The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #26

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    Arpeggio wise I would concentrate on triads major and minor, diminished seventh, dominant seventh, minor sixth and seventh, major seventh. Maybe major ninth dominant and minor ninth after that. Don't try to master all positions at first. Just a couple, and work from there
    Last edited by christianm77; 08-12-2017 at 05:01 PM.

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  3. #27

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    I'm a huge proponent of one step at a time. For me and my students, first things first: Triad arpeggios. One octave. Then full arpeggios through each of the scale patterns. That won't necessarily sound jazzy. But first things first. Then apply to basic progressions - I-IV-V and the minors.

  4. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by henryrobinett
    I'm a huge proponent of one step at a time. For me and my students, first things first: Triad arpeggios. One octave. Then full arpeggios through each of the scale patterns. That won't necessarily sound jazzy. But first things first. Then apply to basic progressions - I-IV-V and the minors.
    Yup. Don't expect jazzy results right away.

  5. #29
    I think the best answer is simply: arpeggios that you will use.

    Find a song you like, get the chord progression, and work on the arps for that progression in different positions.

    No point in memorizing them if you don't end up using them.

  6. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow of the Sun
    I think the best answer is simply: arpeggios that you will use.

    Find a song you like, get the chord progression, and work on the arps for that progression in different positions.

    No point in memorizing them if you don't end up using them.
    That seems to be a position others take as well. I would think memorizing raw arpeggios would be better suited for helping with on-the-fly improvising... Furthermore, it seems to me that since chromaticism and passing tones are frequently used in jazz, why learn how to play the exact arpeggios? That may be a subjective point and it probably also depends on what you're trying to accomplish; Each to his own. But I would think TARGETING the tones of each arpeggio would work fine for some tunes and not necessarily playing them note for note. So if you can at least memorize the shape of the arp then you're on the right track. Of course, being able to improv on the fly is good, but taking from the cookie jar only what one needs will "facilitate" the memorization of arps, as another here put it.
    Last edited by Jazzy_Dan; 08-13-2017 at 05:52 AM.

  7. #31

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    My thinking about this changes over time. Right now ...

    I think it's a good idea to know the chord tones in the chords you use. An "arp" suggests learning to play them in a certain order. That introduces the possibility that you're going to have to start the same way (fret/finger/interval) every time, so you have to practice them different ways, that is, starting on each note in the pattern and going to every other note.

    I could never get to the bottom of anything that way, so, instead, I memorize the names of the notes in each chord. I know where they are. The idea is for the chord tones to light up on the fingerboard (in your mind).

    Same argument for scales. I found it more effective to learn the names of the notes and not visual patterns.

    And, that works just fine until the tempo gets too high or the chords are flying by too fast.

    In that situation, it can help to have some well rehearsed stuff under your fingers. So, despite my preference for simply knowing the notes in the chords and the various extensions by name, in practice, I find it helpful to know scales and arps too.

    Having to think that way while soloing may not be art, but it isn't clams either.

    And, it probably goes without saying, that you can play good jazz without knowing any of this stuff, if you can make up interesting melodies with good rhythmic content. Oh, and make them come out the speaker on the fly.

    And, even if you do know all this stuff -- you really don't want to be thinking about it when you're soloing. You want the sounds in your ear and your fingers to find the right notes automatically. How do you get to that place? Many different paths work. Knowing arps, scales, triads etc is one popular way. Transcribing stuff, learning it in 12 keys and figuring out how it fits the harmony of the tune is another. Either way, after a few years, you can play through changes.

  8. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jazzy_Dan
    That seems to be a position others take as well. I would think memorizing raw arpeggios would be better suited for helping with on-the-fly improvising... Furthermore, it seems to me that since chromaticism and passing tones are frequently used in jazz, why learn how to play the exact arpeggios? That may be a subjective point and it probably also depends on what you're trying to accomplish; Each to his own. But I would think TARGETING the tones of each arpeggio would work fine for some tunes and not necessarily playing them note for note. So if you can at least memorize the shape of the arp then you're on the right track. Of course, being able to improv on the fly is good, but taking from the cookie jar only what one needs will "facilitate" the memorization of arps, as another here put it.
    Actually there are a lot of exact arpeggios in some players. Most of the ones I've looked at tbh. It's hard to make generalisations tho.

    But passing tones are important too...

  9. #33

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    I've noticed that also.

    One of the first things I ever transcribed was a Paul Desmond lick that I thought was beautiful.

    I turned out to be a root position Abmaj7 arp, chord tones only. Played from the nat7 descending in jumps. Think xx6543 but playing E string, G string, B string, D string. Don't recall the harmony, but probably against Fm7.

