Ideas for Playing Blues

[the*doctor]

Hey everyone,
A couple of weeks ago I joined a jazz band at the conservatorium. It's fairly simple tunes that we're playing, because I only got into jazz playing about a year ago.

Anyway, we've mainly been playing blues tunes and the book that we've been playing out of suggests the scale to use over each song and it outlines the simple chord progression.

So I was just looking for some ideas to spice it up a little and keep it more interesting.

One of the progressions is just a basic 12 bar blues :
F7 Bb7 F7 F7
Bb7 Bb7 F7 F7
C7 Bb7 F7 F7

So using this as the basis for answers, what different scales, arpeggios, etc. could I play for the improv. And what kind of chord substitutions and extensions could I Play to make the rhythm parts more interesting.

Thanks in advance for the replies,
And please don't make anything too complicated

[FatJeff]

Well, the classic answer is to use Mixolydian over dominant 7ths. So for this, you would just play notes from the F mix, Bb mix, and C mix scales wherever those chords appear.

However, that will more than likely end up sounding contrived. Especially in the blues, you will need to incorporate "blue" notes (e.g. b3 and b5) - much experimentation is required to discover what sounds good and what doesn't. My blues improv has gotten to the point where it actually sounds pretty good now, but it's taken me a couple of years and a buttload of study. I'm just now starting to incorporate the dominant-diminished scale into my blues and it is really making a difference in the "hipness factor" of my playing.

Don Mock has a good DVD called something like "The blues from rock to jazz" that's got a lot of valuable information in it. The Fareed Haque course on comping at TrueFire also has some great voicings to comp the blues with.

The classic way of learning, of course, is to listen to alot of blues by jazz players & transcribe them. Good places to start are Lester Young "Back To The Land," Clifford Brown "Sandu," and pretty much any Miles Davis blues cover (e.g. "Trane's Blues"). And of course, Wes Montgomery playing "No Blues" at the Half Note, if you can handle it! :-)

[FatJeff]

Oh yeah, forgot to mention: the Barry Galbraith book on comping has several blues in it that will really deepen your understanding of comping behind the blues, if you put in the effort.

[brwnhornet59]

There are a lot of ways you can add to this. Since everything is Dom, there are tons of tensions going on.

3-9 arps would be quite useful in giving you the Dom 9 sound. Play A-7b5 against the F7,
D-7b5 against the Bb7 and E-7b5 against the C7. The become rootless Dom 9 arps.

You could also play EbM7#11 against the F7, AbM7#11 against the Bb7 and BbM7#11 against the C7. This will give you the 9/13 sound.

The chords work the same way the arps do.

on measure 6 you could make the Bb7 into Bb7b9. I like putting the b9 in the bass making it a rootless Bb7b9, (B Dim).

You can also imply the jazz blues turnarounds if you can get the Bass player on board. Same if there is a Keyboard player.

For scales try Lydian Dom or the Dom Bebop scale. There are lots of other scales that would fit. How far out do you want to go?

[the*doctor]

Thanks for the reply fatjeff, I'll definitely give that a go. It doesn't sound too difficult. I'll see if I can check out the books and DVDs as well.

Brwnhornet59, thanks for the stuff to work on. I've just got a few questions.
What are 3-9 arps?
With the Lydian Dom and Dom bebop scales, would I change scale for each chord, or the same scale over entire piece?

Also I wouldn't want to start bossing the piano and bass players around, not yet anyway

And I don't mind going out a bit, I really like dissonance in songs. But just nothing over the top that sounds completely wrong.

My teacher also told me that you can sidestep up or down a fret on the 4th bar and return to the root on the 5th, is that a good thing to do? And If so, are there any other examples of when I can do this or something similar?

Also, keep the chord ideas coming as well. They're really good.

Cheers

[brwnhornet59]

You will not have to boss them around, just clue them in on what you would like to do with your solo.

