The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #1

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    As a long time Science Fiction nerd, I rather enjoy the fact that jazz is full of what I can only call egregious jargon of an order that would make even the king of delivering tracts of literally unspeakable nonsense himself, LeVar Burton, say on an encounter with the Lydian Chromatic Concept: 'you can type that shit, George, but you can't say it!'

    (Sure these texts all might all make sense in context, but where's the fun in that?)

    I invite you to post your favourite impenetrable jazz/music theory jargon below for my amusement.

    Here's my opener, from Ernst Levy via Steve Coleman

    “the progressing psychologization of music had reached a culmination point in the period after the first world war, when the existence of consonance and dissonance was largely disregarded or even denied, and when solely the ontic-gignetic concept pair was relied upon for producing the desired effects of binding and unbinding.”

    I'm sure we can do better than that, but we gotta start somewhere.

    (Mental note: must try and introduce the terms ontic and gignetic into casual conversation at the next opportunity.)
    Last edited by christianm77; 07-29-2017 at 04:57 AM.

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  3. #2

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    that's not the stuff - that's philosophical stuff - the problems with that sort of stuff are different than the problems with just describing musical structures effectively and efficiently. this sounds okay to us - but to 'outsiders' it sounds insane (the stuff you posted sounds awful to us too!)

    the stuff is e.g. - 'the back door progression is a seventh chord on the flat seven going home to one. you can get this sound by playing iv maj - iv minor - i'

    this kind of stuff is everywhere - i speak it as if it were just ordinary english (at least when i bump into other humans) - but it does you no good at parties

    it can all come to seem like awful jargon (bad jargon = pointless jargon) because there's a basic split between be-bop types and modal types - so it can easily sound to one jazz musician as if another is just blowing smoke

    when they aren't

  4. #3

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    Ernst Levy your talking about a person who taught music at MIT so that scholarly jibber-jabber is to be expected. Now if you have heard Coleman speak he doesn't talk anything like that and he is probably one of the most knowledgeable musicians I've ever heard speak going from someone bangs two rocks together to create a chant to the most modern progressive musicians like Threadgill and Muhal Richard Abrams.

    After spending years attending traditional college, private music schools, and working in a private music school I'd say the the Jazz Technobabble usually comes from the traditional college Jazz professors. The only ones that don't tend to talk that way are the ones that are still gigging in clubs and touring in summers. Real Jazz is street music and still is so you'll hear more people talkin' like Miles than like Ernet Levy. Then you have ones like Monk who on the rare occasion would answer a question his rely was to play something on the piano and walk away.

  5. #4

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    [QUOTE=christianm77;791597]

    (Mental note: must try and introduce the terms ontic and gignetic into casual conversation at the next opportunity.)[/QUOTE

    I had to open my Oxford Dictionaries tab for that one. "Ontic" is there, but "gignetic" is conspicuous by its absence. Presumably ontic's opposite or complement?

    I must say, you have picked a sterling exemplar of the nub of your gist.

  6. #5

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    Don't try to pull that shit on Pat Martino, he'll daze and confuse you for weeks.

  7. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by docbop
    Ernst Levy your talking about a person who taught music at MIT so that scholarly jibber-jabber is to be expected. Now if you have heard Coleman speak he doesn't talk anything like that and he is probably one of the most knowledgeable musicians I've ever heard speak going from someone bangs two rocks together to create a chant to the most modern progressive musicians like Threadgill and Muhal Richard Abrams.

    After spending years attending traditional college, private music schools, and working in a private music school I'd say the the Jazz Technobabble usually comes from the traditional college Jazz professors. The only ones that don't tend to talk that way are the ones that are still gigging in clubs and touring in summers. Real Jazz is street music and still is so you'll hear more people talkin' like Miles than like Ernet Levy. Then you have ones like Monk who on the rare occasion would answer a question his rely was to play something on the piano and walk away.
    Well that's an extremely gignetic thing to say.

  8. #7

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    hmms - I may have this wrong but it seems that Christian's post actually is the ontological ( ontic) proof of gignetics ( assuming gignetics exists- I think this is a chicken/egg thang ). As his post shows up as one of the first on Google to verify both terms.
    Will
    Last edited by WillMbCdn5; 07-29-2017 at 11:14 PM.

