The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by eduardosanz
    Yeah, I think he definitely arranges for solo jazz guitar rather than "block" chord melody (ala Robert Conti to name one).

    And talking about groove, this man really has it...

    Re Conti, I think it's probably more of a teaching approach versus playing philosophy. If you watch some of his DVDs, he breaks things up, rhythmically, between thumb and fingers, and does some more stylistic fingerstyle stuff on occasion. The main thing about the block chords, is that they're very clean for TEACHING one specific element, which, in his case, is voicings for each melody note.

    The phrasing that is demonstrated in the Roberts and Morgen videos is much more complex, and I wonder if they really get into how to phrase things in different ways like that. I'm not talking about articulation. I'm talking time, manipulation of beat etc. when you start getting into all of that stuff, you're either assuming the student is much more advanced, or that they'll just pick up some things from learning your one way of playing it , as an arrangement.

    The phrasing elements are probably a thread unto themselves.

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  3. #77

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    Howard is no longer with us, but he left a legacy of print works and his videos that are pretty splendid. If one is looking to play solo jazz guitar, he is a good place to start or to end. Especially in terms of voice leading with sophistication yet very direct interpretation of the music. Just the essentials. And class.
    Last edited by targuit; 02-22-2016 at 04:17 PM.

  4. #78

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    So, at the suggestion made here, I decided to spend a little time on "Alfie." I chose it mainly because I was largely unfamiliar with the song, never having tried to play it before. I gave myself one hour to work with the song and then gave myself one take for the video clip, which was shot with a "point-and-shoot" digital camera that had a video feature. I just set the camera on a stack of books on my desk, plugged my guitar into the amp, and let the camera's microphone, such as it was, do the sound.

    The only fancy part was I also filmed a brief explanation at the beginning and blended it into the clip, and made a title slide at the start. But the music represents one single hour of preparation and one single take.

    This is very very rough, it's really just a rough-draft, but it's my attempt to show good-faith in this discussion. I doubt my interlocutor will show comparable good faith and take a song of my suggestion, say, "Somewhere Over the Rainbow" or "If Ever I Would Leave You" and give it one hour, one take, and post. But I decided I would rather attempt the challenge and let the chips fall out however they might.

    I have also temporarily removed Jay from my "Ignore" list to make conversation possible.

    So here's the song I didn't choose, which I don't especially like, and haven't given much time to work on!


  5. #79

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    Well, I'll tell you straight up - you played the hell out of that song. Pity if you don't consider this as part of your repertoire. You did a beautiful job, Lawson.

    Bravo, man. If it was about cattle, that was a stampede.

  6. #80

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    Quote Originally Posted by targuit
    Well, I'll tell you straight up - you played the hell out of that song. Pity if you don't consider this as part of your repertoire. You did a beautiful job, Lawson.

    Bravo, man. If it was about cattle, that was a stampede.
    Well thank you very much. That's very kind. My main problem with the song is two things. One is the form, which seems to be something like 10 bars, 8 bars, an odd modulation for the 8 bar bridge, and then the final section seems imbalanced. Of course, it was sung, and it is a meditative kind of haunting vocal. I confess I couldn't figure out how to translate that into an instrumental performance. Second problem was the repetition of the same figure too often, for my ear, the figure in bars 7-8 starting with the Dm7.

    To tell the truth, I don't gig much, and when I do, I'm pretty desperate for any tunes I can play that people will recognize, so likely I'll keep at this one. After all, I only gave it an hour, and so I've not really had time to think about it, and can't think of a single jazz performance of it though I'm sure it must be frequent since it's in the Real Book.

    Perhaps, after all, conversation from this will lead to some fruitful insights.

    thank again for your very kind and appreciated words.

  7. #81

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    On "Alfie"



    I didn't care much for the movie version, but I liked this take quite well.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Many years ago, I took about 8 lessons from Howard Morgen.
    I sought him out because he taught the guitar teacher of the local music store who played pretty well himself.
    I had about 2 years playing experience at the time. He relied heavily on book learning.
    This was before he had published any of his own.
    Each lesson we did a page or a few examples from the following books:

    Ronnie Lee Jazz
    Sal Salvador Single String
    William Leavitt #1
    Carcassi's Method book
    Carulli Studies for the right hand

    I ran out of money long before I had progressed far enough to address chord melody.
    I never heard him play anything other than the etudes I was working on.
    I only started to get a sense of him as a player when he started writing columns for Guitar Player Magazine.