As for 3-9 arps, in this instance you are using the 3,5,b7,9 of each chord. By playing the -7b5 arps over the Dom chords you are doing just that. The -7b5 arps start on the 3rd of each Dom. See it?

As for Lydian dom, yes play each scale over each chord. Like Jeff said, you will need to experiment to find what sounds good. Look at the #4 as being a blue note. You can experiment with the Dom scale and add a natural 7 as a blue note. Or a b3 or a b6 etc....

Side stepping is fine. You can do it in other places as well. I think that you have enough to work on for now. As you get these ideas in your head and under your fingers, we can move onto some other cool ideas if you like.

[the*doctor]

Ok thanks, I think I have plenty to work on now!

[JonR]

The common thing to do with the chords in blues is tritone subs. IOW, as F7 is going to Bb7, stick in a B7 or B9 on the last beat.
IOW, precede any chord you like with a dom7 a half-step above.
As a bII (substituting for a V) the scale would be lydian dominant, but you're not likely to have the time to explore it (on 1 beat?). An arpeggio is all you need, but that could include a 9, #11 and/or 13, as long as they resolve neatly on to chord tones on the next chord.

Dim7 arps from the 3rd of the chord are good too (again, for a V chord as it moves to I - which applies to F7>Bb7 as well as to C7>F7).

One thing to realise about blues is the dom7 chords have a dual function. From one perspective, they have no dominant function at all. Eg the IV7 chord is not dominant in any functional way. Neither is the I7: except as it moves to IV.
The main reason b7s are added to I and IV chords in blues is to reflect the blues scale. (The b7 on the IV is actually the b3 of the key.)

The most extreme example of chord subs in a blues * is probably Charlie Parker's "Blues For Alice" (and I think he used the same changes in one or two others):

|Fmaj7 - - - |Em7b5 - A7 - |Dm7 - G7 - |Cm7 - F7 - |
|Bb7 - - - |Bbm7 - Eb7 - |Am7 - D7 - |Abm7 - Db7 - |
|Gm7 - - - |C7 - - - |Am7 - D7 - |Gm7 - C7 - |

That's key of F, but F only occurs once! (except for end of bar 4) All that remains of the blues format is the IV chord in bar 5, and the ii-V in bars 9-10. And of course the 12-bar format. These are enough to make it recognisable as a blues, although - IMO - it doesn't actually sound "bluesy" any more. You'd have trouble using blues scale over much of that!
Mostly it's circle progressions (backcycled dominants, secondary dominants with their ii chords added in), or tritone subs.

A simpler "jazz blues" sequence would be:
|F7 - - -|Bb7 - - - |F7 - - - |Cm7 - F7 B9 |
|Bb9 - - - |Bdim7 - - - | F7 - - - |D7 - - - |
|Gm7 - - - |C7 - - - |F - Dm7 - |Gm7 - C7 - |


* Actually, even more impenetrable theoretically are the chords to Charles Mingus's Goodbye Pork Pie Hat, which is definitely a slow blues in mood and format (and melody), but some very strange chords.

[Helgo]

Hi *doctor.

I want to suggest that you simply record yourself playing two or three (or, of course, more) solo chorusses over that blues progression on a daily basis.

Playing and listening back to it will make you realize what works for you and what doesn´t. And I bet it will show you good and bad things about your playing that you don´t know about at the moment.

To me, that is really essential. Record yourself and listen to it.



Knowing about theoretic possibilities is really nice and helpful, imho even necessary up to a certain point. But thinking about playing the blues will not make you a better blues player. Same goes for jazz standards and really anything. It took me about 10 years to finally figure that out
(YMMV, of course)

Cheers,
H.


ps: If you don´t have any recording equipment I think you should invest in some. Decent equipment comes at very low prices nowadays.
As for backing tracks the internet has a lot and you can email me, I will be glad to share some backingtracks with you.

[JonR]

Originally Posted by Helgo

Hi *doctor.

I want to suggest that you simply record yourself playing two or three (or, of course, more) solo chorusses over that blues progression on a daily basis.

