String Sets And Inversions

[brwnhornet59]

Originally Posted by richard vandyne

hornet- i ve been studying your e mail and have a couple of questions. in your examples you said to go to the next mode - dorian- why is it dorian and not some other one? are the modes in some special order ??? also how did you jump to the D flat. there is no D flat in the lydian mode. i see a D flat in the mixo and dorian but not in the lydian. besides the D flat is way down from the 1 3 5 7. when i go to other keys are all the modes pyregian - is b.lydian is B FLAT etc

Richard, I take it you have not looked at many books on theory. It is really just basic math.

Eb Lydian does not have a Db. I did not see anywhere that I wrote Db, but if I did, it was a typo.

Yes the modes are in a very specific order, and each mode refers to a specific chord and modal scale. Here is the order and the chords and modes built from the Eb major scale.

Ionian EbMaj7
1 3 5 7
Eb F G Ab Bb C D

Dorian F-7
1 b3 5 b7
F G Ab Bb C D Eb

Phrygian G-7
1 b3 5 b7
G Ab Bb C D Eb F

Lydian AbMaj7
1 3 5 7
Ab Bb C D Eb F G

Myxolydian Bb7
1 3 5 b7
Bb C D Eb F G Ab

Aeolian C-7
1 b3 5 b7
C D Eb F G Ab Bb

Locrain D-7b5
1 b3 b5 b7
D Eb F G Ab Bb C

Regardless of key, the order does not vary. Each note of the Major scale is equal to one of these modes.

The Eb major scale, Eb F G Ab Bb C D

In this example Eb is Ionian, the first note of the Eb Major scale.

F is Dorian, the 2nd note of the Eb scale

G is Phrygian, the 3rd note of the Eb scale

Ab is Lydian, the 4th note of the Eb scale

Bb is Myolydian, the 5th note of the Eb scale

C is Aeolian, the 6th note of the Eb scale

D is Locrian, the 7th note of the Eb scale.

Understand?


What made the other example different was that we kept the root of the chord the same but altered its placement in the sequence of the modes. It was always Eb in every mode. By keeping the root Eb, the parent key changed every time we built a new chord. By doing the 7 modes using Eb as a root, we cycled through 7 different keys.

This example that I just wrote stays in the parent key of Eb while cycling through the modes, so we used every note in the Eb scale to make each mode.

[richard vandyne]

brwnhornet- the dawn comes- completely different than what i was doing. you are right i haven,t read many theory books. i have been doing things as i did them 30 years age. never heard about modes until a few months age. anyway- as i read it any time i change keys i should take the key notes and place them in the order of the modes you showed me and then get my chord notes from there-correct?? as a side note i hasve a chance to pick up a epi es175 cheap in new condition. what is your opinion of this guitar.

[brwnhornet59]

Hey Richard, I did not mean to imply anything in a nasty way, I hope you did not take it that way. I was very tired when I wrote that last post.

As for the key changing idea, my answer is yes it is important to know what parent key you are implying and the notes that are in the collection. A lot of these chords are found in other parallel keys, as was mentioned earlier.

Some chords like the minor triad or the -7 chord, show no obvious difference of their origin when you are playing either them, because they share a parallel existence in three parent keys. The only way to understand it is to analyze chord changes and learn to see how this occurs.

The minor chord and the -7 chord will not show you much until you see what their upper extensions consist of. For instance,

D-7 could come from the parent key of C. If so it is D Dorian, the second note and mode of C major.

D-7 could be from the key of Bb. If it was it would be D phrygian, the 3rd note and mode of Bb major.

D-7 could be from the key of F. If it does it would be D Aeolian, the 6th note and mode of the F major scale. Make sense?

Now the spelling of D-7, root, minor 3rd, fifth, flat 7, is identical in all three keys. Where they separate is when you extend out through the, 9th, 11th, 13th.



Here is what two of the three chords look like when we do this. I will also include the scale of the mode and the parent key.

D Dorian scale, the 2nd mode of C is spelled like this.

D, E, F, G, A, B, C

Notice how there are no sharps or flats. Notice how the notes are identical to the C major scale. The only difference is we are starting on the note D.

Now from that scale, build the chord. Extend the chord to to include the 9th, 11th and 13th.

Here we go.

D, F, A, C, .........E, G, B,

Those are the notes of the D Dorian chord.

1, b3, 5, b7,.......9, 11, 13


We will now do the same with D Phrygian. The notes of the D phrygian scale are this.


D, Eb, F, G, A, Bb, C.

Notice that this mode has two flats. That indicates that the parent key is Bb. D is the third note of Bb. That means we are doing the 3rd mode of Bb, D Phrygian. The above scale is Bb major....it just started on the Bb major scale's 3rd, D.

Make sense? From the above scale we will build the D phrygian chord. We will extend it to the 13th. Ready? Here are the notes of the D Phrygian chord.

D, F, A, C.........Eb, G, Bb

1, b3, 5, b7.......b9, 11, b13

Notice how the first 4 notes are identical to the spelling of D Dorian's Chord.

Now as we look at the 9, 11th and 13th, the difference is clear.

D Phrygian has a b9 AND a b13. Notice that D Dorian had neither of those interval's. Making more sense?

So now you see that even though they may sound similar, they are very different in their full extensions and functions.

Now, I want you to build the last D-7 chord and scale of the mode that is left.

Take your time, think it through. When you are done post it and we will go over it together, Ok?

The only way to learn this stuff and REALLY understand it is to do it yourself. I have given you the tools. It is up to you now, to move to the next level.

Good luck!!


BTW, if you can get that Epiphone for a good price, by all means, if you have the extra $ do it!

[EightString]

Originally Posted by EightString

Here's a great exercise for getting a flowing comping style that works well when playing with other musicians:

1) Pick a jazz standard, preferably one you already know the changes to.

2) Using ONLY the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th strings (B-G-D), figure out a voice-leading arrangement of that standard with a general guideline of including at LEAST the 3/6 or 3/7 of each chord.

3) Here's the kicker: try to confine your fingers for the ENTIRE song to within the range of 5 frets.


For the above exercise, it's very important to NOT refer to chord diagrams. By using your ears and fretboard knowledge to build your own chord shapes that "flow" into one another, you will very quickly start to "get" this stuff at a fundamental level.


At some point, I'll post a couple of simple transcriptions.

Okay, here's a follow up with a simple (and I mean SIMPLE) example of what I'm talking about, using the Andre/Schwandt/Kahn song's chord changes:

Dream a Little Dream PDF

Just straight quarter-note triads, no swing, minimal variation, no extensions on the E-string, etc.

This sample is meant to be simple, and is only demonstrating the principle of voice leading with simple triads on three strings, within a 5 fret range. This 5 fret limitation even holds true for the modulation to Fmaj7 during the B-section starting at bar 17.

Another note: since this example is meant for comping in a group, for the most part, the root of each chord is not played in these triads.

If you have not yet sat down and constructed your own voice leading arrangements of some standards, this can be a huge learning experience.


Anyone notice any errors, let me know. I threw this together very quickly.