high action or low/hollow body?

[kris]

I think I have better sound with high action but it is not so comfortable to play...
Best
Kris

[sgosnell]

Is there a question in there somewhere? Everything is a compromise of some sort.

[rio]

Are we talking about amplified or acoustic? It is all physics so higher action will have a bigger sound but there’s plenty of guys with low action and good tone, particularly if we are talking about an electric archtop. It also affects the sustain and how the strings drive the top and that all comes through the pickups too so I don’t think there is a universal answer about what is better since it comes down to personal preference. However if it affects your playing negatively then it is obviously not going to sound good so there is that to consider as well.


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[kris]

I mean electric hollow body sound.
I experiment with very high action-guitar sound very clean and loud.
I try different picks and 13 Chromes.

[Hep To The Jive]

Try medium.

[sgosnell]

The only way I know of to get the perfect action is to experiment. Raise and lower the bridge, up and down, until you get what works for you. That's different for everyone. As I said, it's all compromises. Height, tone, string gauge, all have to be compromised to some degree. And then, when you think you have the perfect action height, readjust the intonation. Raising or lowering the action affects intonation, so you may have to move the bridge slightly one way or another. Or maybe not, depending on how it was originally set and how much you're willing to compromise that.

[Tal_175]

The objective is to adjust the trade offs to maximize the output quality.
Low action bad tone.
High action tentative, uncomfortable feel.
Same trade offs exist in gauges. No universal answer. I'd say gradually move up in gauge and action.
Then you'll have periods where you go low action, low gauge and wonder what the hell were you thinking playing with high action and gauge before. Then you'll have periods where you go high action and gauge again and be surprised how nice it sounds and how much you like it.

[citizenk74]

For me, archtop setup issues come down to "sweet spot" thinking. A higher action may excite the top more with a given string gauge. I find that lighter strings may work with a higher action, whereas heavier strings generally call for lower action. What works well in the humidity of summer might not fly in the dry winter season. Howard Roberts spoke of adjusting his action on an as-needed basis.
Variety is the spice of life. Some days I may prefer a stiffer action, and later that same day I may gravitate to something less athletic. It helps to have multiple guitars. At least that's what I tell Mrs. k.

[Alter]

Depends of your playing style and what you use the guitar for. Common setups i believe are, heavier strings with a lower action, or lighter ones with a higher action. Whatever someone chooses to use, it should feel comfortable and easy to practice with. Safety and health of the hands should be the number 1 concern.

I broke that rule years back, chasing the tone of high setup and heavy strings, and paid the price with tendinitis and neck problems that took years (and a change of technique) to overcome. So now, i tend to use medium/low action everywhere. The thickness of the strings doesn't seem to matter that much.

[john_a]

Funny, but if I'm setting up a guitar for others, I measure action and follow some agreed upon spec.
But for myself, I don't even keep track of where mine are set.. I just tweak it until I'm done.

And most of the time, what I like on my own guitars is on the high side. I like the sound, but also like the feel of getting fingers onto the string with more than just a perfectly perpendicular short travel (my technique is not so efficient.)

I guess you could equate this to how computer gamers like mechanical keyboards that have more of a distinct feel (as in old IBM Cherry buckling-spring key switches) than a cheap membrane switch on a low end notebook. So does a fretless wonder with .032" action on .008" stirngs feel more like punching buttons on your microwave? Yes !

That said, I do have one archtop that I'm liking with lower action, it just ended up "there" for the moment, but I might feel different if/when I try some round wounds on it.

John

[kris]

I play arch-top jazz guitar with 13's chromes with high action and I use Tele with 11's with low action.
My arch-top is not so easy to play but Tele-yes.
Different construction and sound of the guitars.

[oldane]

There is high action and then there is high action. (I also posted this in the other thread about action).


Travlin Light-Diane Schuur&Freddie Green - ?? Dailymotion

[vinlander]

A guitar optimised for tone or one optimised for playability ?
How to get one without loosing too much the other means compromising and has such all my guitars always end up with the lowest action before buzzing.
I have a light touch, I know by raising the action a bit more I get more dynamics but I also need to dig more while playing; at the end of the day, playability always wins for me!

[Alter]

To this day, ease of playing is still not exactly clear for me on an instrument. Has to do with the scale and setup, sizes, frets, bridge and neck angle, etc. Also a lot to do with the quality of the guitar, since on a great one where the notes jump out effortlessly, you get the feeling of ease. But then, a cheap instrument comes up, setup like the others, and it plays like a dream, and you are like???

I was reading an article Frans Elferink wrote about his guitars, and how he thinks a guitar being built to vibrate, neck and body, creates the feeling of ease and responsiveness to the player. I found this to be true on his guitars. But the whole deal of what makes an instrument easy to play is still a practical mystery to me, or at least I sometimes see guitars that I am unable to explain

[kris]

every guitar is differenet...
I put 11's Ernie Ball last night on my arch-top and I think it's sound much better than ON 13's CHROMES...