Playing and listening back to it will make you realize what works for you and what doesn´t. And I bet it will show you good and bad things about your playing that you don´t know about at the moment.

To me, that is really essential. Record yourself and listen to it.

Great advice.

In a sense there are TWO essential processes:

1. Listen to the kind of music you want to play. Long and hard. Absorb the vibe, play along, copy what you can.

2. Listen to yourself trying to play like that. Make any corrections necessary.

"Theory" is what comes in between, and may (or may not!) help you on your way. (It should help, of course, but can sometimes take you down irrelevant sidetracks...) But the proof is always in the listening, judging by ear.

For recording I use Audacity, which is free, and dead easy to use:
Audacity: Download
If you play electric, and have an FX unit or amp with a line-out, you don't need an audio interface; you can just plug the line-out into the line-in on your computer (assuming you have a line-in of course ).
Alternatively, many FX units these days come with USB connections.

For listening to commercial recordings (including slowing down, looping, pitch changing, and other manipulation of audio tracks) I use Transcribe, which is free for a month, and then $39 to register:
Seventh String Software - the home of Transcribe!

(Transcribe won't edit audio, btw, but Audacity will.)

[Reg]

here's a old video I made for Sailor of a blues he posted in F, with a few examples of comping. The first one I believe was a blues with implied V chord... never actually play a V chord. The end is more standard Blues...Reg
Ideas for Blues in F for Sailor - YouTube

[Sailor]

Thanks again Reg...good to re-visit this ... and I also saw the link to Bags Groove which I missed before. MUCH better version than mine

Sailor

[Little Jay]

Try also this on the simple 3-chord blues-progression:
C minor pentatonic over the F7 chord
F minor pentatonic over the Bb7 chord
G minor pentatonic over the C7 chord

Instant Wes-blues flavour!
(You can also extend the minor pentatonic scales to the 8-note minor scale, but minor pentatonic has a nice flavour I think)

[jmstritt]

There is a thread going on right now called Blues Chord Substitutions in the chords, comping, and progressions, area of the forum. Matt Warnock has an article on his website that goes into great detail and offers a lot of insight into different subs that you can play over a blues.

Also, LISTEN!!! Practically every jazz artist in the history of the world has recorded a blues or two. Try to absorb as much as you can through listening. Some of the concepts that have been suggested here might sound strange at first if you aren't used to hearing them, especially if you are new to jazz. Listen to people that have really mastered Jazz/Blues, guys like Charlie Parker, Wes Montgomery, Miles Davis, Jimmy Smith/Kenny Burrell, John Coltrane, etc.

One of the best sayings that I ever heard... "You have to expand your ears before you can expand your mind."

[brwnhornet59]

Originally Posted by jmstritt

There is a thread going on right now called Blues Chord Substitutions in the chords, comping, and progressions, area of the forum. Matt Warnock has an article on his website that goes into great detail and offers a lot of insight into different subs that you can play over a blues.

Matt's lessons and the way he conveys these ideas are worth their weight in platinum!

[Kman]

If your new to the blues try using the major blues scale for most of it, but switch to the minor pentatonic scale on the IV chord and the turnaround. That should get you going.

[the*doctor]

cool, thanks for the replies.
INFORMATION OVERLOAD!

JonR: Interesting ideas and good examples thanks. Also I have this slow downer app on my ipod that I use sometimes if I'm trying to transcribe something.

Helgo: I'll definitely have to start recording myself more. I have an
old emac with audacity on it and there's a line out on my amp.

Reg: There were good ideas in the vid, Cheers.

Kman: That's a nice and easy one to try, it'll be good.

Also thanks little jay & jmstritt for the suggestions. I listen to jazz & blues all the time, so there's no worries about not listening enough. I've only had my ipod for 2 and a half months and have clocked up 25 days, 6 hours, 55 minutes and 3 seconds of listening time!

I'll print this thread off so that I can refer to it when practicing.

Cheers