Harmonic Environments (Key Signatures for Ambiguous Chords)

[JonnyPac]

Greetings y'all!

I dig the idea of "harmonic environments" as in "this measure is a 3-flat environment" when the chord contains lots of notes (polychords) and there is an alternate bass note (or two!), etc.

The "sus" chords in many tunes are much more in the ballpark of slash chords than "sus" chords (not simply 1 4 5 b7 from a given Mixolydian mode). The chord C/D in Maiden Voyage often gets written as D7sus though it seems much more like a "no sharps or flats" environment than a "one sharp" environment. The next chord sounds like a "two flats" environment; it gets called Emaj7#11/F Cm11/F and F9sus- In any case, there is a lot of room to negotiate the spelling and superimposition of structures over the F pedal.

Those Phrygian sus b9 chords that get fussed over a lot are easy to think of in these terms. A7susb9 is a "one flat" environment.

This is not a grounds to truly play "pan-diatonic", or go recklessly generalizing by playing a scale over the chord without paying heed to the tonal hierarchy- it is just a way of seeing the bigger pool to pull smaller structures from, and may open up some creative possibilities.

It is also common to reinterpret and/or renegotiate the given environment to get different results. I like finding the "inside" one first, and then choosing more colorful ones if I am unsatisfied with how it sounds or want variety.

Your thoughts!

[JonnyPac]

BTW I don't mean to say that these diatonic chords are all that ambiguous- They just don't have clear names, much like "fourth chords", etc. True ambiguity in jazz is another thing altogether. Here's a related thread:
http://www.jazzguitar.be/forum/theor...ique-jazz.html

[JakeAcci]

Hmm, a few things:

I guess I've come to see C/D and D7sus4 as pretty much synonymous in a jazz context. In fact, whenever I see D7sus4 I pretty much always think about Am7 or C or Cmaj7 all with a D bass note. I would probably rarely play a voicing that was strictly 1 4 5 b7...honestly if I did, I'd probably be thinking of those notes as they relate to the Am7 or C.

With something like A7sus4b9 I just think of it as Em7b5/A or Bbmaj7b5/A

Sometimes that perspective leads to seeing an automatic function...for example, in both cases it's pretty obvious what you're dealing with if you have a progression that goes:

A7sus4b9 A7b9 Dm

Or

D7sus4 D7 Gmaj7

It's clear in both cases you're just dealing with ii V with a pedal point.

Sometimes the function isn't that clear, or maybe there is no function, or maybe knowing the function isn't really important because the composer more so just wanted "color" and functional harmony is irrelevant.

I feel like you're talking more about the "less clear function" scenario.

I'm not really sure what you're saying about the key signatures. How is that different than saying "think about dorian first" or "think about mixolydian first?"

it is just a way of seeing the bigger pool to pull smaller structures from, and may open up some creative possibilities.

I guess it's just personal preference/approach that since I feel all 12 tones are always available, I like to minimize my options to start. I don't like how my solos sound when I start off the bat playing with seven note chord scales, but that's just personal preference - I feel like too much is given away, the sound is too general.

In other words, the smaller structures are already there - in both the chord and the melody (and maybe whatever notes in whatever voicing the comper is playing) and I feel like that's great material for improvisation to start with.

Going back to the key signature thing though, I am curious what you mean about that.

[JonnyPac]

I know that many jazz horn and piano players learn to sight-read as kids in band and then usually develop improv abilities after they mature a bit (starting in teens, etc). By contrast, it is fare to say that guitar players hit chords and tabs long before the buckle down and learn the dots and lines... Key signatures are a huge part of reading well, and it affects their concept of improvisation because it sets them up to think something like, "this tune will mostly use these 7 notes and a few accidentals (to fit some borrowed chords and/or make connections/embellishments)". That thinking is way different than running minor pentatonic scales over everything and assuming it sounds good if you give it "feel" and play with speed. Guitarists often have to mature a lot to tackle the details of jazz- theory, reading, vocabulary, etc.

By approaching the key signature (written or temporarily implied), but not the tonal center (tonic chords), we can shed light on a few complex diatonic chords (extended with alternate bass notes) and find the hierarchies within in an organic, intuitive way that has a high probability of working well. It's just another "way in" that can be useful, IMHO. Take it or leave it.

[Jazzaluk]

Originally Posted by JonnyPac

By approaching the key signature (written or temporarily implied), but not the tonal center (tonic chords), we can shed light on a few complex diatonic chords (extended with alternate bass notes) and find the hierarchies within in an organic, intuitive way that has a high probability of working well. It's just another "way in" that can be useful, IMHO. Take it or leave it.

Leavin" it.

[JakeAcci]

Oh I think I get what you're saying. What I take away from it is, if you have C/D (or D7sus4, or any similar notation) you could say "D mixo" but that gives priority to the D note as the root or tonal center. But you say "one sharp" and there is no hierarchy implied. Something like that?

[JonnyPac]

I read a cool analysis of Miles soloing over a F7sus in one of the 2nd quintet tunes. The author described Miles "negotiating" the harmony. He played with a "4 flats" pitch collection in the first chorus (implying Fm11(b6) aka Aeolian notes), used a "3 flats" on the second (implying Fm11 Dorian notes), and then "2 flats" (implying F13sus Mixolydian notes, even playing the M3 clearly over the P4). Note this is from my memory- the exact order of the choruses might have been different, but you get the idea.

This was a great example of how sus4 can be a lot more than just a Mixolydian chord with the P4 in place of the M3- and Miles did not go totally free 12 notes- he structured the alternate harmonies so that only one was stated per chorus. It's a great top-down meets bottom-up way of thinking about chords and scales in modal/tonal hybrid tunes, IMHO.

[JonnyPac]

Originally Posted by Jazzaluk

Leavin" it.

Sorry if I lost ya!