Sight Reading

[Scrybe]

I have a horrible habit of forgetting the key signature if it isn't in C major. I'm fine hitting accidentals in C major, but if its in G# I forget that its in G# part way through and then it goes tits up, esp if they put accidentals in...

Not sure why this is happening tho.

Any tips on how to correct? It's not so bad if, say, we start in G#, have no accidentals, and stay in one place on the FB. It's the moving around and the accidentals that get me.

I'm not sure if I need to know the FB better, or know the #/b of each key more fluidly, or both. I think more the latter, as I'm finding I read lines and go "G# G# G# D.....Doh!" quite a bit. Would it help if I just read (not playing) some music in these keys and named the notes as I'm reading them? I thought I had this down. Seems not. Not at all...

[cosmic gumbo]

If you can't read in all keys, you aren't really a sight reader. Reading only C major won't get you very far with jazz, half of the stuff is written in Bb and Eb. Get a Real Book and start working on it.

[nomelite]

use the circle the fifths as a tool, and start working from F (1 flat) and G (one sharp) and so on.And excellent progressive method in reading is William Leavitt's A Modern Method for Guitar.

[Scrybe]

Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo

If you can't read in all keys, you aren't really a sight reader. Reading only C major won't get you very far with jazz, half of the stuff is written in Bb and Eb. Get a Real Book and start working on it.

That's kind of my point....I've been practicing reading and playing at the same time, but I forget which key I'm in about halfway through the piece if the key sig has # or b in it. Or, rather, I forget to # or b the requisite notes. So, if it involves a position shift or an accidental, I have to pause to work out what I'm doing. It's one thing me knowing that A major has 3 sharps in it, it's another for me to remember halfway through a piece that the F I'm reading is actually an F#.

[timscarey]

It just takes practice. Are you reading in open position? 5th position? or do you move your hand to a good position for the key?

Do you think in terms of scale degrees in the key while you read? find "DO", etc....

Also, what are you reading in the key of G#? that is a very uncommon key, and a very difficult one to read on any instrument.

[Reg]

There are know mechanical tricks to being aware of what key your in... takes practice and time. It's a little more difficult now a days... many composers, including myself, rarely use key signatures and most of earlier material does. It's part of being a musician. If you hear the wrong notes when you play them, your close. I get calls for lots of gigs because I read and understand music well. There's nothing like live gigs to help you get your reading skills together... Reading is one of the many skills of being a musician and requires organized practice, or play lots of gigs where you have to read... you'll start to remember the key signatures. Good luck Reg

[GodinFan]

Originally Posted by timscarey

It just takes practice. Are you reading in open position? 5th position? or do you move your hand to a good position for the key?

Do you think in terms of scale degrees in the key while you read? find "DO", etc....

Also, what are you reading in the key of G#? that is a very uncommon key, and a very difficult one to read on any instrument.

G# minor, yes...There really should be no reason to ever see written music in G# Major, though it's theoretically possible.

[Scrybe]

Originally Posted by timscarey

It just takes practice. Are you reading in open position? 5th position? or do you move your hand to a good position for the key?

Do you think in terms of scale degrees in the key while you read? find "DO", etc....

Also, what are you reading in the key of G#? that is a very uncommon key, and a very difficult one to read on any instrument.

Reading in open position using the Bill Leavitt Reading Studies For Guitar (the first one). I'm not thinking of a moveable-DO, at least no explicitly, I'm thinking the note names as I read them, but I know when I hit a wrong note and usually slide automatically into the right one (not good enough in the long term, I know). Im not seeing a 5th on the page when I see C-G, I'm seeing C-G, then translating it into "a 5th". I'm pretty sure that's slowing me down some on playing what I read. How would I go about incorporating the moveable-DO into my practices? Surely it's still important to also think of the individual note names, and not just the intervals, even if I use the intervals as my main guide when reading? The G# was a randomly generated example key, rather than a concrete example, was musing on what the key sig for that would look like while typing.

Originally Posted by Reg

There are know mechanical tricks to being aware of what key your in... takes practice and time. It's a little more difficult now a days... many composers, including myself, rarely use key signatures and most of earlier material does. It's part of being a musician. If you hear the wrong notes when you play them, your close. I get calls for lots of gigs because I read and understand music well. There's nothing like live gigs to help you get your reading skills together... Reading is one of the many skills of being a musician and requires organized practice, or play lots of gigs where you have to read... you'll start to remember the key signatures. Good luck Reg

I am totally green to reading dots, so I understand it'll take time and daily practice. I just want to make sure my practice is as efficient as possible. Right now, I couldn't read for a gig at all (besides looking at chord charts). In addition to the Leavitt, I'm also using the drum text, Syncopation, to practice reading rhythms on guitar. I progress there much faster than doing pitch-plus-rhythm, so I figure it'll make the pitch-plus-rhythm side of things move along a bit more smoothly.

