exercise in it", then play the exercise relevant to the key you chose?
So for chapter 1, for example, you go through these, then you do the same for chapter 2, 3 and 5?
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09-22-2018 08:43 AM
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How about mickey baker's complete course in jazz guitar?
@fep, perhaps we should do a study group for this book? Look at the following amazon review:
I'm returning to jazz guitar study after nearly 20 years away. When I was learning, in a college focused on jazz, this was standard fare. I learned on this book. The first part of the book is focused on chord study. There are tons of great jazz chords and basic, simple, progressions to learn and apply those chords. The reader is learning how to substitute jazz chords in a very simple and repetitive way. The second part of the book is focused on scales, various runs and riffs and soloing.
There is no tablature, and I think that is best. It is in every guitarists best interest to learn how to read music. it's very easy and will only help the studying guitarist advance in the long run.
This is not an appropriate book for a complete beginner. As a guitarist who had been playing for over 10 years, but with no jazz experience, this book was challenging. 20 years later, with a rusty music degree, it's keeping me on my toes. Not impossible, and a great motivator. I'm feeling great about reinforcing my core knowledge and technique as well as refreshing forgotten ones.
If you complete this and the 2nd Baker book, you're well on your way to being able to hold your own in a jazz setting, provided you're also listening to jazz and playing along to records and with other musicians.
I feel this would be a great folllow-up to the Berklee Modern Method for Guitar books.
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Joe Pass Guitar Chords: Amazon.com: Joe Pass Guitar Chords: Learn the Sound of Modern Chords & Chord Progressions (0884990131056): Joe Pass: Books . Do as Joe says: practise in all keys.
And
Amazon.com: The Elements of Style, Fourth Edition (9780205309023): William Strunk Jr., E. B. White, Test Editor, Roger Angell: Books .
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It has certainly been a journey ... beginning with Chapter 18 in Gibson's Learn & Master Guitar, which introduced jazz chords. Since that point I've worked through Easy Jazz Guitar: voicings and comping by Mike Diliddo; and Jazz Chords by Don Latarski.
In spite of all that, I was frustrated with my ability to remember the chord shapes. I was about to dive into Mickey Baker's Jazz Guitar Volume 1, but instead, I sought out a professional jazz guitarist / teacher. He had me learn by constructing the chords using the intervals. To memorize them, he had me write progressions for standards, like Autumn Leaves, ATTYA, Round Midnight, Misty ... with one chord per beat, four chords per measure. The upper structures were key to create voice leading that mimicked the vocals I heard in my head. He had me do this for chords with roots on the sixth and fifth strings. This worked ... it's not so much the shape I think about now, it's the chord name and its alterations. With that under my fingers, he and I are back to working on soloing.
To keep the chord vocabulary growing, I've begun working on Randy Vincent's Three Note Voicings and Beyond. I'm taking the time to really work through this and so far, it's been very good. Randy includes written instruction with the exercises. It's almost as though he is sitting in the room with you.
Back to the woodshed!
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Originally Posted by 3rdwaverider
Once you start seeing the similarities and patterns it doesn't take as long as you initially fear it might, and I found that it also stopped me relying on scale shapes and patterns for single note playing. Instead I just see the intervals now.
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Here's a method I like. YMMV
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So znerken... almost all chord approaches, learning physical chords on guitar... are really just a process to learning how your fretboard works.... a 12 fret repeating pattern.
Eventually,(or not), I say or not because most guitarist don't really learn how their instrument works or how to comp.
There are different styles.... but for the most part.... you don't need that many chords.... what will serve you better is lots of lead lines... little melodic figures that can be voiced
X X X X X 11...Eb
X X X X X 8 ....C
X X X X 9 X ....Ab
X X X X 7 X ....F#
X X X X 8 X ....G
could become . (you could add roots)
X X 8 9 9 11... C7b13 #9
X X 8 9 9 8 .... Gb7#11
X X 8 9 9 X .... C7b13
X X 5 7 7 X .... E-9
X X 6 8 8 X .... F-9
or... play C13 chord first.. blues feel
8 X 8 9 10 10.... C13 3 beats
X X 8 9 9 11... Gb13
X X 8 9 9 8 ... Gb9#11
X 9 9 9 9 X .... Gb9sus
X 7 8 8 7 X .... Gb13
X 8 8 8 8 X .... F9sus
X 6 7 8 8 X .....F9
The point is you eventually learn that voicings.... the filler notes, the grip... what ever you want to call the voicings... are just notes below a lead line that have harmonic implications..... One voicing can be almost any chord.
