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I am a school teacher off during the summertime and my trio is often asked to do weekday gigs during the day at a restaurant or winery during the summer. We usually have to turn these gigs down because the bass player and drummer cannot make it since they are at work.
Before turning down another gig I am considering doing what some vocal duos and acoustic acts in the area are currently doing - using a backing track. The owner at one establishment who I know for years, said, "that's a great idea", and is willing to book a few dates immediately. Using the DJ's Karaoke I once did about 15 to 20 minutes entertaining patrons last summer when my guys were late to a gig because of a traffic accident. (I played the head of some tunes on my guitar direct through the house system and I was surprised how good it sounded.)
Here's the thing, if I was able to play the gig without a band or backing track I'd do it in a second, but I am not that accomplished of a player. The reason I am considering making the leap to go this route is because it would be a fun way to spend a summer afternoon and make some extra money. But I also feel really weird about doing this and the potential for some respected musicians I know to see me doing something I have always thought was "not-cool" could prove to be embarrassing.
So my question is: Has anyone else struggled with this dilemma? If so, how did you resolve it? I am also curious to know how most players on this site feel about this issue.Last edited by NorthForkJazzGuitar; 03-12-2016 at 08:16 PM.
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02-17-2014 12:45 AM
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There's another thread on this very topic going pretty strong on the forum right now. People have extraordinarily strong opinions about it. Can't remember which page, but if you search for "backing track" you'll find it.
Personal opinion is that it's super cheesy, and I'd never do it. I'll also admit that when I see other people doing it, I'm generally pretty inwardly critical. So, if you're worried about what other jazz musicians will think of you, sample size of one (me) would not be impressed.
That being said, if you want to do it, have a good opportunity, and it sounds fun, go for it. It's just music. You can always change your mind and laugh about it later if it sucks.
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If you're playing at restaurants and wineries then why not? Especially during the day time. How likely is it that there are jazz musicians in your audience and even if there are then who cares? Most of the things that musicians think are super-cheesy regular bystanders don't think twice about and they will probably admire you for having the guts to go up there by yourself. Do what you want to do, it's better than not playing at all and I'm sure the customers will appreciate it. Isn't entertaining people the whole point of being a musician?
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Sure, everyone likes wine and cheese!
Originally Posted by Jdudeo
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What's "not cool" about making money and having fun? Do it.
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I think the comments are pretty accurate. Musicians don't like it. Non musicians, they seem fine with it.
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I think the comments are pretty accurate. For restuarants and coffee house type gigs... Musicians don't like it. Non musicians, they seem fine with it.
For larger gigs, I don't think it ever works for anyone.
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My position on performance enhancing technology has softened a bit over the years. I've no objection to people using a looper (though I'd prefer them to play all the loops in performance, not use pre-recorded loops).
I have an objection to backing tracks for gigs. The only one who benefits from this is the venue owner. They get what they perceive as full sounding music, for less money than a full band. It's more work for the musicians to program/pre-record all of the music, and I feel it deprives the audience of the good sound and interplay of live musicians.
If a venue is paying for one musician, that's what they should get.
Frankly, we're at an advantage as guitarists; we can do solo gigs with the proper prep. Pity the poor saxophonist who needs an accompanist.
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Except for other musicians, regular people don't care about jazz one way or the other, do it if you need the extra money and can get away with it. We live in an era where DJ's get hired for functions more than musicians. You seem to live in one of those strange areas that has more work than musicians.
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Once I was with my teacher at an outdoor bar - (with tv screens mounted that played Italian game shows with girls in bikinis) - anyway, they had a duo (pianist & congas, both doing vocals) playing with backing tracks. Quite a complex set-up with the backing band on midi files, and even backup vocals to go with the duo while they were singing - the style was latin jazz/samba. So the pianist starts his solo and he sounded pretty good, when my teacher noticed he was miming on the keys. My teacher walked up to him while he was soloing and said to his face 'you're miming' after which he leaned over and pressed down on one of the keys several times and no sound came out. Mr latin jazz piano virtuoso just stood there for 10 secs not knowing what to do - then he snapped out of it and got back in character. I remember they smiled a lot at the audience when they played (?). Probably charged a shitload for the gig as well, judging by all the equipment they had.
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listen to your conscience, man.
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there's a local guy here that plays 2 or 3 times a week at restaurants as a solo act. He also uses a vocal harmonizer. He does a great job. I guess its better than not playing. Look him up on Youtube, his name if Frank Ball.
He plays about an hour away from where I live and on occasion I go hear him play.