  8. #82

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    Bill Evans could play Mary Had a Little Lamb and make it sound fabulous. I had never heard his version of the song.

    I think that the key of C is very felicitous for this song on guitar. An example of the situation where articulating the melody as in "chord melody" style makes choice of key important. I don't think this is discussed much, but one argument for playing a tune in several keys is to find the one where the melody sits the best in terms of ease of execution. (Btw, as Jeff has noted, I don't like the term 'chord melody' but I don't know how else to characterize the style of solo guitar playing where you articulate the melody effectively.)

    I don't obsess about that but it makes a difference to me. In the case of this song I would play an instrumental version in C, while the vocal version I recorded with two nylon string tracks is in A because of comfort for my tenor range.

    I think Lawson as well as Mike did a fine job with this song from the instrumental angle. As a singer (at least in my own mind) I think the vocal articulating the lyrics can really highlight the melody in performance. For some reason I get very moved by the lyrics in this setting. Although I think many of Bacharach's and Davis' songs work best with a woman's voice and tessitura, I still find it a very powerful marriage of melody and harmonic progression.

    As an aside, I created my own transcription of this song off YTube videos. Although I do like and use my Hal Leonard Best Little Real Fake Book in a now broken down plastic spiral bound version I bought in the mid Eighties, it is the only one I have and the song was not in it. I know one can find some versions of the internet as well. But usually I just create my own.

    One point about guitar accompaniment with a singer. We don't talk much about this as most of our players and performers eschew singing. Kudos to Mike on that score for singing the song and playing. But an interesting aspect is the different demands on the guitar part in the two circumstances - as an accompaniment versus a solo guitar chord melody. I find the later more demanding, yet I really enjoy using the guitar as accompaniment to a vocal performance, which I find much easier personally. Also I think if you can carry off a credible vocal, this particular song just shines in that setting. I guess 'credible' means no one throws a drink or rotten tomatoes at you on stage.

    For example, as a question to Lawson, Mike and others - do you have any thoughts about the difference in role of the guitarist when accompanying a singer with a song like this? I think immediately of the great videos of Ella and Joe in concert. I mean you play the guitar a bit differently in support of a singer than when you are playing solo guitar.

    I can't help the feeling that I'm somehow "cheating" when I sing and accompany myself on the guitar as I find it so much less demanding. Yet I love the potency of the human voice with proper solo guitar accompaniment in the vocal / guitar setting. And I also favor the classical nylon string guitar in that setting. Any thoughts on this question?
    Last edited by targuit; 02-23-2016 at 06:58 AM.

  9. #83

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    I have to laugh, Mike, at your comment on being verbose - perhaps we both share that thing. I would like you to raise the gain on your mic a bit - you have an intriguing voice and I like to hear it.

    And Lawson, I hope I'm not repeating myself too often, but your point about the structure (extra measures) and the difficulty of articulating the melody in the context of solo guitar with this song is right on the mark. That is what makes this song particularly challenging in the setting of solo (jazz) guitar.

    I'm reminded of a comment I heard by Pat Metheny in an interview where he talks about his music as something that has many influences and he remarks that at a certain point he sees the convergence between jazz and other styles as just "music", aside from categorizations. I think that applies to this tune. But your point about audience response is also salient. This song when performed effectively just "strikes a chord" in people's hearts. Or mine at least.

  10. #84

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    In response to the OP's original question, here's some thoughts about how I go about doing these 'chord-melody' things.

    First I learn the melody all the way through - I feel it's far more important than the chords! If you get the melody out of a fakebook, you probably need to raise it an octave. (they are generally in concert pitch which is one octave lower than when notated for the guitar). Also I generally listen to a few versions by jazz greats, and vocal versions e.g. Ella/Frank, to check the melody sounds right.