Chords can have many different implications... different names, depending on how you choose to use that voicing.
You get this.... chords don't have fixed labels.... A-7 can be any chord. just change the root.
What takes time is to learn is how to use different voicings to create chord patterns... and part of learning this is to learn and develop leadlines.... Melodic lines on top of those voicings....
There are many approaches of how to learn chords, voicings, grips... what ever you choose or your teacher chooses to learn the fretboard....to be able to play any chord anywhere on the neck with any note on top...... NOT just basic CHORD TONES
Start with All Major scale diatonic chords.... then melodic minor... harmonic minor and Major.... I personally don't like the BH approach.... maybe more of an effect, like diminished, whole tone and other symmetrical organizations. But is organized like Martino's approach etc... They are not the norm... not a good basic reference to start with..... cool relationship and have a sound etc... but personally become mud... especially on guitar, beyond solo wk.
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Originally Posted by Reg
I totally agree on this, but I still would like to have a clear approach on how to practice this. I have spent a lot of time on arpeggios lately, and they certainly increase fretboard knowledge!
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Originally Posted by znerken
Comping is a different subject, You use fretboard knowledge and technique to comp.
You need an organized approach on how to organize the fretboard.... this means anything and anywhere you play on the neck... is a reflection of how you physically see, hear, play etc...the guitar. Getting even more detailed.... You have a reference system where that 12 fret repeating organization always has a fingering organization reference.
Simple version.... you hear Cmaj9, the neck instantly becomes one big starting grid, (pattern), of Cma9... or what you want that Cmaj9 to be. You need to make a choice of what that is.
For me... I use 7 note position patterns that all have basic reference on low E string... and cover the other 5 strings and again the 12 frets.
This doesn't mean I can't change that... or I'm stuck etc... I just have a basic default fretboard and fingering organized system that I always use for my basic starting point....
I have an already organized fingering organization that covers the fretboard.... I don't need to think or figure anything out.... it's my default reference. I don't need to think, it's an internalized reference.
I can move anywhere... and play that Cmaj9.
What I can also do is create relationships with that Cma9... I can make it Lydian, Ionian.... I can see and hear... D9sus, A-11... maybe see and hear that Cma9 as I chord... and see V chords, G13sus, maybe G13b9....
What happens... I can make that Cmaj9 any type of reference I choose... break it down into three triads...C, E-, G... with inversions and develop them... maybe go into some of Jordon's directions. Or create a lead line and voice that lead line with Cmaj9 ...like
X X X X X 7
X X X X X 5
X X X X 5 X
X X X X 1 X
X X X X 3 X which could become
X X 5 5 5 7 Cma7
X X 2 2 3 3 C6/9
X 5 3 5 5 X D-9
3 X 3 3 1 X G-11
X 3 2 4 3 X Cma9
I could play whatever I choose or what the context implies I should play...
And I would be comping in some type of style.... I would be using voicings that I choose to support that Lead Line that create Chord Patterns that I choose to support... whatever I'm playing.... a soloist, a vocalist.... a head etc...
So you don't just play those grips of chords... If that's what you know... you can still use them but use them in a STYLE of comping.
Yea... you need to do the basic homework and make... choices with respect to fingerings.... buy you should end up with collections of voicings that you can adjust to fit the Lead Line and Harmonic Context.
Maybe... I'll try and put together common chord patters, lead lines with voicings that I like. I think Matt and posted some examples But we could just start... You do need to get the fretboard together, make choices on what organization you want to use for your default system. So you don't have to memorize everything all the time... It's really difficult to play Jazz in time when you don't have your technical BS together.
You can also just organize whatever voicings or grips of chords you already have together and learn how to have different notes on top to help have a voice leading approach... I think Christian has posted some examples.... but That is Not what I'm talking about when I say Comping. But you can still take those voicings and begin to create chord patterns with lead lines.
Again when you just start doing this without an organization of the fretboard... it becomes complicated
pretty quick. Better to work on both at same time.
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Originally Posted by Reg
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Take the first two bars of Have You Met Miss Jones?. They are Fmaj7 to D7.