  9. #8

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    [QUOTE=citizenk74;791696]
    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77

    (Mental note: must try and introduce the terms ontic and gignetic into casual conversation at the next opportunity.)[/QUOTE

    I had to open my Oxford Dictionaries tab for that one. "Ontic" is there, but "gignetic" is conspicuous by its absence. Presumably ontic's opposite or complement?

    I must say, you have picked a sterling exemplar of the nub of your gist.
    A Theory of Harmony - Ernst Levy - Google Books

    May the ontic be with you as you interpret that.


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  10. #9

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    Right on-tic!

    David

  11. #10

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    [QUOTE=blille;791803]
    Quote Originally Posted by citizenk74

    A Theory of Harmony - Ernst Levy - Google Books

    May the ontic be with you as you interpret that.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Try as I might, I Kant quite dig it.

  12. #11

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    I intend to use the study of gignetics to attract more gigs

  13. #12

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    'Static' and 'dynamic'? 'Categorically so' and 'becoming so'?
    Last edited by destinytot; 07-30-2017 at 09:14 AM.

  14. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by citizenk74

    Try as I might, I Kant quite dig it.
    Oh, we have a sense of Hume-or, do we?

  15. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    I invite you to post your favourite impenetrable jazz/music theory jargon below for my amusement.
    Unlike the main metaphor in his book ('Harmony with Lego Bricks'), I don't think Conrad Cork's 'WEAM' - 'Western European Art Music' is helpful to Europeans.

    And I'm posting it as an example of 'impenetrable jargon' because I think it's the very simplicity of the vocabulary that makes this quiet (and, admittedly, clever) 'correction' so effective at clouding its intentions.

    I'm not saying there's no truth behind the invented acronym; I'm saying I think the reasons for actually publishing it are misguided.
    Last edited by destinytot; 07-30-2017 at 02:33 PM.

  16. #15

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    [QUOTE=citizenk74;791818]
    Quote Originally Posted by blille

    Try as I might, I Kant quite dig it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Thumpalumpacus
    Oh, we have a sense of Hume-or, do we?
    I can't dig it either. My sensibilities aren't that deep. I just dig the stuff that's easily reachable. I guess I'm just a High digger.

    David

  17. #16

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    [QUOTE=TruthHertz;791863]
    Quote Originally Posted by citizenk74



    I can't dig it either. My sensibilities aren't that deep. I just dig the stuff that's easily reachable. I guess I'm just a High digger.

    David
    Hmm. I'm not Saussure...

  18. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by destinytot
    'Static' and 'dynamic'? 'Categorically so' and 'becoming so'?


  19. #18

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    Jazz Technobabble-jazzterms-png

  20. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by morroben
    Jazz Technobabble-jazzterms-png

    They forgot "you dig?".

  21. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thumpalumpacus
    Oh, we have a sense of Hume-or, do we?
    I like to think so, but that may be a categorical error on my part. Nevertheless, I sometimes find it imperative to take it out for a bit of a Spinoza.
    Last edited by citizenk74; 07-30-2017 at 03:29 PM. Reason: More mischief

  22. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by TruthHertz
    I can't dig it either. My sensibilities aren't that deep. I just dig the stuff that's easily reachable. I guess I'm just a High digger.

    David
    You're Russelling my jimmies, dude.
    Last edited by Thumpalumpacus; 07-30-2017 at 05:49 PM.

  23. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by citizenk74
    I like to think so, but that may be a categorical error on my part. Nevertheless, I sometimes find it imperative to take it out for a bit of a Spinoza.
    Dewey need to carry this further?
    Last edited by Thumpalumpacus; 08-01-2017 at 05:00 PM.

  24. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by citizenk74
    I like to think so, but that may be a categorical error on my part. Nevertheless, I sometimes find it imperative to take it out for a bit of a Spinoza.



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  25. #24

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    This thread has got Foucault to do with jazz guitar.

  26. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by grahambop
    This thread has got Foucault to do with jazz guitar.
    Well, it may not be gignetic, but at least it's gigglegenic.