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Backing tracks AND miming?? Well as long as everyone was entertained... pffftt Originally Posted by 3625
I'd bet there's a lot of that crap going on and I don't like it.
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I just want to be certain I've got this right:
You have jazz gigs.
Your regular people can't make them.
Instead of hiring other musicians you want to play with tracks.
I'm having trouble adding it all up. Maybe you're a lot more loyal to this group of musicians than they are to you!
Just to be clear: I'd be hiring different musicians and playing the jobs with them. Because for me, the essence of both joy and growth in music is working with other people, and you can triple that for jazz. Tracks are for practice at my house.
Heck, you live about 45 from a school with a decent jazz program -- you could probably hire a full sixteen-piece band for the cost of two large pizzas.
What a great problem to have! Has gigs, needs to find players! Yessah!
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I think 3625's example was the worst case scenario, but that probably doesn't actually happen too much. But a pianist who uses backing tracks should raise a big flag anyways. It's the easiest instrument to self accompany. I would never use a backing track. I have been considering (for a few years now) the possibility of using a looper where I create all the loops on the spot, but I haven't actually done it yet. Even that makes me a little uncomfortable. I'm fairly proficient at playing solo guitar though, so I have no real excuse to use backing tracks. It's certainly easier to blow over some prerecorded changes than it is to make and perform a solo guitar arrangement though....So the main motivation for me to use a looper or backing track would be: laziness. The main reason for a restaurant owner to pay me to play with a backing track/looper would be he's a cheap bastard. The people who lose out the most here are my fellow musicians, and to some degree the audience as they are robbed of the experience of completely live music.
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I've been recruited by an acoustic guitar and bass roots/rock duo to do some support on slide guitar and steel. Lately, the leader thinks adding drum tracks would really expand the repertoire, because the gigs are in places that barely have room now that we're a trio, let alone a quartet. I let him know that he'd have to replace me if he went that route, because I'll have nothing to do with it.
However, it really is a conflict if you are desperate for cash as most working musicians are, and you feel compelled there's no other option to compete for work. Some guys have mouths to feed. I hate that it has come down to this, and most employers and their patrons could give a shit.
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who cares about that.some respected musicians I know to see me doing something I have always thought was "not-cool" could prove to be embarrassing.
Not me that's for sure. I don't know about you, but I'm not cool anyway. who gives a crap what a person who will never hire you anyway thinks.
I play in a bass / guitar duo. I use a looper. Some musicians like it, some don't. I don't care. sound of guitar and bass is just too small for me. I need some harmony going on.
I've tried playing live using tracks, like Irb and some I made myself. I don't like it, but not for any ethical or other reason, I just don't like the feel and the sound.
If you like it, do it.
as far as hiring others, easier said than done,
you'll call ten people to get one to say ok, they bitch about the money, the location, whether or not you're good enough for them to play with, (who have you played with? who's your teacher? do I know you?)
they won't know your tunes, you'll end up playing Georgia, and suchlike for your whole set, they might well be jerks, they might call the day before and say, sorry got a better gig, they might not show up, etc.
I 've tried, it's definitely not worth the aggravation.
And if someone looks down their nose at you for this, they are musical snobs, probably nothing you do will be any good as far as they are concerned anyway.
and if someone says you are taking jobs away from someone, I say B.S.
I don't think it's my or your job to get anyone a gig. I worked hard to get the gigs I have. I'll do them the way the venue manager and I want it to be done.
I can assure you the average person that is paying you to play, couldn't care less about this.
finally, look at all of the showcase recordings at this site. 95 % of them are with backing tracks or a looper.
why is it suddenly no good to do, when you play in public?
just another phoney jazz musician problemLast edited by markf; 02-21-2014 at 10:53 AM.
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If we're talking about playing Jazz using backing tracks, there will be no improvised interaction between musicians and this is the main part of Jazz. The most important part in my view.
But, if you just want to play solo gigs with backing tracks to earn some money, that's ok, it's show biz.
Just my opinion.
Guy
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I'm of at least two minds on this issue. I'm home recording a CD of jazz standards, a mix of Brazilian tunes (Jobim, Bonfa) and ballads with a few uptempo songs as well. The purpose is to 'showcase' my guitar and vocals mainly, as well as my arrangements. But there are a few problems. Percussion is a big one, especially for the bossa nova style tunes. My choices include the preset percussion tracks to a click in my Korg D1200 recorder, creating percussion tracks via my Sibelius software, or using my Yamaha keyboards to create a percussion tracks as prerecorded. In addition, with Sibelius I can orchestrate strings, piano, or bass tracks and alter performance parameters such as rubato and swing.
