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He has a couple of videos on chords but the course is mainly how to improvise in the Bebop idiom
Originally Posted by 57classic
Ken
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11-16-2015 09:00 AM
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Not in the silver version... Originally Posted by 57classic
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He does have two lessons with some very detailed PDFs covering 4 inversions (all on strings 1,2,3,4) each of m7, dom7, Maj7, m7b5, 7b9, 7b5, and other extensions. I'm finding that very useful and will probably take a few weeks just in learning and integrating this material. He doesn't seem to cover other string-sets but this one is packed.
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He does a very schematic and cursory analysis on how to build drop 2 chords on strings 1234 in the introductory lesson on chords . And then says it's beyond the scope of this material, obviously. Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher
When I was taking lessons, my teacher had me go through Roni Ben Hurr's "Chordability", which was excellent. Roni is known as an acolyte of Barry Harris, but, apart from that ( he does go into a minor and major six diminished scale, of course ), "Chordability " is an excellent book on how to learn to build drop 2 drop 3 chords. The accompanying video is almost 3 hours long . It's a very thorough and logical .
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I feel weird saying this but I'm using this course as an "as I see fit" basis. That means I'm not doing it sequentially, but I'm using stuff I find interesting that makes sense to me. I feel that, even as a student, I have developed a way that is unique to me in terms of how I think about music and the process learning music.
That means, concretely, even the 106 exercises I mentioned above, you don't even need the list if you know HOW To use approach tones and enclosures and WHAT Notes to use as approach tones for target tones.
It makes me feel good that all the time I took taking lessons and private instruction, there was a message to that madness.. My teacher always said, the best student is the one that can teach him or herself By always being inquisitive and asking questions. Boy was he ever right !
Also, I have found that when I struggle with a question, musical issue or an exercise, often the problem is not with the exercise but with the fact that I don't know the instrument-fingerboard as well as I should.
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Thanks for posting, this is great!
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Not me, I've been though that route to many times...This time I'm doing exactly what the course says to do
Ken
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I am with you 100%. Navdeep can probably find success jumping around, as he sounds very experienced but I have found out that I just can't! Originally Posted by guitarplayer007
Not me, I've been though that route to many times...This time I'm doing exactly what the course says to do
Ken
I have his module one material and I plan to do every stinkin' exercise that he assigns. I really don't care about getting through the course in one year. If I think I still need it to lead me, I will buy another subscription.
I have even modified my previously adopted fingerings. I want and need to succeed this time. I am convinced I can get there, too, if I stay disciplined.
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If you ever see someone who is good at Jazz they probably had a private teacher that they stayed with a while...I find because of the internet we get pulled in so many directions that we never get good at anything....I know for me it happens all the time, but not this fing time
Ken
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Here are a couple of his young students at Richie Zellon's Miami Jazz school.
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So true. I taught guitar and later taught computer programming and you can tell by the questions being asked and the ones who are experimenting and finding what can they do with a lesson beyond just learned to play it. Even now I just recently wrote up a three page document of insights and discoveries I've made from studying and exploring ideas, got a big thumbs up from my teacher. What's on a piece of paper or a video is on 5% of the lesson the other 95% is what you discover trying to apply it and change it, and listen for it used by others. Originally Posted by NSJ
As one of my favorite teachers at GIT would say after showing us some new concept now you have "See it, Feel it, and make it your own"
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I'm very impressed with learning a lot of new things or, more precisely, putting things I knew in different perspectives. Richie, in a new video of where he's coming from, says he's put a lot of thought into what his teachers taught him: and he studied with Dennis Sandole and Charlie Banacos.
For example, it's become much less daunting to Play a single phrase or idea in all 12 Keys, his well thought out fingering system enables this.
Secondly, it's brought more focus into really understanding the fingerboard, concretely, recognizing where all the significant chord tones and intervals are for each chord.
So, despite the fact that he has designed this for musicians to think like musicians-- The very guitar specific aspects of it are very rewarding to me. it really has helped me, in a short time, in becoming even more comfortable with our difficult instrument.
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I concur 100% and I'm loving bebop calisthenics #3. Now I'm getting a glimpse at how real Bebop lines are created.
Ken
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I wonder if Richie's "bebop calisthenics" are like David Baker's "daily calisthenics" from his trilogy "How to Play Bebop" (and also his "The Bebop Era" collection of ii-V patterns).
I like Baker because there is no tab---I have to read everything and that's good for my reading skills. But I've heard a lot about Richie's approach to fingering and of course as a guitarist I realize that our instrument may be fingered various ways but not all of them are sufficiently fluid for handling bebop lines. It's looking more and more like this is gonna be my Christmas present to myself....
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Don't forget the "Candy Bars" sections, which are NOT included in the books.
the Candy Bars for Module 4 is called 24 Permeations of a 4 Part Chord Arpeggio, which examines the principles of Nicolas Slominsky, particularly his 1947 book "Thesaurus of Scales and Melodic Patterns".
People say real jazz musicians can't learn from books. Good thing nobody told Coltrane-Bird-Monk-et al. They studied this book intensively.
Trane's "Countdown" essentially is a song that utilizes the Slonimsky system.
This lesson breaks down the essentials of the Slonimsky System. Excellent stuff!
I remember my teacher mentioning this guy, Slonimksy, that his work was significant and profound, but sadly not well known. I never heard his name again.
