iim11 - bVIMaj9 - bII6 - IMaj13 and other weird changes...

[jckoto3]

Maybe I need to get my ears checked, but I think this little turnaround sounds pretty neat, though I can't really figure out *why*:

Dm11 (10 x 10 10 8 x)
AbMaj9 (x 11 10 12 11 x)
Db6 (9 x 8 10 9 x)
CMaj13 (8 x 9 9 10 x)

I have several variations in the old bag, but I'm at a loss as to why I am liking these type of changes so much. I don't really want to over-analyse it too much, but I'd like some thoughts about this -- is this a common device in some type of music? I'm getting a little early Bossa Nova vibe from it, but my knowledge of music in general could stand a little more breadth and depth.

That said, I've recently been thinking in terms of "groups of individual voices" rather than *per se* chords, and perhaps my ears are starting to "open up" to sounds I would have otherwise found to be unusual.

Thoughts? Other ideas of changes that are not so idiomatic, or even changes that are "really out there", but seem to work nonetheless?

[ksjazzguitar]

Well, if we must have an explanation, we can call the AbMaj9 a borrowed chord (modal mixture) from the parallel minor, Cm. And we can call the Db6 a Neapolitan 6 chord (or modal mixture from the parallel Phrygian.)

Or you can see that those two chords would be described as tritone subs (for the ii and V respectively), if they'd been dominant chords. So, all you've done is changed the chordal qualities on some tritone subs - a reharm of a sub, if you will.

It is not such a weird thing. The turnaround on "Ladybird" is probably the most famous example. I've heard Wes do similar things too.

As long as it sounds good, that's what's important. Theory can catch up later.

Peace,
Kevin

[Reg]

I like that Kevin... how about calling D-11... VII-7b5 ( 11 instead of b5) to IVmaj9 of Eb then duel function chord Db6 ( Db13 #11) standard bVII7 or SubV of modulation to CLyd. I mean with out a meoldy or more info... There are at least 24 possibilities
Are borrowed and modal mixture your terms for Modal Interchange... I'm use to borrowed, but modal mixture sounds like something from my sci-fy stuff... I like it...
jckot3... Sounds great to my ears... not weird by any means... what do you hear as the rest of the notes for each chord... all seven for each chord... that would make analysis very simple... Best Reg

[bako]

The sonic details of why it sounds good.
4 part // 3 part // 2 part // 1 part combinations

[ksjazzguitar]

Originally Posted by Reg

I like that Kevin... how about calling D-11... VII-7b5 ( 11 instead of b5) to IVmaj9 of Eb then duel function chord Db6 ( Db13 #11) standard bVII7 or SubV of modulation to CLyd. ...

I'm not sure I follow. But I'm sure there is more than one way to look at it. I tend to like as few steps as possible. To me, the bVI borrowed from minor and the bII Neapolitan are such harmonic cliches that it's easier for my brain to just go straight to them.

Originally Posted by Reg

Are borrowed and modal mixture your terms for Modal Interchange...

Yeah, my first school called it "borrowed chords" and my second called it "modal mixture," but "modal interchange" works fine. It probably just depends on where your teacher studied.

Peace,
Kevin

[jckoto3]

Originally Posted by ksjazzguitar

Well, if we must have an explanation, we can call the AbMaj9 a borrowed chord (modal mixture) from the parallel minor, Cm. And we can call the Db6 a Neapolitan 6 chord (or modal mixture from the parallel Phrygian.)

Wow, this just hit me like a ton of bricks! I've been using parallel scales for a long time in single-note lines (e.g. Ionian scale ascending, Mixo descending as a turnaround, or Lydian ascending and Phygrian descending in order to illustrate certain sounds/moods, etc) but it never quite dawned on me to borrow chords. This really opens up a whole new world of possibilities!

Or you can see that those two chords would be described as tritone subs (for the ii and V respectively), if they'd been dominant chords. So, all you've done is changed the chordal qualities on some tritone subs - a reharm of a sub, if you will.

That was my first thought, but it didn't sit quite well within my current understanding of harmony. I'm glad you mentioned it

It is not such a weird thing. The turnaround on "Ladybird" is probably the most famous example. I've heard Wes do similar things too.

Yes! Now that you mention it, I can hear similar ideas popping up in Wes' music. That's yet another mystery solved.

As long as it sounds good, that's what's important. Theory can catch up later.

Peace,
Kevin

Thanks for your post. Now it's off to woodshed for a few more years.

[jckoto3]

Originally Posted by bako

The sonic details of why it sounds good.
4 part // 3 part // 2 part // 1 part combinations

Thanks for that chart, bako. I had separated and played each voice as a single line, but I didn't think to take it as far as you did with the various grouping permutations. Real eye-opener there! I think this technique you posted will be a real asset to "have in the bag" from now on

[bako]

I'm glad you found it helpful.

[Reg]

When I was a kid a Berklee...70's a harmony teacher made me analyze every chord resolving to I... bII, II, bIII etc... all versions, then resolving to II, III etc... took some time and there were many ways to analyze each situation, depending on where the chord could be coming from... possible contexts. It really opened my ears to hearing possibilities and not just first or simplest explanation of harmonic situation. Just some thoughts to pass on... Reg

[bako]

Reg,

Can you expand on this a little bit? Not every chord but perhaps just a few to reveal the methodology and a possible way to organize such an endeavor.

Thanks,
Bako

[JonnyPac]

I love the sound of Parallel keys, etc. Good thread guys! I posted my table on my book thread here a while ago... You might like to look at it. It's titled Borrowing Chords from the Parallel Minor Key and Beyond... lol. kinda sci-fi 2001: Jupiter and Beyond... Anyway it could help too. I loves me some Ladybird.