    Then I'll look at the chords, generally I use the Hal Leonard real book or the Ireal app, they seem fairly reliable. Generally I'll only put a chord under the melody when the chord changes. I don't normally like to harmonise every single melody note, it sounds too 'clotted', and it makes it difficult to let the melody flow.

    I don't have a very scientific method for choosing the chord voicing. I just grab one of the voicings I know that will have the top note I want, or has a top note near to that note. If I need to, I'll just change the top note to fit. There's a bit of 'trial and error' in this, but it's surprising how quick it gets when you've done it on a few tunes (well that's how I find it anyway). Most of the chords I use came out of the Joe Pass chord book, they seem to do the job.

    If a chord feels awkward to play with the melody, then I'll just lose the root. You don't need a root on every chord. If I still can't find a chord I like, then I just drop the chord altogether. You don't need that many chords. Let the melody carry itself for the whole bar - sometimes I think this sounds better!

    A couple of tips:
    I often use those little 4-note 'stacked fourths' chords, either on the middle 4 strings or the top 4 strings. They are really quick to play and seem to fit under a lot of top notes. They are versatile because they can fit a major sound (6 9 chord) or a minor sound (minor 11). I think they also give you a little bit of a 'Bill Evans/Ed Bickert' flavour which is nice.

    When you need a major chord with the tonic note on top, it can be tricky. I often use a major chord with a 6th in it. This avoids the clash of a maj7 with the tonic, but it sounds nicer than a straight major triad, because the 6th gives it a bit of colour.

    Final tip - if your arrangement sounds at any point as if it is dragging or holding up the melody, then consider sacrificing the chord at that point. Much better to let the melody 'sing' by itself, than encumber it with a chord.

    I've got an example for you which I think covers these points - I'll post it later tonight.

  11. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by grahambop
    In response to the OP's original question, here's some thoughts about how I go about doing these 'chord-melody' things.
    Great post, Graham!

  12. #86

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    Quote Originally Posted by grahambop

    I often use those little 4-note 'stacked fourths' chords, either on the middle 4 strings or the top 4 strings. They are really quick to play and seem to fit under a lot of top notes. They are versatile because they can fit a major sound (6 9 chord) or a minor sound (minor 11). I think they also give you a little bit of a 'Bill Evans/Ed Bickert' flavour which is nice.


    Which chords are you talking about? Could you please elaborate on that?

    I am really looking forward to see / hera your example.

    Thanks a lot. Very helpful.

  13. #87
    I'm a bit of a nerd about this stuff, and have a bit of a different process than most, I would imagine. I tend to not listen CM tunes a lot before. Don't always listen to multiple versions of a specific tune for chord melody. Probably do more of that for improvisational ideas , if I'm really working a tune. Not a great student in that regard. I don't put chords on every melody note now very much, but I did at the beginning and think it's a pretty good exercise as Jordan has mentioned.

    Regarding phrasing and the problems of things getting bogged down with playing a chord for each melody note, I have found that most of the problems in that area have to do more with ARTICULATION , technical things , as opposed to having too many chords etc. It's absolutely true that reducing the number of chords is a solution, and it's probably the one I use most. At the same time , it's also some great exercise (for phrasing and articulation) to work on articulating the melody exactly the way you want WITHIN the context of chords of fuller chords.

    I tend to have pretty systematic ways of developing études and such for really working a lot of different possibilities for phrasing tunes. I'd be happy to share if anyone's interested, but I really only play for me anyway. So, I know I don't always do things the way I should.

    Like a bad student, I mostly play off the lead sheet. I don't memorize a lot of things , but I play through a lot of tunes daily. When I start gigging or jamming with others , I'm sure this will change as performance becomes the goal, but right now, my emphasis is my own enjoyment of the music , and getting the best out of something that I can get on the first couple of run-throughs. All things considered, I need to work more on improv anyway. I'm better on the first run through of a CM than most, but probably much worse than most generally.

