Which 3

[oilywrag]

If you wanted to play three note chords when comping.When faced with m7b5 which three notes would you use?? R,3,7 R,b5,7 3,b5,7

Cheers Tom

[Scrybe]

Depends if there's a bass player or not. If there is I tend to go for 3, b5, 7. If There's no bassist, I'll go R, b5, 7 or R, b5 3 - Dbmaj7 and Dhalfdim7 only differ in their root note, so you include that to tell them apart, and I'm inclined to include the b5 since it seems key to the sound of the chord to my ears, leaving a choice of 3 or 7 for the final note. 3 gives you the minor sound, sound, while 7 gives you, well, the 7th sound. Dunno off the top of my head which one I'd opt for - may depend on the context of the progression and which notes I'm playing next.

Hope that helps some.

[bako]

Yes to all three choices plus more when you include possibilities with 9, 11, 13. What additional notes are being played by the bass and melody instrument will influence my choices and as Scrybe points out the context, what came before and where to next.

I also like working with 2 note voicings. Like 3 notes they are light, fluid and leave lots to the imagination.

[Scrybe]

2 notes? I might have to try that....tried three with my band, but we're a quartet, and I didn't think I was giving our sax player enough of a foundation. Think paring down to two might really scare him, but it would be seriously useful practice for when I sit in at jam nights and stuff where there's keys present (have really learned that keys players comp at their most sensitive when accompanying themselves...lmao). Do you still aim for good voice leading with that? I'm guessing so, but wondered if there's anything in particular to bear in mind beyond what generally applies to good comping. Thx.

[bako]

Scrybe,

In a parallel universe each band member doesn't need to hear an overt statement of the foundation to feel the harmony and song structure. On this world chords of 2 and 3 notes are a virtual big band.

Every band/musician is different. It is good to be a supportive team player and also to challenge people to expand their comfort zone and hopefully they can do the same for you.

With 2 notes voice leading is perhaps even more important because you can hear each tone so clearly.
The basic choices are:
1. 2 notes from 1 3 5 7
2. 1 note from 1 3 5 7 and the other from 9 11 13
3. 2 notes from 9 11 13

You can also use passing tones and multiple 2 note chords to fulfill one chord type as well as voicings of various sub motions.
These perhaps are more like broken 3 and 4 note chords but I think of them as part of the same package.

The contrapuntal motions (parallel, oblique and contrary) are easier to control with just 2 voices.

[Scrybe]

Thx for that, bako. Will def be working it up into my regular practice routine and trying it out on my meagre repertoire (growing daily!). Will probably test it out first when playing with a keys player, then try it with more experienced players than my sax dude, and then try him on it. He's good, he's just not that good yet (and nor am I...).

[RunningBeagle]

Good thread. I haven't explored this much. Here are some ideas for harmonizing every chord tone. They are all good if your raise the 9. I am doing this as much to contribute as to give bookmark some ideas for myself :P

I will use the top 4 strings, F#-7b5 b/c of inner urge, and spell top to bottom.

Root -

R, 7, b5: F#, E, C - extremely common, sounds good.
R, b5, 9: F#, C, G# - top three notes of root position D7b5 drop two voicing. Better as a 4 note voicing
R, b5, 11: F#, C, B - top three notes of 1st inversion Cmaj7b5. Nice sound. Also works as a 4 note voicing

Natural 9 -

9, b5, b3: G#, C, A - top three notes of A-maj7 2nd inversion drop 2. Remember that A melodic minor = F-7b5 with natural 9 (phrygian #2, whatever). Sounds better as 4 note voicing.
9, b13, b5: G#, D, C - top three notes of D7b5 1st inversion drop two. Sounds great voice-led to R, b5, 11: F#, C, B
9, R, b13: G#, F#, D - First voicing of Root section slid up a whole step.

b3 -

b3, b7, b5: A, E, C - Amin triad in 1st inversion. Also top three notes of F#-7b5 root position drop 2 (or 3rd inversion A-maj7, which you wouldn't play as a 4 note voicing because it sounds bad).

11 -

11, R, b5, (b3):

11, b7, b5, (R or 9):

b5 -

b5, R, b7, (9):

b5, 9, b7, (b3):

I'll come back and finish this later. I have work to do and this is taking too long.