In this case, every note is either played live on guitar or piano or written by me using Sibelius software. And no question they enhance the experience of the song. As for interaction, the guitar is always played live, interacting with rhythm tracks or strings, for example. Over many years of work I have created a library of arrangements that I use as a "set list" for practice nightly. And how is it much different from looping? I'd say my arrangements are superior to be honest.
Is it the same as playing with pro class jazz musicians every night? Of course not. But can it be done in a classy way that enhances the musical experience over a soloist in the corner of a nice bar? I believe the answer could be "yes". To be honest, in that situation where you watch a musician performing live on guitar and vocals, if you hear violins, check your drink or figure that the musician is trying to enhance the experience. Given that every note comes from my hands, heart, and mind, I don't feel like I'm betraying some artificial jazz ethic.
I mean, wake up, Dorothy! You're not in Kansas any more! This isn't the Thirties and Forties where musicians were a dime a dozen playing in dives around the American cities entertaining a Depression and war era public in speakeasies. This is an era where Beyonce performs essentially a lap dance on the Grammies and lip syncs the national anthem or whatever. Asking for purity and artistic integrity today in a world of make-believe and self-indulgent 'artists' is maybe too much.
As much as I would love to have a ready pool of talented, vibrant artists to play music with on hand anytime, the reality is that gigs are scarce these days, don't pay a lot to begin with, and if you have ever tried to play and rehearse regularly with band members older than their teens, you know egos and idiosyncrasies are not easy to manage, even if you can find truly competent musicians to play with. It is much easier to haul my Macbook and guitar and mic to a gig than a band. I'm not twenty any more, and in fact, I'm recording for the purpose of demonstrating what I can bring to the bandstand or session recording. In other words, I am also in it for remuneration if possible. To help pay the bills, which is a hell of a motivation. If someone would pay me to entertain their private parties or provide some low key trio style jazz in a nice bar or winery, that is fine with me.
Just gotta remember to keep the laptop charged....
Last edited by targuit; 02-20-2014 at 06:32 PM.
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Not exactly on topic, but maybe in the ballpark-here's what Frank Zappa had to say about his Synclavier vs. live musicians:
"Anything you make up, can be played or typed by the machine. One of the things I'm using it for, is the creation of complex rhythms, that I can have executed accurately by different groups of instruments. With the Synclavier you can have every imaginable group of instruments play the most complex passages because the little fellows inside will always play it with a millisecond precision degree... Some things live musicians do and machines don't are good and some are bad. One of the good things live musicians do is improvise. They respond to the moment, and can play with more expression than a machine. (Not that a machine knows no expression, but I have to type in a lot of numbers to instantly get the same amount of expression as of a well rehearsed band)...Machines don't get drunk, stoned, or fired and don't need help to carry their families with them from here to everywhere in cases of emergency."
More on topic, I have used IrealB or Aebersold backing tracks just to play for family and friends at house parties. As for real gigs, I'm not yet to the point where I'm I gigging again (used to gig a lot many years ago but that was a lot more straight blues and just a little jazz). If I was gigging, I probably wouldn't be interested in using backing tracks. But I'm certainly not going to judge anyone for doing so. However, I also would be less likely to pay to eat and drink in a place with half-live music vs. a place with fully live music. And I might mention it to the owner of the place. As for loopers, I once saw a classical guitarist (Ben Verdery) do some really cool improv stuff using a looper for his encore.
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I have way too much fun playing solo to ever consider tracks.
I have started to practice singing though. Seems a lot of places like that. Good thing I was blessed with Chet Baker's pipes. Now to get them to sound like young, good looking Chet and not strung out, toothless Chet
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Sigh... I can see it now, live music reduced to one person with their backing tracks to save the 'hassle' of a duo, trio whatever... "Oh look Mabel, there's live music here! That bassist has really nice backing tracks don't you think?" :P
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Ooh, I'm tempted to do that! Create backing tracks with everything on it, but play the bass parts live!
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Indeed. At some very transparent point, one must ask, what's the point of ANY live music if the performers don't even care about live music? All you have to do is hit a space bar on the computer keyboard, and iTunes will stream any canned music you need. Why bother with actual musicians then? Originally Posted by Dave70
Plus: guitar is a polyphonic instrument. Even if we are playing solo, the orchestra we need is right there, at our fingertips. Let's take advantage of this beautiful fact.
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jazz started as entertainment
but has turned into some kind of higher calling with all kinds of rules and regulations.
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