It looks like you are not yet registered with The Jazz Guitar Forum. Click here to register, it's easy, fast and free!

The Jazz Guitar Forum

Go Back   The Jazz Guitar Forum > The Jazz Guitar Forum > Theory

Play What You Hear Guitar Course


Welcome to the Jazz Guitar Forums. You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features.

By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.

View Poll Results: Do you use the Coltrane change in your soloing ?
Yes, pretty often 9 15.00%
Well, sometimes... 13 21.67%
Not at all 19 31.67%
The what ? 15 25.00%
F**k theory ! 4 6.67%
Voters: 60. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #31  
Old 10-19-2009, 05:26 PM
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 174
Default

Talk about analyzing Giant Steps! I found this on the net. Wow - finally someone who looks at improvisation exactly like I do...........

http://scholar.lib.vt.edu/theses/ava...ted/dmfetd.pdf
__________________
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

www.MasterGuitarists.com

Guitar Planet

See my book at Jamey Aebersold's JazzBooks.com or on Amazon or here

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 10-20-2009, 04:12 AM
franco6719's Avatar  
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,402
Default

Markov chains and deep structural analysis of the combinatorial asymptoptic asmosis.

Jesus Christ, that's the sort of thing that made me abandon my nightmarish journey into the world of computer science and math and go BACK into music in the first place. I REFUSE to read it under pain of waterboarding. Period. If jazz becomes all about that, I will then switch to simple blues or something.
__________________

Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 10-20-2009, 06:05 AM
mangotango's Avatar  
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Essex UK
Posts: 672
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SwingSwangSwung View Post
Talk about analyzing Giant Steps! I found this on the net. Wow - finally someone who looks at improvisation exactly like I do...........

http://scholar.lib.vt.edu/theses/ava...ted/dmfetd.pdf
There's 92 pages of that cr@p??

+1 on Franco's comment - throw it away and play the tune, then change it slightly, then change it slightly more. That's jazz enough for me, buddy!

Anything more than that, I'll play a blues. Over everything.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 10-20-2009, 06:10 AM
guelda's Avatar  
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 127
Default

What a great document ! I can't wait to read it !
...well, I guess I'll have to take some maths lessons before, it looks
tough !

There must be a lot of such thesis, this one looks quite "clear" but
I agree this kind of analysis shouldn't replace the ear.

peace
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 11-19-2009, 03:01 PM
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 113
Default

I wonder if john Cotrane was wrapped in all this rocket science, if he was
no wonder he went modal,it's easier,is'nt it?. When all else fails we've still
got the blue's..LG..
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 11-20-2009, 03:27 AM
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 258
Default

I actually think that that kind of analysis of jazz is a very interesting viewpoint to have; to me, it shows just how amazing jazz soloists are when compared to computers; it shows that they can't be replaced.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 11-20-2009, 04:43 AM
franco6719's Avatar  
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,402
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by larry graves View Post
I wonder if john Cotrane was wrapped in all this rocket science, if he was
no wonder he went modal,it's easier,is'nt it?. When all else fails we've still
got the blue's..LG..

Not necessarily easier, just different. Easier to "hear" certainly, IMO. Anyway, for a musician of the level of Coltrane, I think he probably just tired of the "change running", harmonic exploration and, under the influence of Indian and African music, wanted to try more melodic and rhytmtic experimentation. The "modal" allows more space and time for that, and then the free stuff even more so.
__________________

Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 11-20-2009, 04:45 AM
franco6719's Avatar  
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,402
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow of the Sun View Post
I actually think that that kind of analysis of jazz is a very interesting viewpoint to have; to me, it shows just how amazing jazz soloists are when compared to computers; it shows that they can't be replaced.

Fair point. It is useful in its academic way.
__________________

Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 11-20-2009, 11:35 AM
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 113
Default

Free is right, Coltrane went so free that nobody could play with him, except a couple of drummers. If he had lived I wonder how free he would
have become?. Is there a limit before you vanish in a puff of smoke?.
It would be great to just pick up the guitar and make it all up as you go
along__ 'Is there an audience out there?.. It can be a cop out though for
some--Noise guitar etc...