    I've worked on the phrasing aspects to the detriment of my knowledge of chord voicings etc. So, I've got some work to do there. Regarding voicings, Robert Conti was to me what it sounds like Joe Pass was to Graham. It's probably really beneficial to have some go-to voicings the cover a lot of options as a starting point. Before I knew those voicings, it was pretty slow and frustrating building everything from scratch. Then you see the way a real player, like Joe, does things, and you think "that's so much easier/hipper etc". Probably really beneficial to start with some basic go-to voicings.

    I've added to these over the years . I usually alter basic voicings on the weak beat or weak side and have just added others I like. Everything I do is pretty basic, but the melody is king, and phrasing and articulation considerations allow me to let it lead as opposed to being a slave to the chord forms.

    We should probably pick a simple tune. Alfie is a beast, at the beginning anyway.
    Last edited by matt.guitarteacher; 02-23-2016 at 02:10 PM.

  14. #88

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    Quote Originally Posted by targuit
    Bill Evans could play Mary Had a Little Lamb and make it sound fabulous. I had never heard his version of the song.

    I think that the key of C is very felicitous for this song on guitar. An example of the situation where articulating the melody as in "chord melody" style makes choice of key important. I don't think this is discussed much, but one argument for playing a tune in several keys is to find the one where the melody sits the best in terms of ease of execution. (Btw, as Jeff has noted, I don't like the term 'chord melody' but I don't know how else to characterize the style of solo guitar playing where you articulate the melody effectively.)

    I don't obsess about that but it makes a difference to me. In the case of this song I would play an instrumental version in C, while the vocal version I recorded with two nylon string tracks is in A because of comfort for my tenor range.

    I think Lawson as well as Mike did a fine job with this song from the instrumental angle. As a singer (at least in my own mind) I think the vocal articulating the lyrics can really highlight the melody in performance. For some reason I get very moved by the lyrics in this setting. Although I think many of Bacharach's and Davis' songs work best with a woman's voice and tessitura, I still find it a very powerful marriage of melody and harmonic progression.

    As an aside, I created my own transcription of this song off YTube videos. Although I do like and use my Hal Leonard Best Little Real Fake Book in a now broken down plastic spiral bound version I bought in the mid Eighties, it is the only one I have and the song was not in it. I know one can find some versions of the internet as well. But usually I just create my own.

    One point about guitar accompaniment with a singer. We don't talk much about this as most of our players and performers eschew singing. Kudos to Mike on that score for singing the song and playing. But an interesting aspect is the different demands on the guitar part in the two circumstances - as an accompaniment versus a solo guitar chord melody. I find the later more demanding, yet I really enjoy using the guitar as accompaniment to a vocal performance, which I find much easier personally. Also I think if you can carry off a credible vocal, this particular song just shines in that setting. I guess 'credible' means no one throws a drink or rotten tomatoes at you on stage.

    For example, as a question to Lawson, Mike and others - do you have any thoughts about the difference in role of the guitarist when accompanying a singer with a song like this? I think immediately of the great videos of Ella and Joe in concert. I mean you play the guitar a bit differently in support of a singer than when you are playing solo guitar.

    I can't help the feeling that I'm somehow "cheating" when I sing and accompany myself on the guitar as I find it so much less demanding. Yet I love the potency of the human voice with proper solo guitar accompaniment in the vocal / guitar setting. And I also favor the classical nylon string guitar in that setting. Any thoughts on this question?
    These are all really good and important considerations. My first love was always instrumental performance. The first "real" song I learned was some quasi-flamenco thing from Frederick Noad's Playing the Guitar. I think it was called "Sevillanas" or something like that. I spent a summer learning, note by note, from the record, "Classical Gas" which then, along with the aforesaid "Sevillanas," constituted my entire repertoire. But in the "Folk Music Scare of the 60's" when it almost caught on, such purely instrumental performance did not get the gigs or the girls. So I took first to "talking blues" type songs, then to satiric social-commentary, and finally became a coffee-house denizen and John-Denver-Wanna-Be. So eventually I played mainly to accompany myself singing.

