First comes the music, then comes the theory

[Vihar]

Originally Posted by mattymel

As long as there is a "release" it worked. 99% of all theory is useless if rhythm isnt strong, which is the downfall of 98% of all guitarists.

Two great points.

[mattymel]

i think that THE single most overlooked aspect of improvising is THE FORM. when alot of people start getting into transcribing they will do all their harmonic analysis as if Bird or Trane (or whoever) are always playing every chord on every 1st or 3rd beat of every measure, when in reality they are thinking more elastic. they know very well where the chord is, but they will sometimes anticipate or even delay chords 2 or 3 beats early/late. sometimes as much as 1 whole measure.

this combined with a strong rhythmic concept basically throws most theory out the window, at least in the way that most people are approaching it (looking at a transcription and trying to make sense of an E played on the down of 1 over a Eb minor, etc).

i totally agree that jazz (in its purest form) is much closer to a folk music. but in the same way that indian classical music is folk. there are disciplines that are required to be competent, much less GREAT. but the true masters have always left the "theory" behind. i always like to say that the term music "theory" is basically admitting right within the term that you can THEORETICALLY make sense out of music. but at the end of the day, it either works or it doesnt. and that can basically be decided by any listening person and hopefully one that likely has no notion that there even is such a thing as music theory.

and people wonder why nobody but other players buy jazz records anymore.

[Billnc]

Originally Posted by jzucker

theory is simple. About as difficult as a multiplication table. Some folks need to make it complex with 12 pointed stars and geometric shapes and ... err ... terms like dodecaphonics (guilty as charged).

But really, nobody should be afraid of it. If you can read a novel you can read music and understand theory.

See, I saw the 12 point star as substitutions etc right away (augmented and diminished patterns) and how they relate to the fretboard in lines. I could take what I hear and move it around and learn to hear it in new ways and functions.

I gave it to a friend of mine and it just gave him a headache.

I also very strongly view theory as NOT analysis, but rather things you can do in a given situation. The more we learn how to manipulate sound the better our 'theory'. A visual artist who studies perspective will do some things better than a folk artist. Both may be really good artists. Grandma Moses was no Rembrandt but she was no slacker either.