If you like, you can play, say, 1x221x for one bar and then, say, 5x453x for the second bar.
But, I think one benchmark for good comping is that it ought to sound good and be interesting even if there isn't a solo going on.
So, players like to introduce some kind of melodic content into it. And, as Reg pointed out, that melodic content can be harmonized.
Pianists do this all the time. My favorite is Ralph Sharon, who played with Tony Bennett for years. His comping was masterful in its subtle melodic content.
So, in Miss Jones, we could think of a series of half notes for those two bars. Arbitrarily, let's take G F E Eb. Start on xxxx8x and descend to xxxx4x.
Then, you can harmonize each note. I like this:
x8798x Fmaj9. You could leave out the lowest note
x5556x could be called F69 or Dm11. You could leave out the lowest note
xx555x Am7
xx454x D7b9
This leads in perfectly to playing the Gm7 with a D on top as in xx333x.
From there, you have more options. One way to think about it would be to continue the half note line and pick the notes you want. Scat sing something. I just tried it and sang D up a minor third to F. Then I put it on the guitar and played it xx336x. Then Db and C. xx232x and xx231x.
After a moment's thought, I changed xx336x to xx876x and then played xx875x for the C7. I thought it sounded better.
So, that's the idea. Try to get some melodic content in the harmony and change chords with the groove to create a feeling of forward motion. In fact, I called it a half note line, but I actually push every chord by playing it an eighth note before the 1 and 3.
If you listen to Ralph Sharon check him out two bars before any bridge. He'll play what amounts to a two bar composition. Melody, rhythm, harmony, all to lead to the first chord of the bridge during two bars when Tony is not singing melody unless he's holding a note.
How do you get there? Here's a way. There may be better ways.
Learn the basic voicings that Chuck Wayne and, apparently, others have taught. With just those and a free pinkie, you can get almost any note on top of a chord. That's a start.
Then, learn the notes, by name, in the chords you use, so you can always find chord tones.
Then, every time you encounter somebody playing a sequence of chords in an interesting way, find the chords on the guitar. Try to get them in two octaves and in different fingerings, if you can. And, in all keys. Don't gloss over the recommendation for all keys.
Eventually, you'll hear what you want in your mind and your fingers will find it in any key, but you have to build that ability and it takes time. This sort of thing is available in books too.
Addendum: Years ago, I studied with Sid Margolis. He had been a big band player, 30s-50s. He taught "fill in progressions".
For example, he taught that, for 8 beats of C7, instead of playing 3x231x for 8 beats, play two beats each of the following:
x3431x x5333x x6757x x7858x. As best as I can recall. The melodic line is on the B string, C D F# G.
He taught another one for maj7 chords and a couple of others I only dimly remember. I think the Fmaj7 one was
1x223x 3x231x 4x343x 5x353x. To my ear, the melodic line is heard on the G string A Bb B C.
I do recall that, when he comped, he was moving constantly no matter how long it said to stay on the same chord in the chart.Last edited by rpjazzguitar; 09-26-2018 at 10:25 PM.
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I rediscovered this book in my tsundoku stack: Creative Chord Substitution for Jazz Guitar: Guitar Book .
Check out the contents page to see if it suits you, znerken.
Hope you have Ted Greene's Chord Chemistry.
Can you find a jazz teacher in your city in Norway?
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I learned differently since I learned to play piano first, but I'm teaching jazz guitar to my daughter using the Joe Pass way. He see's only 3 chord families; major, minor, and dominant. Everything else falls in one of those families, I'm also teaching her that math is a big part of music etc.. this along with having her learned the fretboard (I have my own system) has gotten her far along quickly.
Cheers,
Arnie..
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Learning chord vocabulary really needs to be in the context of tunes, or at least common progressions and cadences.
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I have a number of books but the one below really helped me with how to build and use chord voicings. Very clear and concise. The author (Jack Petersen) uses the term "raised" instead of "dropped" but the results are identical.
Chords Galore: A Systematic Approach to Voicing Chords on Guitar - Kindle edition by Jack Petersen. Arts & Photography Kindle eBooks @ Amazon.com.
Jack Petersen (guitarist) - Wikipedia
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Originally Posted by christianm77
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Originally Posted by r_o_b_s_o_n
Still mesmerized to this day.
Grant Green, What is This Thing
Yesterday, 01:59 PM in Ear Training, Transcribing & Reading