    So I think there really are two different approaches to accompanying a singer. One is to provide a simple rhythmic and harmonic framework for the song. This is what we normally do accompanying ourselves. The focus is almost entirely on the vocal, its quality and its content. Maybe we have some good licks, but it's not mainly about the guitar. The other type of accompaniment is usually when we play for another person singing, and our artistry on the guitar is part of the total performance. This is the "Joe Pass and Ella Fitzgerald" thing. You could either say Joe was "singing" on the guitar, with her, or that Ella was "playing" on her voice with Joe. In that, Joe is listening to her just like he'd listen to another instrumentalist. Playing in such as way as to create a perfect weave, respecting the lead voice, but knowing more is expected than mere accompaniment.

    Here I think guitar is different from piano. I've seen hundreds of vocalists who have a pianist accompanying them. Normally the piano part is nice, but unremarkable. Typically the piano actually doubles the melody. Once I played for a vocalist doing jazz vocals, and she was kind of shocked that I didn't double the melody. "How will I hit the right notes?" she asked. I told her if she thought the note was wrong, slur it up or down, it'll be a blue note! She was actually surprised and delighted with the outcome.

    "Alfie" is a very extreme example of a song whose primary punch really is the vocal, and the words. I find the words a little bit to 60's "let's all care about each other" and clichéd, but that's the era, just like other jazz standards. But without the words, it's a challenge to make that melody "pop." As I keep working with it, I think it is going to need some serious chord substitutions, some "outside" fills, etc. But it's likely to be fine.

    On the question of key (which I think you raised in another post) I'm always torn. We guitarists are infamous for wanting everything in sharp-keys, open positions. I think for solo guitar, sure, play a tune in the key that gives you the most latitude to interpret the song creatively. But if we plan to play in ensembles, especially with horn players, we need to know tunes in the main keys in which they are published in the fake books. Of course, "all 12 keys" is the ideal, but we have to start somewhere.

    For example, I love "Someday My Prince Will Come" and have for years played it in Bb. But the high-end of the melody is very uncomfortable on the guitar in Bb, so I used to drop it an octave, and it lost it's punch. I finally caved and transposed it to F where it "lays" very nicely. I was somewhat comforted when I found a fake book where it was, indeed, published in F!

    So there are some thoughts on these matters, all of which I think are solid issues we guitarists face in learning to work with these songs on every level.

  15. #89

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    Eduardo, the stacked 4th chords are cool, instead of stacking diatonic thirds, stack diatonic fourths...

    so, in C major...

    CFBE

    DGCF

    EADG

    FBEA

    GCFB

    ADGC

    BEAD

    You'll find these all sit in very "easy to grip" shapes on the string sets 5-2 and 4-1.


    By the way, graham's post above is excellent, and it's exactly the same way I go about playing chords and melody.

  16. #90

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    I thought I'd put down a bit of my own process, since I just went through it fresh on a new song.

    I learned to harmonize melodies on the guitar from several sources. First, and maybe most important, was the old Mel Bay book Mel Bay's Guitar Melody Chord Playing System. This is very old-school. Tab was used in some spots, but the exercises were all like lead-sheets: just treble clef melodies and basic sheet-music chord symbols. The book stresses learning the harmonized scales and separates out all the altered chords for special treatment. I confess, I likely missed about 75% of what this book was teaching me, but what I got from it was:

    • Play the melody an octave higher than written, normally on the 1st and 2nd strings
    • Learn the correct voicings of all the main chords all the way up the neck in a systematic manner
    • Start out harmonizing every note, then use good taste to realize not every note needs a chord under it

    From that point, I couldn't really even play down a lead sheet just playing single notes. I always found myself dropping a chord under the melody note.

    Then I learned my basic harmony from a local teacher named John Kaney, who taught me what I later learned was the CAGED system for chords up the neck. It reinforced for me what the Mel Bay book had taught. He also drilled into me the Cycle of 4ths/5ths.

    Then there was Steve Crowell and his chord-melody arrangements, of which I must have learned 10-15 note for note. He creates these things not only to provide a nice version of a song to play, but to teach the player solid voicings, various chordal devices that are easily transferable to other settings.

    Layer over all that an immersion into Joe Pass.

