Play what you hear

[jeanpatt]

Who here uses this method ?

Are you satisfied ?

[seanlowe]

mmm kind of hazy subject really, i tihnk "play what you hear" is, for most people, just a culmination of a lifetime of hard work on normal theory with the scales and modes and all . This is because thats all scales are; just the way of knowing how the next note will sound, they aren't a way of improvising, just reminding you where the bum notes are. I tihnk thats something people do forget though, cos really the "play what you hear" thing is what is meant to happen, eventually you do know instinctively where the next note of your melody is just through familiarity with the guitar....
It's alright if you're born with perfect pitch and an instant neurone response memory? haha

[jeanpatt]

I totally agree with you but "play what you hear" makes the process faster. It keeps you focus on the scales and sound of notes...even if this method is not really a lot of fun.

[Shooting Star]

I know a lot of guitarists who just "play what they hear" and they usually play pretty well. But its nice to know what notes you should be hitting, at least I think so anyways.....

[A.D.]

I tried this method, but not sure I got right. What sometimes I try to do when I practice is to play the melody that comes to my mind while listening to the tune, rather than letting my fingers follow their "safe patterns" or licks.

Although as this is a new process to me I'm confused about a simple matter: won't this make my solos predictable in a long run? Because even if I manage to play what I have in mind it still all depends on my skills as melody maker/thinker.
So does this mean that we have to train our melodic sense as well? How to do so besides listening to diverse music, trying new scales or approaches? It all leads back to the technical aspect of music and theory, that proved being helpful, at least to me.
What do you guys think? Am I confused?

[Shooting Star]

I think you hit the nail on the head with what we should all be doing, A.D., listening to diverse music, practicing and experimenting with different things. I think thats the key.

[aPAULo]

I wish I could play by ear. Even when I try to play by ear, nothing pops into my head or I just end up letting my fingers run off everywhere. I think it probably would take a pretty long time to learn how to really play by ear.

[jeanpatt]

I had exactly the same problem : no melody in my head.

But I read an interview about Santana (no jazz player but a great guitar player anyway) who said that when he improvises he just tells a story or a situation to himself ; like for instance an arguement with your wife or anything. You just have to try to stick a melody on the story you imagine.

And believe me it works... don't know why !

Now I have to learn to play be ear !!!

[PascalD]

Yeah, I struggle with that one too. For me, its the combination that will lead you to good impro. It's really (trying) to play what you hear inside. If you're stuck or don't know where to go next, use scales as a guide to get back on track. What I also do is: learn some short licks (yeah I know, some folks don't like that) , just one bar , learn them as such you can play them fluently without thinking. You can get them from a book, from this site, or just... from your head (hi hi ). If you get it from books, you might just take a couple of notes from the book and add your own notes to it (you know, the ones you hear in your head)
I hope this helps
PascalD

[sinister_81]

i have really good ears, didnt get much out of standrings book though.

[aPAULo]

Yea when im in the shower or something or daydreaming in school, I can think of some nice sounding music. But when I get to my guitar, either I forgot it or I cannot transfer the notes to my guitar. It gets pretty annoying.

[seanlowe]

Buy a cheap dictaphone, or an MP3 player with a mic in and when you have your ideas just yodel down the jist of it, then when you pick up your banjo, work it out?

[fret15]

Originally Posted by aPAULo

Yea when im in the shower or something or daydreaming in school, I can think of some nice sounding music. But when I get to my guitar, either I forgot it or I cannot transfer the notes to my guitar. It gets pretty annoying.

I tend to run into that problem too - that's why I can't wait until I'm at the point where I'm that comfortable with the guitar.

Sometimes, though, I get the feeling that knowing scales and modes limits my ability to transpose my thoughts to guitar, because my hands are always going in the way of scales...anyone else feel like scales are "limiting" them in any way? I know it sounds weird...

[A.D.]

Scales are not limiting per se, but our fingering is cos we always approach them the same way. That's why playing by ear might solve the problem 'cos we think melodically and not with our fingers.
Sometimes I'm afraid of becoming a music software (very limited though), cos I play things I learn within my small cage no better than a dumb program who's been made to do few things. Always same fingerings, same melodic solutions and rhythms.
Time to upgrade myself. But it's so hard and requires a lot of work.

[mr. beaumont]

Originally Posted by fret15

I tend to run into that problem too - that's why I can't wait until I'm at the point where I'm that comfortable with the guitar.

Sometimes, though, I get the feeling that knowing scales and modes limits my ability to transpose my thoughts to guitar, because my hands are always going in the way of scales...anyone else feel like scales are "limiting" them in any way? I know it sounds weird...

well, likely the stuff you're coming up with DOES come from some scale...

a fun thing to do is come up with lines played on one string only. not really practical (so much jumping around) but it really helps you get away from the whole "scale pattern" nonsense.

[djibouti]

there's lots of ear training softwares that are sold for downloads nowadays. i don't personally own any but i've used one or two before. they seem to be pretty helpful but only if you actually have the dedication, otherwise it's a waste of money. also improvise a LOT!!! this helps greatly with learning to play what you hear.
one more thing, there's an actual course called 'play what you hear'. it's by some guy that seems to be pretty knowledgeable about things and knows what he's talking about. any reviews anyone?

