The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #1

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    In 2012 I bought only three books, but what books they are.

    - Creative Chordal Harmony for Guitar by Tim Miller and Mick Goodrick
    - Drop-2 by Randy Vincent
    - Three Note Voicings and Beyond by Randy Vincent

    On Jan 7th I broke down and bought Line Games by Randy Vincent.

    The reason I wanted all this is because all these books deal with hexatonic pitch collections.
    This is by no means beginner material, it's pretty advanced thinking.

    What gets me is that Randy has analyzed all these players and saw the common use of hexatonic ideas.
    So far in Line Games I'm playing Pass, Wes and Martino lines that show real life use of hexatonics.
    I find it interesting that Randy is talking about how Joe Pass used hexatonics yet Pass didn't know he was doing it.
    Hexatonics and triad pairs ideas were not in the thinking of those early players, but it was in there playing.
    Randy is presenting this hexatonic thread that runs through all these players that were unaware of their hexatonic
    similarities. This is new guitar territory for me. I grew up with altered dominant and full scales not six note collections.

    Tim Miller and Mick Goodrick have a great book in Creative Chordal Harmony.
    The Generic Modality Compression concept is a facinating and complex study. I'm creeping through it. I heard Julian Lage played through the whole thing in a weekend.

    Is anyone out there working through these amazing books on hexatonics??
    Or, how did you learn about hexatonics and triad pairs??
    Last edited by ASATcat; 01-09-2013 at 10:23 PM.

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2

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    I learned 'em by searching for a pitch symmetry with an even number, to use with even rhythms based on 4 and 8. The seven note western scale is THE rhythmic challenge of jazz. Symmetric scales are much easier to use rhythmically.

  4. #3

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    I have the three Randy Vincent books and I am working through all three of them a little each week. I usually skip through the parts I am very familiar with. These books are quite advanced and a lot of time needs to be available to be able to master some of the concepts. I highly recommend them for serious jazz guitar student who wants a well- organized approach to jazz guitar.

    wiz

  5. #4

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    I am creeping through these books. So much to study.

    I'd like to hear about other people's experiences with them.

    I wouldn't be surprised if Mr. Lage absorbed these concepts probably before the book was even published. I think I read that he studied with Mr. Goodrick. I know he studied with Vincent for a long time out in California. Surely, it would not be foolish to absorb the books written by the teachers of this amazing musician.

  6. #5
    Julian was privy to the early concepts behind all these books.
    He did study with Goodrick, and Miller as well as anyone Julian wanted. Joe Lovano? No sweat Julian.
    I was fortunate to hire julian and Steve Kimock to do a clinic back in '97 and at that time Julian talked about Goodricks new books coming out, the Creative Chordal Harmony ideas was what Julian was talking about. Six years later the book comes out. Cool

  7. #6

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    I've briefly looked at the Goodrick/Miller Creative Chordal Harmony book and found the book to be is very different from standard Hexatonic Triad Pairs. I don't think the Goodrick/Miller concept is restricted to just creating chords, I think it can be used to create interesting melodic lines.

    Enjoying the journey.
    Guy

  8. #7

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    Just a clarifying point: When someone says hexatonic, I think of a set of six notes. For example, C D E F G A. Importantly - (to me at least) - is that one of the six notes is the root/tonic/foundation/reference pitch.

    The Miller/Goodrick book isn't about six note sets, it is about six note subsets of seven note sets (and more particularly, about the different ways one can split those six notes into three note clusters). An example would be C D E F G A B, but only working with D E F G A B (since another musician might be covering the C already). Yes, it is a set of six notes, but the root/tonic/foundation/reference pitch isn't included.

  9. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bryan T
    The Miller/Goodrick book isn't about six note sets, it is about six note subsets of seven note sets (and more particularly, about the different ways one can split those six notes into three note clusters)
    Yes, I agree the Miller/Goodrick book is a totally different concept, it's not Hexatonic Triad pairs.
    Guy


    This is Hexatonic Triad Pairs.