    So my basic approach is to look at a lead sheet and as I play down the melody, I usually try to drop the chords under the melody everywhere I can, spotting places that are awkward, where passing chords are needed, etc. Where I can't play a pretty full chord, I like to harmonize the line in little 2-note voicings, with some movement in them. I like to have a coherent bass line, but it doesn't have to be roots. I also use a lot of the standard substitutions, i.e. for ii-V-I will often go ii-IIb-I, approach chords from a half-step above or below, etc. I also have a stack of chord-melody ii-V cliches that I can haul out in a pinch.

    Anyhow, those are the things I think about working with tunes. Right now I have realized that I am stuck on about 2 kinds of endings to tunes, and rarely give any thought at all to my intros. So I think I want to work on intros and endings a bit more.

  17. #91
    destinytot Guest
    Re. the OP's question:
    Maybe this question is motre clear: wht´s the process to locate the correct chord for a given melody note?
    First, choose a bass note to go with the melody and hold it until it no longer sounds 'right' or the chord seems to 'need' to change.

    Then go back, look at the bass and melody to decide (i) the type of chord (eg major/minor/dominant) and (ii) the role of the melody and the chosen bass note within the resulting chord.

    (In theory, harmonic choices such as extension, alteration and substitution become available at this point. There's a wonderful concept I'm learning about and introduced by kind favour of Reg, 'modal interchange'. However, you need to know your diatonic chords...)

    I suggest using strong root motion in the bass.

    Any diatonic chord can progress to any other diatonic chord, but for me the aim is to make the transition/change sound pretty.

    Re. my personal contribution


    It's only a first look, and a bit of a train wreck (but that's what rehearsals are for):

  18. #92

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    Quote Originally Posted by eduardosanz

    Maybe this question is motre clear: wht´s the process to locate the correct chord for a given melody note?

    Thanks in advanced
    My approach to that will be to look at the flow of the chord progression on the lead sheet. If the note is right on a chord change, I will choose a voicing of that chord that allows me to place the melody note on top. If the note is not a standard chord-tone, i.e. 1, 3, 5, 7, my next question is whether it's a pretty standard extension, i.e. 9, 11 or 13. If so, then I just play the indicated chord with that extension on top.

    If the chord is a passing chord or altered chord, it's a little different. Passing chords are often Dim7, and it's not uncommon for the melody note not to be one of the notes in the Dim7 chord. I've found often just picking a dim7 chord with that note on top will "work." Or you can play the indicated Dim7 as close as possible to the melody note and simply add it.

    Other times if the melody note seems to clash a little with the indicated chord, I will play a b5 sub and it works nicely.

    The idea is to play the chord that suits the flow of the tune, and normally you can add that melody note "on top." It requires that you have a good knowledge of your Maj7, Min7, Dom7, Dim7, and Min7b5 forms up the neck.

    opinions differ on the root. I don't always feel like I need the technical root of the chord every time, but I do like my "bottom note" line to be coherent and to flow. All the voices, ideally, ought to flow like parts in a choral vocal arrangement.

    Another thing I often do is not put a chord under a melody note but simply a single other note, either tracking it in a moving thirds style, or with some counterpoint.

  19. #93

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    I really recommend learning the tune as separate entities before arranging...know the chords, be able to comp through the tune, know the melody. Otherwise you're learning an arrangement, not a song. And if you become too married to that arrangement, one little slip up and it's tough to recover...but if you actually know the tune, the melody can save your butt...

    Plus, an arrangement is not jazz

    I arrange...don't even want to use that word, but I'm not sure I know a better...I "arrange" very loosely...there's always room for improv or to go in another direction if I'm feeling like it. To me, that's jazz, but it's also "safer!" It means I don't necessarily do a lot of the walking bass lines...but if you sub wisely and utilize different inversions of each chord when putting the melody on top, you'll be surprised, there's interesting bass movement right there under your fingers.