    So, yes, he played an arp. But, he didn't play R 3 5 7.

  10. #34
    Yeah. Substitutions are a big part of continuing study. Basic arps can form things like enclosures and other targeting devices, with inside harmony or out. I always hear mention of "straight arps" not being useful in soloing or whatever. Maybe if you're talking straight diatonic root position ONLY or something...

    Anyway, you certainly aren't "wasting" anything learning some arps.
    Last edited by matt.guitarteacher; 08-13-2017 at 09:14 PM.

  11. #35

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    I just discovered the "arp UP scale DOWN" method (or scale UP arp DOWN...yadda yadda, however you want to do it). I think this is a good compromise worth spending some time learning. I'm gonna try applying this to some chord progressions I'm working out. Like ARPing up one chord, and scaling down the next chord in the progression.

    But regarding the "scale down" part, I assume it's referring to the scale that the chord is derived from? I guess there's no hard fast rule?

  12. #36

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    not many hard fast rules in music....many approaches.....

  13. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jazzy_Dan
    I just discovered the "arp UP scale DOWN" method (or scale UP arp DOWN...yadda yadda, however you want to do it). I think this is a good compromise worth spending some time learning. I'm gonna try applying this to some chord progressions I'm working out. Like ARPing up one chord, and scaling down the next chord in the progression.

    But regarding the "scale down" part, I assume it's referring to the scale that the chord is derived from? I guess there's no hard fast rule?
    Yes that was a huge discovery for me too !
    Down the scale of the diatonic key of the moment
    works most of the time

  14. #38

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    Can you guys explain the "Scale Up Arpeggio Down" thing?

    Thanks!

    -Chris

  15. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by h1pst3r88
    Can you guys explain the "Scale Up Arpeggio Down" thing?

    Thanks!

    -Chris
    Not a hard and fast rule, but in bop playing you'll often hear players skip steps when playing ascending lines (think arpeggio up) and play more stepwise/scalar/chromatic descending.

    Trancribe some bop and let us know whathat you think of this "Internet wisdom."

  16. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by h1pst3r88
    Can you guys explain the "Scale Up Arpeggio Down" thing?

    Thanks!

    -Chris
    The head to Donna Lee explains it very well

  17. #41

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  18. #42

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    I was taught arps by starting with 7th chords. Chuck Wayne's system. Basically the 7th chord starting on each note of the chord on the 6th string.

    Then, you adjust the notes to make other chord types. That is, lower the third and it's m7, lower the 7 for dominant 7 and so forth. Fingerings are usually obvious.

    Then you drill them so you have every chord in every key.

    More recently, I have added some tweeners so that I have options starting on different fingers.

    The idea is to always have access to the arp you need, no matter where you are on the neck. This is most helpful when the temp gets out of control.

    One other point. When I first learned them, it was always from the low E or A string. I neglected drilling how to start arps in the middle. That's a significant point, since, mostly, you're not going to be soloing on the low strings. I did drill the descending arps which was more helpful, but eventually I had to do some remedial work on it.






















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  19. #43

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    yea any system or approach can work... the point is to have a system that repeats, is logically organized and in the end... the fingerings naturally create a performance system for playing music on the guitar. Not the only system, but a basic reference to start from so the neck becomes one big fingering or pattern.... and can change as needed.

    You shouldn't need to go through the process of... OK I'm playing a Dom 7th arpeggio , then alter a chord tone to get to some other 7th chord, them some other embellishment... oh and I need to be in 10th position to cover something else... and end up with a bunch of fingerings from different chords, starting points, different strings and whatever else one needs.

    The fretboard needs to become one fingering... one basic reference. If one chooses a system... then don't complain. Make a choice and stick with it. You can't play music on an instrument and not even know how it's mechanically organized to play music.

  20. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reg
    You shouldn't need to go through the process of... OK I'm playing a Dom 7th arpeggio , then alter a chord tone to get to some other 7th chord, them some other embellishment... oh and I need to be in 10th position to cover something else... and end up with a bunch of fingerings from different chords, starting points, different strings and whatever else one needs.
    Ah, you mean like I've unsuccessfully been doing for years... Yes, I can attest to the fact that this approach does not work .

    Reg, the attachments you provided are awesome, thanks!

    -Chris

  21. #45

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    I find arpeggios most useful for moving around the fretboard quickly. Since you mentioned liking Wes, see how he uses arpeggios and triads.. not sure it will give you the 'jazzy effect' (?) you're looking for, but can help you get to upper structure tensions in a blink.