Harmonic Major, and it's modes...

mr. beaumont · #2 02-04-2008, 06:58 AM

actually, i think the seventh mode is the locrian bb7...

sixth mode looks like it would be lydian, and augmented 5, and it has a raised 2...so maybe lydian augmented #2? i dunno, i'm no good at these crazy scales...

czgibson · #3 02-04-2008, 07:30 AM

So is the harmonic major just a major scale with a b6? Never heard of this one.

Jazzaluk · #4 02-04-2008, 07:51 AM

Sometimes it's counterproductive to clog the brain with all these modes since they have limited application. The chords are a continuously moving background and trying to think of a scale application during improve is very inefficient IMO.

For example in the tune All Of Me the first change in the progression goes:
C ///| % |E7///|... etc

The E7 introduces a G# in the progression which is by coincidence the CMaj Harmonic. But it is much easier to just think about how the chord has modified the CMaj pitch collection (tonal center), in this case lowering the 6th, rather than trying to attach a new name to the the scale.

I think this approach is much better when trying to analyse a progression and much easier to apply in an improv.

derek · #5 02-04-2008, 09:56 AM

I wouldn't assign a locrian name to a 6th mode, as it seems inconsistent with naming conventions. I have used Harmonic Major before, but haven't moded it out, and because of this, haven't used it's modes before.

Some interesting scales though. Which do you find useful? What kind of stuff are you using them over?

m78w · #6 03-02-2008, 02:16 PM

Hey
A great book for this type of stuff is Gary Keller's scales for jazz book. In there he names the modes of Harmonic Major like so:

1 Ionian b6
2 Dorian b5
3 Phrygian b4
4 Lydian b3
5 Mixolydian b2
6 Aeolian b1
7 Locrian b7 or bb7 depending on how you want to think about it.

The only modes out of this scale I like to use, and most guys, is the first over a Maj7 chord to give it a more modern flavor and the 5th mode, 7b9.

Though these modes are out and weird even traditional guys used them, you can find examples in Johnny Smith's solos, on It Could Happen to You for example, over Fmaj7 in bar 11 of the solo.

There he uses it because the bar before was Bbm7-Eb7, so the Db keeps the mood of the Bbm7 chord going over the Fmaj7 chord.

MW

Dennoow · #7 03-12-2008, 01:14 PM

I use it over a minor ii-V resolving to a major I chord. That's why it was created in the first place I think ;-) But it's a hard one to get into for me because it sounds really dissonant! But then again, I had troubles getting into melodic minor too so..

merseybeat · #8 03-03-2009, 12:18 PM

I have been studying the Joe Pass jazz jazz lines DVD and although he never mentions it; He uses it all the time throughout the video. The nearest he comes to a mention is "I like to include the b6th"! Actually I have started sweeping in and out with both the Harmonic Major and the Major scale whilst noting the Major Arpeggio.. For example.. Over a D Major7 chord i see the DMaj7 arpeggio and play around it using both the D harmonic major scale and the D Major scale!

It gives you a sort of "ear tease"!

Also has anyone noticed that b6th also appears in "Can't Take My Eyes off You" horn riff over the basic diatonic ii V I chords?

Eddie

JohnW400 · #9 03-03-2009, 12:43 PM

Mick Goodrick did an article on this scale back when he was doing a monthly column for Guitar Player.

I love this scale and use more than just one or two modes. A couple of things I'd like to point out are:

The Phrygian version works great againt a 7#9 b13 or a 7 b9 b13. In C , using E phrygian, E F G Ab (G#) B C D or 1, b9, #9, 3, 5, b13, 7.

The Lydian b 3 ? If you flat the 3rd you get a minor. To me calling it lydian is confusing. It's really a jazz melodic minor scale with a raised 4th, Everytime you hear this pattern on a minor chord, think this scale

G#-A, B-C, D#-E, G#-A. (the only note missing is F#. The root scale is E harmonic major).