[derek]

I have been curious about Chris' method also. I can sing some really good lines over chords, but can't play them on guitar in real time.

That is my ulitmate goal in soloing. Here is the gold standard for me. Check this vid out.
YouTube - I Got Rythm

[Derf]

Originally Posted by jeanpatt

Who here uses this method ?

Are you satisfied ?

I'm a guitar teacher who uses ear/finger method because it works with charts and notes. The true nature of music is aural. Written notes are a video simulation. Don't you ever wonder how Stevie "Wonder" did it?

[kulzak]

I have a good ear or so I am told by my teachers.
But I don't read so well and I think that would be just as important.

I am wondering how many of you are good sight readers ? or at least good enough to work out a chord chart by reading the notes ?

I can do that but very slowly..... I am getting better at it all the time.

Dan Balmer once told me this:

" There is nothing else in music study that will get you there faster then learning how to read."

I believe that is true. It's better to think music then it is to memorize a bunch of Cliche's.

[derek]

I am in the same boat, painfully slow with reading chords, but can do it. Can do single line melodies much easier, but not nearly where I would like to be.

I have been told my numerous guys that in order to improve this, spend 15 minutes every day on it. Sounds about as exciting as root canal.

[kulzak]

Yep ! painful.

Someone told me when I was a kid how difficult it was to learn to read.
He said it takes a life time to learn to sight read. I believe he was full of
beans. But it put a mental block in me about learning to read. I am glad my teachers had forced me to read as much as I have. When I get into it
I really like to it when I take the trouble. Most recently I learned to play
" Blues for Alice " by reading. My ear is good but not that good.

I try to read as much as I can and I am at a point where it is getting easier. Timing is a little more of a challenge. I'd like to take drum lessons.

[Derf]

Sight reading is a practice skill. Trust your ear first. But the more you sight read, the easier it is. Don't be intimidated. But always remember that written music is only an approximation of what really was heard. Someone could spend a year transposing a Coltrane riff, but you could learn it by ear in a day, if you practice. On the same, Coltrane could never have painted a VanGogh....eh? That's an ear joke son.

[Derf]

Practice 15 minutes a day????
What else would you have to give up?

[franco6719]

Sight reading is no big deal. I learned it as a kid. You just have to practice hard and be constantly on it for about 6 hours a day for a while. Itìs just rote, routine, mechanical stuff. It has nothing to do with making melodies and improvisation. I don't get the ear stuff. I can't imagine singing what I play like that fellow on the video. It's just impossible for me, I think, and now I'm driving myself nuts trying to learn this sort of thing.

[hubert54]

agree, sightreading is no big deal or something else
it doesn't help if your not listening to your interne ears -
approximation, might be
what makes a musician to be a "musician"?

[pierre richard]

you have to know where you are going or you will wind up somewhere else...

like joe pass says "play the melody"

we all start out with "safe" patterns that fall within and around the chord forms we learn..

the next step is to forget about the chord and think of the scale only and the tones that are in that scale...humming a melody in your head and transferring that to your fingers..

there is lots of beautiful music to be made by you and is waitng for your ability to proceed to get you there...

time on the instrument..pierre

[davidblair]

Playing and practicing scales, intervals, licks, is "limiting" to improvisation, etc. by a limited scope of practice. Doing it over and over the same way produces predictable results. I have practiced sometimes like this not recognizing that I was reinforcing mistakes or poor technique.
After many years of violin lessons with some very talented teachers I began learning "music" from a young pianist, A Berklee grad. He showed me the value of knowing scales, modes, and chords by demonstrating how to apply them and create a scene or feeling. Taylor knew the moods and modes...
But the "unlimiting" paragraph in his Berklee textbook enlightened me, defining practice for improvisation as a never ending variation of scales, intervals, modes, chord scales/inversions, combined with every conceivable timing drill and fingering pattern. Overlapping octaves, 24 keys, major, dominant, minors. Metronome!!! Speed drills.

I also try to imagine the lyrics or melody of the tune for a better solo.

I enjoy listening to Mike Marshall, he plays so well I can't tell who it is.

[Paul Dillon]

I am in the process of trying to cross over into this type of thinking. Like a lot of guitarists I learned to play by copying what I heard on records but as I progressed and got into scales and modes, my playing got more grounded in music theory. For a while this produced good results quickly but I have found it to be a bit of a straight-jacket. When I improvise on the guitar my hands keep falling into safe predictable patterns where my musical knowledge tells me the notes will work OK. Now I am trying to write guitar parts in my head and not pick the guitar up until the part is well and truly stuck there. After all these years of scales and modes I am now trying to think chromatically.

Has anyone here seen Ed Byrne's "Linear Jazz Improvisation"? It seems like an interesting concept to me, from what the sample shows, there are some good ideas in there.

Also, what's the concensus on the Standring course?

[franco6719]

"But the "unlimiting" paragraph in his Berklee textbook enlightened me"

What? What Berklee textbook are you talking about? When I was Berklee (85 to 88 or so), we didn't have any textbooks. There were just paperbacks,workbooks and hand-outs. I never heard of any of this "unlimiting" material.