Until I came across it here.
Applying the 9 fundamental rules defined thereto, Richie speaks of the 24 different permutations of notes available to a 4 part dominant 7th chord.
What a gold mine this is!
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I watched that the other night, almost made my head spin...lol Originally Posted by NSJ
Ken
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Some of what getting into saying what might been more of an influence on Coltrane for Countdown and Giant Steps was "Messiaen's Modes of Limited Transposition" which is another mathematical view of the twelve tones. Supposedly the Messiaen is where the idea of augmented triads a half step apart came from for augmented scale and Countdown. That's what I can remember off the top of my head. If you Google there is info on the Modes of Transposition. Originally Posted by NSJ
The 24 sounds like Bergonzi I think his first book suggests using the 24 combinations of 1, 2, 3, 4 on patterns. I know the 24 combinations are something a lot guitar and bass player do for fretboard finger exercises.
A lot math underneath the hood of music.
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Hey, Navadeep, I saw your pic and recommendation on Richie's site. All in is the way to go!
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Yeah I emailed him asking for full access, and just complimented his ideas and he asked if he could use it for his site. I said no problemo. He wasn't soliciting recommendations but liked what k had to Say. Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
nice guy, too.
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This made me realize, upon further reflection, that the "problems" I had with Sheryl Bailey's line of thinking on how to play bebop (dominant 7th bebop scale connecting three separate arpeggios) lies not with her line of thinking but my poor intellectual understanding of the language and my even more inadequate way of getting around the instrument .
I now realize that her usage of the three arpeggios was just a musical way of extracting upper structure sounds to the lines. And I now recognize that my inadequacy in performing and practicing was more a product of inadequate knowledge of the fingerboard, which resulted in musical cul-de-sacs because I did not instantly know where to go next because I did not know where all the chord tones were located.
That kind of stuff needs to be automatic, absolutely hardwired and ingrained so you don't have to think about it even.
If you're playing a note on the third string, you have to know automatically without even thinking where the b7 is located on the 6th string, where the m3 is on the 5th string, and so on. That kind of rudimentary stuff , I am more comfortable with now, where I would struggle mightily before .
I know that sounds really basic, but you have to have it down pat 100% where you don't even have to think about it .
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You summed up one of the big obstacles to being able to improvise and that is really, really, knowing the fretboard to the point that it is pretty much instinctive.
There are things that I learned as a youth that 45 years later I can still do or recall. I imagine that if I had picked up a guitar and spent countless of hours on it, I would have that instinctive insight. I did play piano and I can still play some of the songs that I learned when I was ten years old, even slightly more advanced ones like Minuet in G, which I played at a recital.
I say this to echo two important points that you allude to and that is spending enough time on the guitar to truly learn it and having good practice technique so that your time can be effective. Time is something I do not have much of, but it appears this course will finally give me the latter - and that is a solid approach to gaining some semblance of an instinct for improvising.
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For grins I wrote this out as a reference and thinking about it a lot of ways to use it as a practice tool. First just the numeric combinations then by chord tones. When energetic I'll write out the 5 note combinations for you pentatonic fans. I wrote the 3 note combo for triads which at first didn't seem that useful, but then using it for triad pairs it got interesting. Then thought why not a scale combinations of 7 notes, well when I realized it would be over 5000 combination I said, simple is good. Then 12 notes would be 479,001,600, Messiaen and Slonimsky must of had a lot of paper and pencils. So now you can be like Coltrane and spend all your time taking these mathematical combinations of notes and adding rhythms and other variations to make them musical. Originally Posted by docbop
Sorry had to put .... in because the editor strips white space.
1 2 3 4 ......R 3 5 7
1 2 4 3 ......R 3 7 5
1 3 2 4 ......R 5 3 7
1 3 4 2 ......R 5 7 3
1 4 2 3 ......R 7 3 5
1 4 3 2 ......R 7 5 3
2 1 3 4 ......3 R 5 7
2 1 4 3 ......3 R 7 5
2 3 1 4 ......3 5 R 7
2 3 4 1 ......3 5 7 R
2 4 1 3 ......3 7 R 5
2 4 3 1...... 3 7 5 R
3 1 2 4 ......5 R 3 7
3 1 4 2...... 5 R 7 3
3 2 1 4 ......5 3 R 7
3 2 4 1 ......5 3 7 R
3 4 1 2 ......5 7 R 3
3 4 2 1 ......5 7 3 R
4 1 2 3 ......7 R 3 5
4 1 3 2...... 7 R 5 3
4 2 1 3...... 7 3 R 5
4 2 3 1...... 7 3 5 R
4 2 3 1...... 7 2 5 R
4 2 1 3 ......7 3 R 5Last edited by docbop; 11-21-2015 at 03:02 PM.
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FYC (for your convenience) or at least in this case, for the convenience of those who might want to "play" with this concept while at play with your guitar.
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Those are the best recommendations! Originally Posted by NSJ
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Re: Doc's Intervals, another pattern worth running through the cycle is 1 3 5 b5. If you start on C, that's C E G Gb;
next comes F, which is F A C Cb B); next comes Bb, which is Bb D F E, and so on. It's a nice pattern. There are lots of patterns but this is one you that sounds cool! (Not all of 'em do.)
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