Harmonically speaking, this scale gives some interesting quartal chords since the 6th is flat, it throws a "b4th" into the mix so you can come up with this voicing:

E, Ab, D, G, C, F. followed by F, B, E, Ab, D ,G (E7#/b9 over F).

merseybeat · #10 03-08-2009, 04:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m78w

Hey
A great book for this type of stuff is Gary Keller's scales for jazz book. In there he names the modes of Harmonic Major like so:

1 Ionian b6
2 Dorian b5
3 Phrygian b4
4 Lydian b3
5 Mixolydian b2
6 Aeolian b1
7 Locrian b7 or bb7 depending on how you want to think about it.

The only modes out of this scale I like to use, and most guys, is the first over a Maj7 chord to give it a more modern flavor and the 5th mode, 7b9.

Though these modes are out and weird even traditional guys used them, you can find examples in Johnny Smith's solos, on It Could Happen to You for example, over Fmaj7 in bar 11 of the solo.

There he uses it because the bar before was Bbm7-Eb7, so the Db keeps the mood of the Bbm7 chord going over the Fmaj7 chord.

MW

OMG I have just realized what I am doing! We have a jam going that hangs on the CMaj7 Chord for a fair while. Now the tension I was "Trying" to refer to earlier was the b6. What I am hearing in my head is a G7b9 chord resolving on a CMaj7 so I am playing around with a G7b9 arp and resolving on the Cmaj7 even though the band are not actually playing the G7b9 chord! I now find I am doing this all the time with most chords without realizing it!

Now I'm doing the same using the Alt scale on the V and resolving on a Major I.

(Please excuse me as I use this forum to dump my tired brain, and to keep it all in check of course).

Kind regards

Eddie

Bailz · #11 03-08-2009, 05:35 AM

i use the harmonic minor scale loads. for stuff like minor swing, a night in tunisia, naima even it can be really useful. Its like the melodic minor scale to my ear in that using the scales for horizintal playing can sometimes ousnd a little dull but the arpeggios and licks you can make out of it are, as Ted Greene says, "absolute knockouts!"

Bailz · #12 03-08-2009, 07:10 AM

ah. forgive my stupidity!

JohnW400 · #13 03-08-2009, 09:13 AM

Pseudo,

Sorry , I made a mistake. I was thinking jazz melodic minor which is like a dorian mode with a raised 7 but wrote dorian.

A B C D E F# G#
A B C D# E F# G#

I still stand by my original post as far as Lydian is major and a flat 3rd is minor.

Anyway, still a great scale

RyanM · #14 05-05-2009, 01:48 PM

Hi, first post here but I wanted to let you guys know that, there is a website here where this guy has a good explanation of harmonic major, and other scales, and the theory behind their construction. He doesn't talk about modes much, but you might find this site interesting.

MissMisstreater · #15 06-06-2009, 11:39 AM

i named them

harmonic major
dorian b5
phrygian b4
lydian minor (nice ring to it)
mixolydian b2
lydian augmented #2
locrian diminished

they seemed the most logical to me

Providence · #16 01-03-2012, 07:45 AM

hey all! try using aeolian b1 mentioned by m78w (lydian augmented #2 mentioned my missmisstreater) over Maj7 chords, you'll get interesting sound, I like it.

M-ster · #17 01-03-2012, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnW400

E, Ab, D, G, C, F. followed by F, B, E, Ab, D ,G (E7#/b9 over F).

Liked this, John! Never looked at that second voicing before. Nice.

brwnhornet59 · #18 01-03-2012, 11:06 AM

Man, Harmonic Major is a weird animal. I need to spend more time with it. Many players scoff at it. I think it has great possibilities.

brwnhornet59 · #19 01-04-2012, 05:05 AM

That is all it is. Its easiest usage is using the 5th mode, myxo b9. Works great over a Dom chord with an unaltered 5th.

Though I dig dorian b9, over it as well.

JonR · #20 01-05-2012, 01:56 PM

Harmonic major is a good scale when you have a major tonic alternating with a minor iv. (The melody of the bridge of Irving Berlin's "Blue Skies" could be said to be in harmonic major.)
Or even when you have just a minor iv chord.