  10. #9

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    Hexatonics-hexatonic-triad-pair-use-jpg

    Hexatonic scale Triad Pair usage.
    Guy

  11. #10
    My first attempt with Goodricks GMC book I started writing etudes to hear the uniquenes of each GMC voicing. Lol, it didn't take too long before I realized that these GMC voicing are all with the same six tones, they all sound the same for single note lines.
    The name of the book set me straight, "Creative CHORDAL Harmony"
    It really is about these cool voicings and new harmonic territory.
    Or at least that's what I have resolved to.
    Singles lines with the GMC concept will have to wait until the chordal concept is studied and learned.

  12. #11
    Those are triad pair names but I don't see what chords they are played against.
    Could you list the situations you would play specific pitch collections.

    I'm with you here, this is good stuff to talk about, the differences in Goodrick and Vincent ideas.

  13. #12

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    If you explore the academic literature on music theory, you'll find quite a bit on theory and application of hexatonic scales in lots of different musical styles.

    Last edited by Bryan T; 01-11-2013 at 12:45 PM.

  14. #13
    I've seen Jerry Bergonzi's book on Hexatonics, I own his pentatonics book, I have to say triad pairs and hexatonics as well as the GMC concept is all new to my world in the last two years.
    I suppose I could have got into Bergonzi's book but I didn't. So many studies, so little time. Lol
    Now I want to check out the Bergonzi book now but it's been long gone at the store. Also I am deffinatly more attracted to guitar based books that talk about these ideas on my chosen instrument.

    This is the year I'm going to get up to speed on all music things dealing with the number six or 3x3=6.

    Trying to be humorous, don't take me too seriously.

  15. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by GuyBoden
    This is Hexatonic Triad Pairs.
    Hah! I was hoping this guy would talk about where you can use this pair (G, A) but he merely says, "play in whenever you are in D major".

  16. #15

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    Randy is talking more avoid note, not triad pairs for his basic hexatonic scales. Of course he goes over the triad pairs, but he starts with major scale avoid 4, minor avoid 6, mel min avoid 4. I find this pretty easy to get into, but I have some challenges with the phrasing techniques he suggests, I need to woodshed those things.

  17. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by cubistguitar
    Randy is talking more avoid note, not triad pairs for his basic hexatonic scales. Of course he goes over the triad pairs, but he starts with major scale avoid 4, minor avoid 6, mel min avoid 4. I find this pretty easy to get into, but I have some challenges with the phrasing techniques he suggests, I need to woodshed those things.
    Avoid D over an A minor chord? Or was that about the altered scale: avoid Db over G alt? Couldn't have been Lydian dominant: avoid G over G7#11?! I'm not sure I get any of those. I thought the melodic minor scale had no "avoid" notes.

  18. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles
    Avoid D over an A minor chord? Or was that about the altered scale: avoid Db over G alt? Couldn't have been Lydian dominant: avoid G over G7#11?! I'm not sure I get any of those. I thought thmelodic minor scale had no "avoid" notes.
    .

    Right, im using avoid too liberally, mel min doesnt usually suggest avoid notes. But the lined are based on what i am saying. Randy doesn't use avoid in his book. It just seemed very similar to avoid. If you look at it like that the only diff between maj or mel min lines is the third. Very compelling lines no matter how i bungle the discussion of them.

  19. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by ASATcat
    What gets me is that Randy has analyzed all these players and saw the common use of hexatonic ideas.
    So far in Line Games I'm playing Pass, Wes and Martino lines that show real life use of hexatonics.
    I find it interesting that Randy is talking about how Joe Pass used hexatonics yet Pass didn't know he was doing it.
    Hexatonics and triad pairs ideas were not in the thinking of those early players, but it was in there playing.
    Isn't somebody going to jump in and say that these ideas are automatically suspect because they apply an artificial theory to a sound the Masters developed by ear?

    Or is this artificial theory okay?

  20. #19

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    Don't define theory. It has more mojo without one.

  21. #20

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    In addition to the excellent books referenced above, there's also Gary Campbell - Connecting Jazz Theory which explores improvising with triads in depth and has some great solos written out using the concept over well known progressions. Highly recommended!