  20. #94
    Here's my take on Alfie. I tried to make an exercise of doing it with more full chords kind of like what I was talking about. At least I'm thinking full chords. They're not articulated that way at all, with the right hand, and I very often plant the "melody finger" of the target chord first, which really helps with melodic phrasing options. It may give the impression that there's more going on than there really. It's definitely not anything complicated. Pretty simple chord voicings mostly. I think you can always get away with a little more simplicity if the right hand is going. Never really listened to any versions other than a kessell version (I think?) which I seem to remember seeing here a few years ago.

    Along the lines of what Mr. B was saying about arranging, I've never been interested in fully arranging tunes, because I don't want to remember them the way I play them today anyway. For a tough tune like this, especially so. I used to look at this tune as more of a "teaching me things I can actually use in playable tunes" category. I usually play through them several times, as I flip through, and go onto another. I'm about 5-6 years into the CM thing, I guess. Not too long ago, this tune was in the category of "impossible/never going to happen". Now, I feel like I could probably work this up, if I needed too. Like most everything I play, this is just a snapshot of what I'm kind of able to do, today, and hopefully it will be a lot better in the future. Did a few takes, and liked this one the best, though it has a couple of outright snafus that the others didn't. Always glad to have any comments, positive or negative. Work in progress.

  21. #95

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    I've been playing around with "Over the Rainbow" and have it together enough to try a take. I will also post it over on the "Songs" area, but thought I'd put it here because I've been working with the tune while engaging in this discussion, which has taken a very strong turn toward a meaty, useful direction.

    I used a "Jam" interface and plugged directly into my computer. No amp modeling, reverb, added EQ, or anything else, so it has a pretty "dry" sound. I just used the Quicktime Player record feature and the laptop's webcam. I then added a title screen in Screenflow.


  22. #96

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    Quote Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher
    Here's my take on Alfie. I tried to make an exercise of doing it with more full chords kind of like what I was talking about. At least I'm thinking full chords. They're not articulated that way at all, with the right hand, and I very often plant the "melody finger" of the target chord first, which really helps with melodic phrasing options. It may give the impression that there's more going on than there really. It's definitely not anything complicated. Pretty simple chord voicings mostly. I think you can always get away with a little more simplicity if the right hand is going. Never really listened to any versions other than a kessell version (I think?) which I seem to remember seeing here a few years ago.

    Along the lines of what Mr. B was saying about arranging, I've never been interested in fully arranging tunes, because I don't want to remember them the way I play them today anyway. For a tough tune like this, especially so. I used to look at this tune as more of a "teaching me things I can actually use in playable tunes" category. I usually play through them several times, as I flip through, and go onto another. I'm about 5-6 years into the CM thing, I guess. Not too long ago, this tune was in the category of "impossible/never going to happen". Now, I feel like I could probably work this up, if I needed too. Like most everything I play, this is just a snapshot of what I'm kind of able to do, today, and hopefully it will be a lot better in the future. Did a few takes, and liked this one the best, though it has a couple of outright snafus that the others didn't. Always glad to have any comments, positive or negative. Work in progress.
    I'm having my same old problem and can't see this clip.

    Would you do me a HUGE favor and try something? Use the icon at the top of the post screen, the "clip" icon, and paste the YouTube URL in there? I am wondering if this forum software hosting this site treats clips differently if they are inserted into posts in different ways?

    If you don't want to try it, that's okay with me. I am just still tracking down what's wrong with the consistent problems I have with clips from specific people.

  23. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by lawson-stone
    I'm having my same old problem and can't see this clip.

    Would you do me a HUGE favor and try something? Use the icon at the top of the post screen, the "clip" icon, and paste the YouTube URL in there? I am wondering if this forum software hosting this site treats clips differently if they are inserted into posts in different ways?

    If you don't want to try it, that's okay with me. I am just still tracking down what's wrong with the consistent problems I have with clips from specific people.


    That's peculiar. Uploaded from my phone this time. Completely separate from my office setup. Could you view the one from my office the other day? Not sure what you mean by "clip icon".

  24. #98

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    Quote Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher
    That's peculiar. Uploaded from my phone this time. Completely separate from my office setup. Could you view the one from my office the other day? Not sure what you mean by "clip icon".
    Same problem here to. There is a row of icons at the top of the screen we type posts in. One of them has a little chain-link, one a red X, one a photo, and one a tiny little film-strip. If you click on it, a window opens and you paste in the link to a video clip.