I want to get good at reading so that, in the future, I can get some of those reading gigs, but also for general musicianship - I can notate stuff now, but it's a total chore, v. time consuming, and I'm hoping the more I read, the swifter notation will become for me. Plus, it means playing with my eyes off the instrument, and I''m hoping it will train my ear some, too, or my ear-hand co-ordination (i.e. the only references I have for playing it correctly or making a mistake are the printed page and the sounds that come out from my amp).

Right now, I'm playing/reading at 60bpm and making a few mistakes. I'm sure those mistakes will increase as I get further into the book.

Also, I'm unsure what fingering to use if e.g. it says to play an E note on the 4th string followed by an A note on the 3rd string. At 60bpm, it's no problem as I have time to use any finger I want, but I'm feeling like my hands are sometimes getting into difficult positions as I'm playing through these studies. I'm guessing finger-choice on something like this depends a lot on what you're playing next, but I'm having trouble reading ahead in unfamiliar keys and trying to plan future hand movements while executing whatever I'm executing at that time and listening to myself. If that makes sense. Are there any guidelines for making that easier? Or is it totally trial and error?

[timscarey]

Originally Posted by Scrybe

Reading in open position using the Bill Leavitt Reading Studies For Guitar (the first one). I'm not thinking of a moveable-DO, at least no explicitly,

and I''m hoping it will train my ear some, too, or my ear-hand co-ordination (i.e. the only references I have for playing it correctly or making a mistake are the printed page and the sounds that come out from my amp).

Right now, I'm playing/reading at 60bpm and making a few mistakes. I'm sure those mistakes will increase as I get further into the book.

Also, I'm unsure what fingering to use if e.g. it says to play an E note on the 4th string followed by an A note on the 3rd string. At 60bpm, it's no problem as I have time to use any finger I want, but I'm feeling like my hands are sometimes getting into difficult positions as I'm playing through these studies. I'm guessing finger-choice on something like this depends a lot on what you're playing next, but I'm having trouble reading ahead in unfamiliar keys and trying to plan future hand movements while executing whatever I'm executing at that time and listening to myself. If that makes sense. Are there any guidelines for making that easier? Or is it totally trial and error?

Yeah, the DO thing is all about the ears more than fingerings, ynless you move your hand to the key, since you are in open position.... all of your fingerings will be made easier if you do this....

Look the key signature, identify the key, using proper open position fingerings, play the major scale from the low-E up to A (5th fret on the high-e) and back down, (live with the scale for about 5 minutes). Then, play all of the diatonic open position chords (triads) for that key, including the diminished built on the 7 (this will be a voicing for the 5 chord later)

After doing that, you've pretty much played all of the fingerings you are going to get for that key. Hence, you are sufficiently warmed up to read your best..... remember to count

[Ausjazz]

With the fingering example wouldn't you just roll your finger down. In terms of fingering and the Leavitt books, I suggest you try and get common fingerings for each position (the book discusses this), then you'll start to get good recognition between your hands and your head. Sure, there'll be times you have to move a little in and out, but once you've got a broader system for how to fret notes you'll be better off.

I'm not that great at reading, but I've worked through the first Leavitt book and am up to no. 2, I'm finding it gets easier...

[S_R_S5]

The way I learned to read in all keys is get a baptist hymnal and practice one key a day. in no time (like a week) you'll be comfortable in all the keys. The reason for the hymnal is it is so simple, all quarter notes and eigth notes. no tricky rythems. you only have to worry about the notes.
After you are comfortable in all keys with a hymnal practice sight reading songs out of the real book.

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Oh and forgetting sharps and flats, just play the scale you are going to use before you play the song and unless there is an accidental do not leave that scale.

[Reg]

Hey Scrybe...sounds like your in good direction. Keep up the rhythmic studies, there almost more important than the pitch... To read well you need to be able to recognize rhythmic phrases so you can stay ahead with pitches. Part of sight reading on guitar is to be able to recognize what position you should be in when reading. But you still need to get the notes out even if your not in position, it just makes the phrasing more difficult to pull off. It will come with experience.
Practice reading faster than you can and try and to stay in time even if you can't get all the notes out. Get the easy parts. Phrases usually have target notes, aim for those. Get use to staying in time. Get the rhythms even if you get some of the notes wrong. Next try and start to see what's coming...It doesn't just happen, you need to practice seeing ahead. If you have heads to tunes you know, sight read those sometimes and work on hearing the notes you see, you already know the rhythms. Eventually you do need to be able to hear most of what you read before you actually play it... or it becomes to mechanical... but that's probable down the line... If you have more ?'s ... try and pick one or two points to discuss...Best Reg

[Sailor]

I like the hymnal response. I always say to take simple songs, even kids songs, and sight read them on the guitar in a few different positions. I aklso sight read many tunes on the Soprano recorder. It helps to just read, read, read,...it's like exercise...you get better all the time in looooong sloooow increments.\

Sailor