[Andy Bartosh]

Travlin Light-Diane Schuur&Freddie Green - ?? Dailymotion

[rpjazzguitar]

Ease of playing is affected by every dimension of the guitar from body size to string spacing. Some less obvious factors include nut height, non-vibrating string length (meaning behind the bridge and nut), pickguard height (if you rest a finger or fingernails on the pickguard), maybe breakover angle at the bridge, fret size and shape, how the fret ends are dressed and more. A non-sticky feeling finish on the back of the neck matters. So does the fingerboard wood, I think (I seem to prefer rosewood). Whether the guitar balances properly is easy to overlook in the store.

That said, no matter what you do, there's going to be a great player who did it that way and another great player who did it the opposite way.

I don't think it's possible to give good advice on-line except for some generalities. My suggestion is to focus on what you want the guitar to sound like and how you're most comfortable holding/playing it. And then, keep trying things to hone in on the instrument and setup that allows you to express yourself the way you want to.

While I think this is good advice, it's an absolute pain in the neck to follow it. I find that I can't evaluate an instrument until I have fiddled with setup and played it for a few weeks with the "final" setup. How can you do this? Buy a guitar with a return privilege and fiddle with the setup without sacrificing the return privilege? Rule things out in the store?

About a month ago I got my new Comins GCS-1. Since then, I went to lighter strings, adjusted the truss rod, fiddled endlessly before deciding that the guitar sounded better, for many purposes, on the single coil setting, and adjusting my pedal board sounds for this guitar. Now, I'm thinking about going to 9.5 instead of 10 E string and raising the pickguard. Eventually, I'll figure out if I like this guitar. And, I'm fully aware that Jack Wilkins plays the same instrument and sounds fantastic.

And then, after you get the perfect guitar, your tastes may change. You play different music, you learn new techniques, you get tired of your usual sounds. I may be joking here, but this may be an argument to get an L5. I can't recall meeting anybody who ever said, "I used to play an L5". Maybe that's a guitar you stick with <g>.

[jzucker]

kind of depends on your personal style. If you are a pat martino derived player who picks a lot of notes and makes extensive use of the acoustic dynamics of the guitar, you will want heavy strings and high action. But if you play a lot of legato ala scofield, stern, mike moreno or tim miller, heavy strings and high action may not be for you.

One guy who splits the difference is Adam Rogers. He uses a heavy string set (.012 to .052ish) but uses a plain .020 third and medium action. And he plays a lot of legato stuff but the action is high enough that he can dig in and get dynamics without the strings buzzing out.

Seems like from what I've heard of your playing, that might suit you as well.

[vintagelove]

Low and fast for me.

[christianm77]

I like a lowish action* with heavy strings.

Generally heavy top light bottom. How heavy? Usually .13 but one guitar a 15 top.

I discovered how much I like a super heavy top string when I forgot to bring a replacement e to a gig and broke a string. All I had has a 15 from an argentine set lol.

Wound strings as a 12 set.

I don’t find heavy trebles hard to play, but I do with basses.

What I actually want is an even tension set. TI gauges aim for these but their roundwounds do not withstand the punishment I give them when playing acoustic.

* I know this cos many players happily use actions I would consider unplayable. I don’t think they have adjusted the neck at all as they’ve increased string gauge.

My guitars feel light as I set them up to have relatively little neck relief as well. I’m into tweaking the truss rod....

Setting the action on an archtop is something that can be done very easily. If I get buzz, or even if I need more acoustic volume on a gig, I raise it with the thumb wheels.

[christianm77]

I am convinced, entirely without reason, that legato is possible on a heavy string guitar with sufficiently accurate fretting.

Tbh for that shit, I think .12s is about as heavy as is practicable.... I would choose 11s for a fusion set up.... but that’s compromise and I don’t like compromise.

I slur around 30% of my notes in any case...

[Runepune]

I kinda prefer e.g. 11's with high action over 13's with low action. Sounds woodier!

[christianm77]

Those suckers wobble around too much for me. Stay still dammit!

[Herbie]

This is simple: in the beginning of the tour low action and in the end of the tour high action!

I have always had a heavy right hand but lately I have learned to pick easier and that allows lower actions than earlier.

[Cunamara]

And then, after you get the perfect guitar, your tastes may change. You play different music, you learn new techniques, you get tired of your usual sounds. I may be joking here, but this may be an argument to get an L5. I can't recall meeting anybody who ever said, "I used to play an L5". Maybe that's a guitar you stick with <g>.

LOL. The one case I can think of off the top of my head: Jim Hall. He had an L-5 when he started with Chico Hamilton, sold it and bought the Les Paul, which he then traded for the ES-175.