Concert pitch

[LvJz]

Is this correct. The guitar sounds an octave lower than written.

Middle C is one ledger line below the staff, which guitarists play at 3rd fret, 5th string. But to get that middle C to sound as concert middle C would I have to transpose up an octave to the 5th fret 3rd string?

[hed_b94]

Yes! the guitar is actually quite low.

[LvJz]

Great! Thanx for clarifying.

[mtierney]

It's funny because we're also often able to have a huge amount of ledger lines above the staff... I feel like although it's space consuming it would be easier to read a bass and treble clef (like a piano) at concert pitch so the low E would be one ledger line below the bass clef and the 12th fret of the high e wouldn't even quite have a ledger line.

Just a thought!

[LvJz]

^ Guess that's why we have 8va.

[JonR]

Originally Posted by mtierney

It's funny because we're also often able to have a huge amount of ledger lines above the staff... I feel like although it's space consuming it would be easier to read a bass and treble clef (like a piano) at concert pitch so the low E would be one ledger line below the bass clef and the 12th fret of the high e wouldn't even quite have a ledger line.

Just a thought!

Yes - a thought I had myself way back. Guitar (in concert) fits very neatly on to piano double stave. But I doubt many guitarists would enjoy having to read that! (Most of them have enough problems with single staff... )
All instruments range well outside the staff they're written on, which is only designed to show the middle range of the instrument, in order to save space. (Piano itself will of course go many ledger lines above and below its two staves - much more than guitar!)
The additional point about piano is that it's two-handed: one staff for each hand.
IOW, while there is a certain logic to piano 2-stave for guitar, it would be wasteful and cumbersome in practice. Much of it would go unused, and it would take up (nearly) twice as much space on the page. (We have 8va for lengthy high passages.)

Another thought is that guitar fits very well on alto clef (middle C on central line) or tenor clef (middle C on 4th line up). But again, that would put guitar in a very exclusive ghetto (occupied by viola, and occasionally cello or trombone). It's much more useful for guitar to be able to read stuff like vocal music.

In fact, the correct name for the guitar's octave-transposed treble clef is in fact a tenor clef - because of course it no longer covers treble register, but tenor register. It's just that tenor register can be indicated by either a C clef (as usual) or a G clef (as on guitar, and male vocal).
The guitar's "tenor G clef" is sometimes distinguished from the concert "treble G clef" with a small "8" tagged on the bottom. (A rarer variant is to have two G clefs side by side.)

The guitar is in fact a mid-range instrument: middle C is roughly in the middle of its range, just as it is on piano. The other fact I like about the range of guitar is it more or less exactly covers all the classical vocal ranges. Its low E is bottom of bass voice, and its top C is top of soprano.

Bass guitar too, btw, sounds an octave lower than written. But I don't know if the "F" clef ever has a little 8 stuck on to indicate the transposition.

[brad4d8]

Originally Posted by JonR

Guitar (in concert) fits very neatly on to piano double stave. But I doubt many guitarists would enjoy having to read that! (Most of them have enough problems with single staff... )

Johnny Smith advocated this and his method is written that way, unless somebody has revised it recently.
Brad

[LvJz]

Thanks for the answers as always.

Is the C that I play at the 3rd fret 5th string known as C3, and the one an octave higher C4?... and I'm not talking about explosives.

[JonR]

Originally Posted by LvJz

Thanks for the answers as always.

Is the C that I play at the 3rd fret 5th string known as C3, and the one an octave higher C4?... and I'm not talking about explosives.

Generaly speaking, yes: middle C = C4.
But there are different systems:
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