Passing chords

[billkath]

So-tonight I will mainly be practicing putting a I augmented chord between the I and the iim7.

Here's the thing-what's normal here, in the real world? I mean-should I really be thinking (for example) C+7, or C+ (with 4 fingers) or a C+ triad (R,3 #5)? Naturally, I'll be learning as many shapes as possible, but what I really want to know is-if you see C+ on a sheet is it normal to play C+7? My ear wants to hear that 7th, you see, as it's leading somewhere-but my ears are notorious for putting in inappropriate 7ths!
Thanks, Lads, and Ladettes.

[docbop]

I'd say what's normal would be a diminished chord, but hey its Jazz so anything goes. I would probably start experimenting with a 7+5.

Normal you would use a diminished because it will sound like a V of II, II being the next chord.

Let us know what works for you.

[billkath]

Did the b III diminished yesterday, Doc, and the #1 diminished the night before. I'm up to passing chords 3 today To tell you the truth-he doesn't really go into depth about which one to use-he says that, although not used as widely as diminished passing chords, they're used in lots of progressions. He say that fingering can be a problem, so pick what's good for you (between the C+,the triad and the C+7 (Which is just a homonym for 7+5, yes?). Bit confusing!

[JonnyPac]

Not sure what lessons you are doing. Here's my input though...

Really think about why the passing chords is there. In the C | passing chord | Dm7 progression, like doc says, the passing chord is V7 of ii (or III7 the way I teach). The HM scale is first stop (pre-reharmonization); V of ii is A Phrygian dominant scale (D HM). This scale has 1 3 5 b7 as lower chord tones, and b9 (#9) and b13 as upper extensions. A rootless A7b9 looks like C#dim7; and a rootless A7b13 looks like a C#+ aug triad.

The important thing is that they are not really C# chords. They are rootless A7 chords, IMHO. They can be reharmonized as A7 ALT (MM) or Eb Lydian Dom to get bop and post-bop sounds too.

I hope that helps. Good luck!

[billkath]

Thanks Johnny-but not really what I was looking for. I understand the function (or am starting to understand the function) of passing chords.

What I really want to know is when you see C+ on a chart, is it normal to play C+, or is it more normal to play C7+ (or C7+5). Not necessarily as a passing chord, but just if it appears on a song chart. Would C7+5 be a normal substitution for a C+, like a Cmaj7 or C6 would be a normal substitution for a G major chord-see what I'm saying? I'm not talking about soloing at all-I'm talking about playing rhythm-say on a big band, or on a small combo that'd have piano and rhythm gtr comping behind a soloist.

[JonnyPac]

C+ is the same as E+ and G#+, of course. They could be a altered dom7's in disguise. The root 3rd and +5 (b13) of some chord. It will determine if you can add a 7th or not if you know the function and parent chord. I started a thread on this last week. Check it out.

[billkath]

Cheers, Jonny-found the thread.

[docbop]

Originally Posted by billkath

Did the b III diminished yesterday, Doc, and the #1 diminished the night before. I'm up to passing chords 3 today To tell you the truth-he doesn't really go into depth about which one to use-he says that, although not used as widely as diminished passing chords, they're used in lots of progressions. He say that fingering can be a problem, so pick what's good for you (between the C+,the triad and the C+7 (Which is just a homonym for 7+5, yes?). Bit confusing!

In strictest sense if a chart say Caug it would mean just the augmented triad. But you could probably get away with C7 +5, just have to keep your ears and eyes open (upset arranger in the room.) So if in doubt play the ink, if you know the music and think the 7+5 will work go for it and listen.

[cosmic gumbo]

I have charts with aug and 7+5 in the same chart, so I figure aug is specifically requesting no 7.

[billkath]

Thanks lads! Cosmic-good point.