Flatwounds are the best ar--round

Last edited by larry graves : 11-20-2009 at 11:38 AM. Reason: Left something out.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 11-20-2009, 11:59 AM
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 113
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by franco6719 View Post
Markov chains and deep structural analysis of the combinatorial asymptoptic asmosis.

Jesus Christ, that's the sort of thing that made me abandon my nightmarish journey into the world of computer science and math and go BACK into music in the first place. I REFUSE to read it under pain of waterboarding. Period. If jazz becomes all about that, I will then switch to simple blues or something.
Giant steps--great song, anyone know the words?..
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old 11-20-2009, 12:04 PM
BigDaddyLoveHandles's Avatar  
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Kelowna, BC Canada
Posts: 4,107
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by larry graves View Post
Giant steps--great song, anyone know the words?..
Giant steps in giant shoes:

YouTube Video
ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.



Actually, many people have had a go at setting lyrics to Giant Steps.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 04-21-2010, 03:24 AM
3shiftgtr's Avatar  
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: B.F.E.
Posts: 70
Default

I have never in all of my born days, think I'd live to see a thread on a JAZZ site, that goes on and on hacking on the Coltrane changes. And Coltrane. I mean, just, wow.....
__________________
G'won, admit it. You love your fusion.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 04-21-2010, 02:01 PM
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 113
Technique Con-Fusion

Coltrane basic changes in G. Ami7-Bb7-Ebmaj7-F#7-Bmaj7-D7-Gma7. It's that simple. Fusion! what's that? Rock and roll, without the rock!..Larry G.

Last edited by larry graves : 04-21-2010 at 02:08 PM.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 04-22-2010, 03:13 AM
3shiftgtr's Avatar  
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: B.F.E.
Posts: 70
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by larry graves View Post
Fusion! what's that? Rock and roll, without the rock!..Larry G.
LOL...roll and roll....
__________________
G'won, admit it. You love your fusion.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 04-22-2010, 07:45 AM
franco6719's Avatar  
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,402
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3shiftgtr View Post
I have never in all of my born days, think I'd live to see a thread on a JAZZ site, that goes on and on hacking on the Coltrane changes. And Coltrane. I mean, just, wow.....
Is that a bad or good thing? Oh, "hacking" means babbling or something?
__________________

Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 04-22-2010, 11:56 AM
3shiftgtr's Avatar  
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: B.F.E.
Posts: 70
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by franco6719 View Post
Is that a bad or good thing? Oh, "hacking" means babbling or something?
"Hacking" is southern slang for verbally putting someone or something down, or speaking negatively about someone.

And after reading the negative comments here, I am just stunned. Coltrane was one of the jazz language's greatest innovators. And his playing is alternately beautiful, sensitive and sublime, as well as intense, physical and bold.

To me, some of these comments here about Coltrane are like saying that Wes played like a wimp.

Just crazy......
__________________
G'won, admit it. You love your fusion.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 04-24-2010, 04:49 AM
franco6719's Avatar  
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,402
Default

Oh, I agree completely. Coltrane was THE greatest improviser of the 20th century (if not the greatest and most creative musician) in my opinion. There are, of course, a lot of petty whiners in the world of jazz, as in all sectors of the world, who like to tear down things that they cannot even come close to beginning to fathom. What else can be said?
__________________

Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 03-20-2011, 06:03 PM
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: los angeles
Posts: 118
Default

i use the first five notes and five chords in giant steps as an exercise and use as many positions. chord inversions and keys as possible...a great way to do a fretboard intensive...

every now and then i can use part of it in a structured song...but i can use most of it in alot of solo work...
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 03-27-2011, 03:34 PM
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 98
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnW400 View Post
John McLaughlin does "Do you hear the voices you left behind?" on his ELectric Guitarist Album.

They probably would become more useful if you streched them out to be a measure a piece rather than two beats
Just listened to this thing...the bassist is nuts man! Wtf. haha
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2012, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO 3.2.0 ©2008, Crawlability, Inc.
Copyright © 2006 Jazzguitar.be