The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #1

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    Hi guys,

    How are you?

    I was wondering the theory behind the Bmajor chord where it came from?

    Cm /--- 8x ----\
    Intro: | Cm | Eb |
    | i | III |

    /---------- 2x --------\
    Verse | Cm | Ebm | Ab | - |
    | i | iii | VI | - |

    Chorus | Fm | Ab | Cm | Eb/Bb |
    | v | VI | i | III |

    | Fm | Ab | Cm | B |
    | v | VI | i | #VII|

    #VII would be the best analysis, which mode, scale it came from?

    How a composer would think of using a chord like that after the tonic?

    Would considered a modulation?

    What would be your interpretation of the Bmajor chord on the chorus over a Eb melody, after Cminor chord(i).

    Thanks.

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  3. #2

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    What tune is that ?

  4. #3

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    A melody would likely clarify some things but some thoughts based on the chords as presented:

    Key of Cm

    CDEbFGAbBb natural minor

    There are 2 chords that expand the note collection beyond the Cm scale.

    Ebm - adds Gb. (Eb and Bb are common tones)
    B - adds F# and B, (D#/Eb is a common tone)

    These 2 minor scales contain both Ebm and B chords.

    EbFGbAbBbCbDb natural minor (4 common tones)
    EbFGbAbBbCbD harmonic minor (5 common tones)

    Ebm is the parallel minor of Eb major which is the relative major of Cm.

  5. #4
    Bako I like your explanation, thanks.

    I friend told me the Bmaj comes from C diminished scale but your explanation is more on point since the song does not have jazzy , ext chords.

    This is the track:

  6. #5

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    Tune is in Cm, which is relative of Eb. V of Eb is Bb, V of Bb is F and tritone of F is B., which is #V of Eb,.
    It is not uncommon move in any genre to go from #V to V to ...


    Sent from VladanMovies @ YouTube

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Vladan
    Tune is in Cm, which is relative of Eb. V of Eb is Bb, V of Bb is F and tritone of F is B., which is #V of Eb,.
    It is not uncommon move in any genre to go from #V to V to ...


    Sent from VladanMovies @ YouTube
    Cool explanation, but doesn't explain the flavour/type of the chord, maj, min, dim, b5, scale, etc...

    Bmajor happens on Ebm scale...

  8. #7

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    Why should it have any great theoretical explanation? Maybe they just wanted it to sound that way. Seriously.

  9. #8

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    Despite the word "Mode" in the band name, I'm guessing Dave and Martin chose the B chord for the somewhat obscure but important rule.

    It fit the melody and it sounded good.

  10. #9

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    Are you suggesting we should prioritize sounding good over elegant mathematics?

  11. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by bossa
    Cool explanation, but doesn't explain the flavour/type of the chord, maj, min, dim, b5, scale, etc...

    Bmajor happens on Ebm scale...
    Whatever.

  12. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
    Despite the word "Mode" in the band name, I'm guessing Dave and Martin chose the B chord for the somewhat obscure but important rule.

    It fit the melody and it sounded good.
    I thought the question was about why that chord sounded good in that place?

  13. #12

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    Why do we assume the chords came first?

  14. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by bako
    Are you suggesting we should prioritize sounding good over elegant mathematics?
    What's more I'm happy to bet I've heard that sound many times before. Soul or R&B come to mind and/or more ordinary pop, I'm not sure, can't place it now.

    I'm assuming your choice of script indicates a certain tongue-in-cheek...

  15. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
    Why do we assume the chords came first?
    Quite. The note they're singing is an Eb, very firmly in key. I suppose they could have used Cm, Eb, Ab, etc, but none sounds quite as good as B!

    I think it's what they call 'cool' :-)

  16. #15

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    The note they're singing is a D#, silly

  17. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by bossa
    Bmajor happens on Ebm scale...
    Absolutely, or rather Cb major.

    I suppose one could plead modal interchange because they've used an Ebm chord in the song and Eb major would be the chord in Cm. So there is definitely a modal connection.

    But it still sounds hot when it happens

  18. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
    The note they're singing is a D#, silly
    Me silly, you not wrong

    (edit)

    Actually, there is quite an interesting audio thing here. Because the B comes in you'd swear the voices/tune had gone down a notch, whereas they haven't, it's just another Eb. But the B makes it sound different - like it was a D# (it's not meant to be funny!).

    Maybe it's akin to how perception of a color changes depending on what's surrounding it.
    Last edited by ragman1; 01-05-2018 at 11:54 PM.

  19. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
    Why do we assume the chords came first?
    Why do you assume that I assume such thing? I do not. On the contrary.

    VladanMovies BlogSpot

  20. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by ragman1
    Quite. The note they're singing is an Eb, very firmly in key. I suppose they could have used Cm, Eb, Ab, etc, but none sounds quite as good as B!

    I think it's what they call 'cool' :-)
    And what is that makes for B Major (NO 7) chord to sound that way in that place?
    Read my first post in this thread to find out!

    VladanMovies BlogSpot

  21. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vladan
    And what is that makes for B Major (NO 7) chord to sound that way in that place?
    Read my first post in this thread to find out!
    I know the answer!

    Tune is in Cm, which is relative of Eb. V of Eb is Bb, V of Bb is F and tritone of F is B., which is #V of Eb,.
    It is not uncommon move in any genre to go from #V to V to ...

    I'm clever

  22. #21

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    Cool, now people have what to quote when "authority backed up opinion" is needed.

    VladanMovies BlogSpot

  23. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vladan
    Why do you assume that I assume such thing? I do not. On the contrary.

    VladanMovies BlogSpot
    I didnt assume you did, I assume the OP did.

  24. #23

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    We discussed already somwhere...

    In modern classical musicology there is even kind of conception called 'common 3rd chords relations'. These are major and minor chords (or even keys) that have the same tone as 3rd.
    I am not sure if it's good explanation but it exists.

    In clasical music it can be traced down to Romantic music occasionally.. but most often it happens in the first half of 20th century (Shostakovich and Prokoviev for example).

    Personally... I hear this major chord as III of minor (even if this minor does not show up actually).

    That is this B major is III of Ab minor.

    Ab minor can be easily resolved to C minor.

    Ab to G, B to C, Eb is common tone.

    And I think it's kind of VI from harmonic minor. And here it works mor like all suspended dominant chord.

  25. #24

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    Why should it have any great theoretical explanation? Maybe they just wanted it to sound that way. Seriously.
    You see... we make choices.. and even if unconciuosly that means that we feel some realations.

    To say 'we like it' is just a statement that we feel these relations. And it's ok.

    Theory is the way to explain these relations in conventional terms.

    Some people are ok just with the fact they feel it.
    Some want to explain it.

  26. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonah
    You see... we make choices.. and even if unconciuosly that means that we feel some realations.

    To say 'we like it' is just a statement that we feel these relations. And it's ok.

    Theory is the way to explain these relations in conventional terms.

    Some people are ok just with the fact they feel it.
    Some want to explain it.
    I understand, a lot of people (I've met them) choose a chord or sound just because it sounds good. And I agree too, absolutely, that if it sounds good there is almost certainly bound to be a theoretical explanation for it.

    And you're right too that some are happy just to stay with the nice feeling whereas others want to know why it works. Nothing wrong with that. In fact, if nobody had ever analysed everything we wouldn't have music theory at all!

    But my point before was that I doubt very much if Depeche Mode thought 'I think we'll use the III of Ab minor there'. I think they found a chord that felt good and a sound that had been used before in pop music. That's all really, nothing deep :-)