    I think since I can view it okay on Firefox, that this really is a Safari issue. I might just have to start using Firefox to read this board.

    thanks for trying!

  25. #99

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    Now we are cooking here! Laura is a good example of a song where even if the melody is quite original and 'within the chords' in a sense meaning to my mind easier to play in terms of articulation, it still sounds very jazzy to me. And lends itself to the solo guitar treatment well.

    I like your version, Mike, though I thought one element that I did not hear strongly would really tie the song threads together - a good bass line. I was reading in Downbeat last month or the month before an article in which the author made a little metaphor about the bass line. I don't remember the line verbatim, but the gist was that a good bass line anchors the other instruments and helps to bind the 'arrangement' for lack of a better word together structurally.
    I also would like to hear a little more volume or prominence of your voice in the mix with perhaps a touch more warmth in the EQ. Just my observations on a first listen.

    I wish I had even a decent electric bass at my disposal because I think it is important. I have a Roland Guitar synth GR-20 that I got for that purpose but it just isn't the same as a real bass. I do have a Yamaha cheapo keyboard synth with bass sounds that sounded better than the Roland guitar synth in that regard, but nothing beats a bass.

    Of course this is a bit off topic from arranging and playing a CM style solo version but I though it was an interesting thing to think about even in solo CM playing. One reason I like to play that style with a classical nylon string guitar.

    As an aside I'm in the process right now of being truant from my daily task of copying medical records by working on a CD-R of my recordings of some of these songs. My Korg recorder is a bit tricky or maybe I'm a little tech dense which I know to be true. The D1200 is legacy gear, and I hope when I do upgrade to Apple Logic some day that the recording process is more transparent. One pet peeve I have is that sometimes the "manual" is just not crystal clear about certain operations, and if you don't have the settings right, it can be tricky going. I need a live in gear tech person. Unfortunately, my son is not interested in the job.

  26. #100

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    Quote Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher
    Here's my take on Alfie. I tried to make an exercise of doing it with more full chords kind of like what I was talking about. At least I'm thinking full chords. They're not articulated that way at all, with the right hand, and I very often plant the "melody finger" of the target chord first, which really helps with melodic phrasing options. It may give the impression that there's more going on than there really. It's definitely not anything complicated. Pretty simple chord voicings mostly. I think you can always get away with a little more simplicity if the right hand is going. Never really listened to any versions other than a kessell version (I think?) which I seem to remember seeing here a few years ago.

    Along the lines of what Mr. B was saying about arranging, I've never been interested in fully arranging tunes, because I don't want to remember them the way I play them today anyway. For a tough tune like this, especially so. I used to look at this tune as more of a "teaching me things I can actually use in playable tunes" category. I usually play through them several times, as I flip through, and go onto another. I'm about 5-6 years into the CM thing, I guess. Not too long ago, this tune was in the category of "impossible/never going to happen". Now, I feel like I could probably work this up, if I needed too. Like most everything I play, this is just a snapshot of what I'm kind of able to do, today, and hopefully it will be a lot better in the future. Did a few takes, and liked this one the best, though it has a couple of outright snafus that the others didn't. Always glad to have any comments, positive or negative. Work in progress.
    Very nice Matt. You are several steps ahead of me on this tune, and have some nice ideas for how to set it up.

    A agree with you and Mr. B. that the goal isn't a fixed "arrangement" unless of course, we really hit on something extra-special and in those cases, I'm for getting it right and locking it in! But normally I want to have the song under my fingers well enough to play a passable performance, and then I start playing around with alternatives for setting up different sections of it.

    I actually can't separate melody and harmony. I learn the melody and the chords at the same time. Maybe I should re-think that approach, but I seldom play with ensembles and play every day "solo" so holding the melody and chords together makes sense for me. And for most songs, let's face it, the chord progressions aren't hard. There are about 10 common progressions and variants, and most songs fit one so we really don't have to learn that much to know how to comp for most standards.