[bako]

Using permutations these are the possible 3 note combinations from extensions 1 3 5 7 9 11 13

1 3 5-----1 3 7-----1 3 9-----1 3 11-----1 3 13

1 5 7-----1 5 9-----1 5 11-----1 5 13

1 7 9-----1 7 11-----1 7 13

1 9 11-----1 9 13

1 11 13

3 5 7-----3 5 9-----3 5 11-----3 5 13

3 7 9-----3 7 11-----3 7 13

3 9 11-----3 9 13

3 11 13

5 7 9-----5 7 11-----5 7 13

5 9 11-----5 9 13

5 11 13

7 9 11-----7 9 13

7 11 13

9 11 13

Each of these has 6 inversions
example:
1 3 b7//3 b7 1//b7 1 3//1 b7 3//3 1 b7//b7 3 1//
CEBb//EBbC//BbCE//CBbE//ECBb//BbEC

As RunningBeagle is doing you have to work this stuff out and teach your ear what each note brings to the table.

[wizard3739]

I would probably go for b3 b5 b7 as an arpeggio to start with. ie, for a Dm7b5, F Ab C.

wiz

[Reg]

I just worry about my lead notes and fill in as needed. Typically a -7b5 is going some where eventually (usually has sub-dom or dom function)If used in typical situations the b5 is heard or implied whether you actually voice it or not so choice of actual pitches is not that important. Usually I only worry about actual pitches and their resolutions when the changes are not what one would expect. I mean when you see Bb- to Eb7 to Ab-, your choice of chord tones and tensions is pretty obvious , and you probable would play more than just three chords. But if you had Bb-7b5 , Eb7#9 to B13sus. I would need to voice the b5 to the #9 and on to the 13. My point is context dictates choice of pitches. Be able to voice all chord tones and tensions as top note and go from there. ( if you don't know all the pitches, work it out, there are only so many choices for each chord) A pitch not heard is only wrong when your trying to imply something different than the typical usage. Reg

[jack_gvr]

Originally Posted by Scrybe

2 notes? I might have to try that....tried three with my band, but we're a quartet, and I didn't think I was giving our sax player enough of a foundation. Think paring down to two might really scare him... Do you still aim for good voice leading with that? I'm guessing so...

Originally Posted by bako

Scrybe,
In [that ideal and wonderful] parallel universe each band member doesn't need to hear an overt statement of the foundation to feel the harmony and song structure. On this world chords of 2 and 3 notes are a virtual big band.
Every band/musician is different. ...

Interesting subject (slightly oblique to thread...) I've been listening to Chet Baker / Gerry Mulligan, a no-chord band (two horns, bass, drums) and I like it. It's a contrapuntal thing... two horns playing with interactive voice leading. I've also played with guys who encouraged me to play fewer notes and listen more, when apparently I annoyed them by bashing away with full chords. I suppose that the opportunity to play fewer notes might depend on the context, whether you are locked into the expectation of providing a sort of continuous strumming noise in a more or less commercial application, or if you have the freedom in the situation and context to explore spaces between the sounds and the meaning of single notes in relationship to a mutually imagined harmonic backdrop, where a note serves as a comment rather than a dissertation. So in this place, B-half-dim might be just an F and a higher E - the "F" being representative of the entire harmonic content B-D-F-A, and the "E" 11th being an oblique comment on the 16th century suspension cadence that is the ancestor of "Bm7-5 > E7".

[randalljazz]

errr...chet baker...

[jack_gvr]

Originally Posted by randalljazz

errr...chet baker...

err.. duh.
changed it.

[Little Jay]

If you play with a bassplayer and a pianist, the third and the 7 of a chord suffice in most cases is my experience.

If you play solo I play the full chord.

If you are the only chordal instrument but there's a bassplayer I leave out the root.

If the sheet doesn't indicate any alterations to the chord, be carefull to add them, they might get in the way of the melody, the soloist or the other chordal instrument. (I once played with a pianist who added a 4 to almost every 7-chord... try to add your #5 or b9 then.. yikes!)

So the best advice would be: use your ears to determine what sounds best I guess.