Diatonic and non diatonic scales

[LvJz]

So the major scale and it's modes are diatonic. Is the harmonic minor and it's modes, and the melodic minor and it's modes non diatonic?

For example D harmonic minor, you need both a sharp and flat sign to notate it. Because you're mixing the signs, does that mean it's non diatonic?

What about melodic minor, because that adhere's to the 5 whole tones and 2 semitones rule. So I think that is diatonic.

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

Depends who you ask: Diatonic and chromatic - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[LvJz]

Thank you. I hate it when there's no clear answer lol. So basically the key word here (pun not intended) is "context."

[Nuff Said]

Originally Posted by LvJz

So the major scale and it's modes are diatonic.

I'd say if the scale contains all the notes from the parent scale, its a diatonic scale.

But this just my thoughts
Nuff

Example: The Melodic Minor:

"Each of the twelve melodic minor scales contains seven diatonic seventh chords— one chord built from each of the notes in the scale. "

Guitar Sessions Blog Archive Diatonic Seventh Chords From the Melodic Minor Scale

[AmundLauritzen]

I agree with Nuff. Personally, I use the term to organize my knowledge. It's good for organizing chord and arpeggio substitutions, and I use it in that way for melodic minor as well as the major and minor scales.
Some people will insist that the term "diatonic" can only be applied to the major scale and its modes.
Well, for discussion with other people it's certainly good to have a common consensus in nomenclature, but for personal use I just find whatever label I like and use that.

[Double 07]

The definition is a bit murky. ??? The best I've found (from the jazz bulletin board):

"Diatonic. (1) A *scale with seven different pitches (heptatonic) that are adjacent to one another on the *circle of fifths; thus, one in which each letter name represents only a single pitch and which is made up of whole tones and semitones arranged in the pattern embodied in the white keys of the piano *keyboard; hence, any major or pure minor scale and any church *mode, as distinct from the *chromatic scale, which employs only semitones. (2) Melody or harmony that employs primarily the pitches of a diatonic scale. (3) The genus of the music of ancient *Greece [see also Chromatic, Enharmonic] that employs a *tetrachord constructed from a whole tone, a semitone, and a whole tone. See also Pandiatonicism.

The New Harvard Dictionary of Music - 1986

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from this reasonably reputable source, i would infer that any pitch set that does not conform to at least one of the major scale key signatures is not diatonic; therefore, neither the non-pure forms of the minor scale (harmonic, ascending melodic) nor the blues scale are diatonic."

Sound reasonable?

[brwnhornet59]

MM and HM are not diatonic in relationship to the Major scale.

However they are diatonic unto themselves when drawing from the note collection of the parent key of said scale.